Speculations Enies Lobby's original impact

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Borasey79

#1
#1
Ever since Oda claimed that he'd envisioned OP to last only five years, before he received the green-light from the higher-ups to stretch the story, many people have surveyed the manga's main plot points, trimming the fat, and attempting to see what the original pacing and arc direction would've looked like.

According to the majority, Enies Lobby was supposed to be the midpoint of OP, and it makes sense.

This is the first time the WG assumes the official role of antagonist of the SHs, with Luffy acknowledging them as such, almost setting up a new Alabasta Saga, hopping from island to island with the goal of kicking the Gorosei's asses by the end.

Likely, the gears were a later addition also, meaning that Luffy would have awakened his fruit (with Hito Hito reveal et al) in his struggle to save Robin.

Conceptually, Enies Lobby was supposed to be the most stacked arc in terms of revelations and longterm plot points. It would've also altered the in-universe perception of the SHs, perhaps already at this stage elevating the crew at an unofficial Yonko status.

In the same arc, the WG would've witnessed:
- Luffy come from the dead as Sun God Nika;
- Zoro triple himself, claiming ownership over hell;
- Chopper transform into a mini Oars;
- Demon Child Robin & The-Carpenter-Who-Can-Build-Pluton Franky swear allegiance to Luffy;
- even their very ship develop a spirit and come to the SHs' rescue.

Original Enies Lobby would've dwarfed the Paramount War in terms of fan reactions, especially if Nika's reveal would've also prompted Imu's introduction already by chapter 400+

It boggles my mind to think what a lore-heavy arc this could've been.
 
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Borasey79

#3
#3
Herrera95 said:
There is no universe in the multi verse that Oda is finishing One Piece in 5 years unless he is dying and letting it incomplete.
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Five definitely not. That was an estimation based both on then Oda's inexperience with how draining the mangaka job would become and on how much he could fit in a chapter. By Arlong Park he was already having more fun with the format.

If you don't consider the debut year, 1997, which was shorter, the 5-year-window was already reached by the time we made it to Jaya. There isn't that much fat to cut out in the early arcs, but even if you have Enies Lobby end within that window, it being the midpoint of the story, means you still have at least five more years. Oda really underestimated how much he had to set up in order to tell what he had to tell.

IMO, by adhering hard to an initial plan, without creating on-the-spot characters which the story doesn't benefit from, and having the aforementioned Nika reveal in EL, OP could've ended around the time we had the timeskip. Imu fight instead of Thriller Bark, Lodestar+Rafter as mini arcs, then the final war after the OP is discovered.
 
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Herrera95

#4
#4
Borasey79 said:
Five definitely not. That was an estimation based both on then Oda's inexperience with how draining the mangaka job would become and on how much he could fit in a chapter. By Arlong Park he was already having more fun with the format.

If you don't consider the debut year, 1997, which was shorter, the 5-year-window was already reached by the time we made it to Jaya. There isn't that much fat to cut out in the early arcs, but even if you have Enies Lobby end within that window, it being the midpoint of the story, means you still have at least five more years. Oda really underestimated how much he had to set up in order to tell what he had to tell.

IMO, by adhering hard to an initial plan, without creating on-the-spot characters which the story doesn't benefit from, and having the aforementioned Nika reveal in EL, OP could've ended around the time we had the timeskip. Imu fight instead of Thriller Bark, Lodestar+Rafter as mini arcs, then the final war after the OP is discovered.
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You just forgot to add the 4 emperors which was Oda initial idea.

Alabasta would be an Emperor. Maybe Skypea another.

Forget Marines and WG they wouldn't be important. Oda initial idea was only focused on Emperors.

Ennies Lobby another emperor. And then Thriller Bark/Sabaody the last one.
 
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Borasey79

#5
#5
Herrera95 said:
You just forgot to add the 4 emperors which was Oda initial idea.

Alabasta would be an Emperor. Maybe Skypea another.

Forget Marines and WG they wouldn't be important. Oda initial idea was only focused on Emperors.

Ennies Lobby another emperor. And then Thriller Bark/Sabaody the last one.
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I didn't forget that: I didn't focus on characters, but arcs. No matter who Luffy would be against, warlord or emperor, I think in the original blueprints the arcs had the same structure and overall aftermaths, give or take some political exceptions.
 
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Herrera95

#7
#7
Borasey79 said:
I didn't forget that: I didn't focus on characters, but arcs. No matter who Luffy would be against, warlord or emperor, I think in the original blueprints the arcs had the same structure and overall aftermaths, give or take some political exceptions.
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Like I said you forgot that because Oda was clear that his idea of 5 year manga included a rookie pirate getting into grand line and fighting pirates called yonkos.
 
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Borasey79

#8
#8
Herrera95 said:
Like I said you forgot that because Oda was clear that his idea of 5 year manga included a rookie pirate getting into grand line and fighting pirates called yonkos.
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I'm saying that warlock, yonko, or gorosei, the "role" of the character matters little in the structure of the arc if said arc is meant to accomplish X. Luffy can face Lucci, Kaido, or Imu: if that's the arc when he awakens the Nika fruit, then that's what's going to happen.

Oda tailored the finer details later on, but Enies Lobby's importance lay in its showing the WG in a frontal antagonistic role and in having Luffy show the WG itself that they should fear him.
 
Xione

Xione

‎
#13
#13
Ennis Lobby wouldn't exist as an arc if Oda followed his original plan which is the story of a kid vs the 4 emperors.

We would be going into multiple yonko arcs, with no relevance given to the World Government.

Oda's plans started changing around the chapter the Warlords got introduced. And then after that once he introduced Dragon in chapter 100, it became a story about a Kid overthrowing a tyrannical World Government, instead of taking out 4 big pirates and becoming Pirate King. And that officially set the story to be 1000+ chapters.

So no clue where folks got Ennis Lobby being the midpoint of the story.
 
Flodor

Flodor

‎
#15
#15
I like to cope on Oda Illuminati Theory.
Enies Lobby was peak because of Official War against World Gov or our terrestrial One World Order.
 
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Borasey79

#16
#16
Xione said:
Ennis Lobby wouldn't exist as an arc if Oda followed his original plan which is the story of a kid vs the 4 emperors.

We would be going into multiple yonko arcs, with no relevance given to the World Government.

Oda's plans started changing around the chapter the Warlords got introduced. And then after that once he introduced Dragon in chapter 100, it became a story about a Kid overthrowing a tyrannical World Government, instead of taking out 4 big pirates and becoming Pirate King. And that officially set the story to be 1000+ chapters.

So no clue where folks got Ennis Lobby being the midpoint of the story.
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Original One Piece wasn't a different story, it just had different/fewer characters. Just because Mihawk was later added to the list of Shichibukai, that doesn't mean that *a* Mihawk didn't exist in the first place. Simply, his role was tailored to the new bit of worldbuilding, but his overall contribution to the story stayed the same.
The pawns change, not the game of chess.
Luffy's original struggle would've been against the Yonkos on his way to the PK title, and therefore the OP, but that doesn't mean that the Marines/WG weren't supposed to play any role in it.
Skypeia wasn't born out of the warlords introduction, but out of Oda's fear of an early cancelation. The arc gives the reader the blueprint as to how the final arc of the series would've gone down, had OP been forced to end prematurely.
There are necessary plot points to touch if you want to tell a story properly, and almost all of what comes pre-EL is this, including the Davy Back Fight. EL is the turning point because it gives more depth to the overarching antagonist that is the WG, at once linking the SHs themselves even more thoroughly to the Void Century via Robin's flashback.
My argument was that, initially, pre-gears and pre-timeskip, this is where Luffy would've become Nika, and perhaps even where we would've gotten the first Imu silhouette.
 
Xione

Xione

‎
#17
#17
Borasey79 said:
Original One Piece wasn't a different story, it just had different/fewer characters. Just because Mihawk was later added to the list of Shichibukai, that doesn't mean that *a* Mihawk didn't exist in the first place. Simply, his role was tailored to the new bit of worldbuilding, but his overall contribution to the story stayed the same.
The pawns change, not the game of chess.
Luffy's original struggle would've been against the Yonkos on his way to the PK title, and therefore the OP, but that doesn't mean that the Marines/WG weren't supposed to play any role in it.
Skypeia wasn't born out of the warlords introduction, but out of Oda's fear of an early cancelation. The arc gives the reader the blueprint as to how the final arc of the series would've gone down, had OP been forced to end prematurely.
There are necessary plot points to touch if you want to tell a story properly, and almost all of what comes pre-EL is this, including the Davy Back Fight. EL is the turning point because it gives more depth to the overarching antagonist that is the WG, at once linking the SHs themselves even more thoroughly to the Void Century via Robin's flashback.
My argument was that, initially, pre-gears and pre-timeskip, this is where Luffy would've become Nika, and perhaps even where we would've gotten the first Imu silhouette.
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- The story was meant to last 5 years and was about the yonko
- Oda tells us he changed the stories when the warlords were added.
Then we can see that the story takes in a whole new level of change when he adds in Dragon to the series. It becomes about Luffy vs the World Government, a journey that would automatically last 1000+ chapters.

Skypea was born out of him adding the Celestial Dragons as the big baddies, after the Warlords.

Why in God's blue earth would Dragon, Marines, WG be there in a story about beating the Yonko that is only lasting 5 years? That would literally a terribly rushed story.
 
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Borasey79

#18
#18
Xione said:
- The story was meant to last 5 years and was about the yonko
- Oda tells us he changed the stories when the warlords were added.
Then we can see that the story takes in a whole new level of change when he adds in Dragon to the series. It becomes about Luffy vs the World Government, a journey that would automatically last 1000+ chapters.

Skypea was born out of him adding the Celestial Dragons as the big baddies, after the Warlords.

Why in God's blue earth would Dragon, Marines, WG be there in a story about beating the Yonko that is only lasting 5 years? That would literally a terribly rushed story.
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Again, the 5 year expectation was unreasonable.
But the plot is there. Luffy defeats the Yonkos one by one, then claims the OP and becomes PK.
And then?
He has to do something with the OP, or if the treasure was initially only necessary for the title, then he has to do something as Pirate King.
I do think Oda had always intended the threat of the WG to grow in the background, while Luffy goes on his adventure, and then comes fully to the forefront once he is PK. Dragon's addition doesn't lenghten the story that much, if he keeps to Wyper's contribution in the conflict against Enel.
 
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