This profile comment pretty much said it all: https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/members/johnny-b-decent.90/#profile-post-comment-272166
An Analysis: Could Riboku have overthrown the Zhao Monarchy?
- Thread starter Xione
- Start date
You keep mentioning the money, the people, befriending the king etc... for Ryofui as a way to show him more powerful than Riboku which isn't the case
Ryofui had to use those to get to where he was but Riboku achieved it by being awesome on the battlefield. It didn't make Ryofui more influential or powerful than Riboku but they simply got to their positions with different means.
At his peak Riboku was the prime minister, commander in chief, beloved by people and the most famous man in china not to mention having the support of the crown prince and most of the military
Right as the pedo dies we see all the prisoners who opposed him and would have joined Riboku as well
So he had as much power and influence as a Ryofui would have but facing a much more incompetent king and officials than Ei Sei and his faction while also only having to put Ka on the throne and not create a new dynasty which makes it easier compared to Ryofui's plan.
Someone like Renpa would have gladly given a hand as well or could have been welcomed back to help Shibashou and others protect the nation while Riboku deals with the situation
There is some chance it goes to shit but more than likely he would have succeeded, some territory would be lost but not too much when there is guys like Renpa, Shibashou etc.. protecting the borders and after it's all well and done you'll have a much stronger Zhao ready to take back what they lost and then some.
Ryofui had to use those to get to where he was but Riboku achieved it by being awesome on the battlefield. It didn't make Ryofui more influential or powerful than Riboku but they simply got to their positions with different means.
At his peak Riboku was the prime minister, commander in chief, beloved by people and the most famous man in china not to mention having the support of the crown prince and most of the military
Right as the pedo dies we see all the prisoners who opposed him and would have joined Riboku as well
So he had as much power and influence as a Ryofui would have but facing a much more incompetent king and officials than Ei Sei and his faction while also only having to put Ka on the throne and not create a new dynasty which makes it easier compared to Ryofui's plan.
Someone like Renpa would have gladly given a hand as well or could have been welcomed back to help Shibashou and others protect the nation while Riboku deals with the situation
There is some chance it goes to shit but more than likely he would have succeeded, some territory would be lost but not too much when there is guys like Renpa, Shibashou etc.. protecting the borders and after it's all well and done you'll have a much stronger Zhao ready to take back what they lost and then some.
Thanks @TheKnightOfTheSea You're the G!!
Alright, so this pops up on my mind just now. I don't know if @Xione is around anymore but I hope he sees this.
The more I think about it, the chances of Riboku's political rebellion being successful is at its highest during the Sanyou Aftermath arc.
This is just my own speculation so feel free to add to this if y'all want.
So the story goes the same, Riboku defeated Ouki during Bayou, Riboku makes an alliance with Qin to fight Yan, Qin fights Renpa in Sanyou, Qin wins and Renpa gets exiled again.....
EXCEPT that I think Riboku should have personally recruited Renpa in secret. Riboku's information manipulation is one, if not the best in all of China. No information could pass this man at all, proven by how Ousen and Shouheikun have no idea of Riboku's ambush against Kanki in Gian.
Riboku seeks out Renpa in secret before he departs to Chu and says that Riboku needs his help for the succession in exchange for Renpa getting reinstalled into Great Heavens again and he can battle the Qin or whichever state for as much as he wanted.
I don't know if Renpa would get along with Riboku since he is the man who defeated his greatest rival, Ouki though. I assume that Renpa should be smart enough to not bitch about it. There's always a new guy who is bound to be stronger than the previous gen, Ouki admits that Riboku is better than him so Renpa should feel the same way. As long as Renpa etches his name in history, he probably wouldn't care if there are better generals than him. For Renpa, warfare is everything. He doesn't care about anything else as long as he can do battle.
So Riboku and Renpa accepted the deal and Renpa would help Riboku to overthrow the Zhao government which their interests align since Renpa hates the Zhao politicians so much that he called them pigs Lmao. Renpa shouldn't have any problem with Ka being the new king since he is wise and has huge potential.
So Riboku has Renpa, Kochou, his vassals Keisha, SSJ, Bananji, Futei, Kaine against like Chou Kotsu at best Lmao? Not sure about Gakujou, he probably got his ass executed when he failed to capture Renpa or got thrown into prison. So he wouldn't be a factor. If he is still alive and in prison, Riboku will bail him out once his rebellion succeeds. Gakujou would need a huge explanation but Riboku can do that.
And this is just my personal opinion but I think Riboku might get Gyou'Un and Chougaryuu on his side as well. More specifically, Renpa will recruit these two into his army since Rinko and Genpou are dead lol. So Gyou'Un replacing Rinko and CGR replacing Genpou as Renpa's two new Heavenly Kings. I'm sure the Rinshoujo's remnants would understand. So Renpa has RSJ Army and the Zhao army at his disposal.
With the Renpa quest out of the way, Riboku defeats Gekishin of Yan as the story goes. And the Coalition War will still happens.
Now, I did say that Riboku's politic skills are nowhere near like said, Shouheikun and Ryofui. BUT, under the right circumstances and with enough time to prep, I think Riboku can outsmart those two. In fact, he already did it.
During the Coalition War where Ryofui was sweating bucket because the Coalition Alliance between six (or fix actually) was the last thing he would expect.
So I think in the long term, Riboku's politics surpasses even Ryofui's. In a short term and direct political negotiation, Riboku can't beat Ryofui.
Which parallels Riboku's military strategy vs tactics. Riboku's strategy is absolute that surpasses even Ousen himself. While their tactics are the same level.
In conclusion,
Long term politics: Riboku > Ryofui > Shouheikun.
Short term politics: Ryofui > Shouheikun > Riboku.
With all the pieces together, Riboku have enough material to starts an uprising against Zhao Monarchy while not to worry about getting attacked by other states as the Coalition Alliance is in effect.
Qin can't start an attack on Zhao since they just finished their war with Wei, and Wei is out for blood due to Sanyou. And if by chance that Yan wants to break the alliance and tries to take Zhao lands while Riboku's uprising happening.....
Yeah Ordo has to deal with Shibashou Lmao. So Riboku doesn't have to worry about Yan attacking Zhao since Big Goliath Shiba is there to defend anytime.
I think that's about the plot holes I covered to make this work. I could be forgetting some but y'all experienced Kingdom readers can fill me in on that.
TL; DR:
- Riboku recruiting Renpa into his rebellion and get Gyou'Un and CGR for Renpa's Army.
- Riboku, Renpa and Kochou Armies are MORE than enough for Chou Kotsu da foolish son of Chou Katsu who failed miserably.
- Riboku's long term politics > Ryofui's and Shouheikun's due to Coalition Alliance.
- Riboku doesn't need to worry about Qin or Yan attacking Zhao due to Wei on Qin's ass and Shibashou is there for Ordo's cheeks.
Once Riboku succeeded and Ka become the new king, first thing Ka would do is sending Zhao Armies to Kankoku Pass. Basically Coalition arc but Renpa and RSJ's Army are there this time around. I'm not sure if Renpa and RSJ's remnants are enough to beat Qin though. On the off chance that Qin does fall, Ryofui is ready to ditch Qin since I think Ryofui was trying to offer Eisei's head in exchange for his safety iirc. I'm also not sure if the Coalition Army will let Ryofui live or not. This is the only question that I don't have an answer to.
But other than that, this is MY strategy on how Riboku could succeed in the Zhao uprising. Would love to hear y'all opinions!
@Lee Ba Shou @Owl Ki @Bullet @RayanOO @Cichy @FutureWarrior123 @Pirao @Bepo and whoever else that I missed.
Alright, so this pops up on my mind just now. I don't know if @Xione is around anymore but I hope he sees this.
The more I think about it, the chances of Riboku's political rebellion being successful is at its highest during the Sanyou Aftermath arc.
This is just my own speculation so feel free to add to this if y'all want.
So the story goes the same, Riboku defeated Ouki during Bayou, Riboku makes an alliance with Qin to fight Yan, Qin fights Renpa in Sanyou, Qin wins and Renpa gets exiled again.....
EXCEPT that I think Riboku should have personally recruited Renpa in secret. Riboku's information manipulation is one, if not the best in all of China. No information could pass this man at all, proven by how Ousen and Shouheikun have no idea of Riboku's ambush against Kanki in Gian.
Riboku seeks out Renpa in secret before he departs to Chu and says that Riboku needs his help for the succession in exchange for Renpa getting reinstalled into Great Heavens again and he can battle the Qin or whichever state for as much as he wanted.
I don't know if Renpa would get along with Riboku since he is the man who defeated his greatest rival, Ouki though. I assume that Renpa should be smart enough to not bitch about it. There's always a new guy who is bound to be stronger than the previous gen, Ouki admits that Riboku is better than him so Renpa should feel the same way. As long as Renpa etches his name in history, he probably wouldn't care if there are better generals than him. For Renpa, warfare is everything. He doesn't care about anything else as long as he can do battle.
So Riboku and Renpa accepted the deal and Renpa would help Riboku to overthrow the Zhao government which their interests align since Renpa hates the Zhao politicians so much that he called them pigs Lmao. Renpa shouldn't have any problem with Ka being the new king since he is wise and has huge potential.
So Riboku has Renpa, Kochou, his vassals Keisha, SSJ, Bananji, Futei, Kaine against like Chou Kotsu at best Lmao? Not sure about Gakujou, he probably got his ass executed when he failed to capture Renpa or got thrown into prison. So he wouldn't be a factor. If he is still alive and in prison, Riboku will bail him out once his rebellion succeeds. Gakujou would need a huge explanation but Riboku can do that.
And this is just my personal opinion but I think Riboku might get Gyou'Un and Chougaryuu on his side as well. More specifically, Renpa will recruit these two into his army since Rinko and Genpou are dead lol. So Gyou'Un replacing Rinko and CGR replacing Genpou as Renpa's two new Heavenly Kings. I'm sure the Rinshoujo's remnants would understand. So Renpa has RSJ Army and the Zhao army at his disposal.
With the Renpa quest out of the way, Riboku defeats Gekishin of Yan as the story goes. And the Coalition War will still happens.
Now, I did say that Riboku's politic skills are nowhere near like said, Shouheikun and Ryofui. BUT, under the right circumstances and with enough time to prep, I think Riboku can outsmart those two. In fact, he already did it.
During the Coalition War where Ryofui was sweating bucket because the Coalition Alliance between six (or fix actually) was the last thing he would expect.
So I think in the long term, Riboku's politics surpasses even Ryofui's. In a short term and direct political negotiation, Riboku can't beat Ryofui.
Which parallels Riboku's military strategy vs tactics. Riboku's strategy is absolute that surpasses even Ousen himself. While their tactics are the same level.
In conclusion,
Long term politics: Riboku > Ryofui > Shouheikun.
Short term politics: Ryofui > Shouheikun > Riboku.
With all the pieces together, Riboku have enough material to starts an uprising against Zhao Monarchy while not to worry about getting attacked by other states as the Coalition Alliance is in effect.
Qin can't start an attack on Zhao since they just finished their war with Wei, and Wei is out for blood due to Sanyou. And if by chance that Yan wants to break the alliance and tries to take Zhao lands while Riboku's uprising happening.....
Yeah Ordo has to deal with Shibashou Lmao. So Riboku doesn't have to worry about Yan attacking Zhao since Big Goliath Shiba is there to defend anytime.
I think that's about the plot holes I covered to make this work. I could be forgetting some but y'all experienced Kingdom readers can fill me in on that.
TL; DR:
- Riboku recruiting Renpa into his rebellion and get Gyou'Un and CGR for Renpa's Army.
- Riboku, Renpa and Kochou Armies are MORE than enough for Chou Kotsu da foolish son of Chou Katsu who failed miserably.
- Riboku's long term politics > Ryofui's and Shouheikun's due to Coalition Alliance.
- Riboku doesn't need to worry about Qin or Yan attacking Zhao due to Wei on Qin's ass and Shibashou is there for Ordo's cheeks.
Once Riboku succeeded and Ka become the new king, first thing Ka would do is sending Zhao Armies to Kankoku Pass. Basically Coalition arc but Renpa and RSJ's Army are there this time around. I'm not sure if Renpa and RSJ's remnants are enough to beat Qin though. On the off chance that Qin does fall, Ryofui is ready to ditch Qin since I think Ryofui was trying to offer Eisei's head in exchange for his safety iirc. I'm also not sure if the Coalition Army will let Ryofui live or not. This is the only question that I don't have an answer to.
But other than that, this is MY strategy on how Riboku could succeed in the Zhao uprising. Would love to hear y'all opinions!
@Lee Ba Shou @Owl Ki @Bullet @RayanOO @Cichy @FutureWarrior123 @Pirao @Bepo and whoever else that I missed.