Great Generals Tournament, Losers R2 - Round 1

[Lee Ba Shou]

And now we head to losers again! Loser of this round is Eliminated

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course always welcome but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 1 - Losers R2

Kan Mei

As Kan Mei is a Chu General, he will start this battle with a larger army of 180,000
Deputy General:
General Rinbukun

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Subordinate Commanders:
5,000 Man Commander Kou Yoku

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5,000 Man Commander Haku Rei

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VERSUS

Kan Ki

Kan Ki has a bigger version of the Bandit Army that he brought into Koku You Hills, 100,000 Bandits
Kan Ki will also be reinforce by a standard 50,000 Man Qin Army lead by Qin General Heki

Spoiler

Subordinate Commanders:
Rin Gyoku

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Koku'Ou

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Ma Ron

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Rai Do

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Zen Ou

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Saki

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Location: Koku'You Hills

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Scenario: War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Who Wins and Why?

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @ShinmenTakezo @Den_Den_Mushi @Guan Yu @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher @RayanOO @Ninjashadow0209 @Arara @Hiragaro @Yo Tan Wa @Xione @FaradaySloth etc

 

[Owl Ki]

Kokuyou Hills? Even with nearly double the man power, there is no way Kanmei is winning this. Lol.

The biggest problem here is that there is no one anywhere near capable of matching Kanki for strategy, especially against his unorthodox tactics and especially in a location as favourable to Kanki’s bandit forces as Kokuyou Hills.

This is going to be a long battle of attrition in which the Kanki Army will continually whittle down the Kanmei Army’s numbers and chip away at their morale through their barbaric tactics.

Kanki may even be cheeky enough to either send or lead a strike force to hit a Commander’s HQ. He did it twice during the Sanyou Campaign.

Eventually, it will reach a point where the Kanki Army can overwhelm the Kanmei Army.

For officer matchups, the Kanki Army can easily win certain matchups by double teaming (e.g. Ringyoku and Raido vs Rinbuken) or through Zenou (e.g. Zenou vs Kouyoku).

For Kanmei himself, the bandits will just play dirty. If he gets dog piled by Zenou and his entire clan then he will lose.

Kanki Army wins, mid diff victory that takes a while to achieve.

Edit: I somehow missed the Heki Army’s 50,000 man reinforcements for Kanki. So yeah, Kanki Army wins, low diff victory that takes a while to achieve.

 

[Xione]

Kanki due to the location. Had it been open warfare, wouldve gone with Kanmei.

 

[Blackbeard]

Kanki wins after a long attrition battle. But i don't think Kanmei would be slain, he would just retreat from Kokuyou.

Kokuyou Hills would allow Kanki to utilize his guerilla warfare and irregular hit-and-run tactics to the maximum. I don't think this is a good environment for someone as overconfident and straightforward as Kanmei who is following simple, traditional warfare. If you reread Sanyou (specifically Kaishibou's fight with Kanki's army) you would notice how Kanki's main strategy was to ambush the enemy's wings with a tiny unit, let the Kaishibou army pursue the unit, retreat to a safe place where a trap is waiting for his unit from all sides and decimate it, disguise as Chu soldiers to assassinate commanders, send bags of butchered people to him. Kanki loves attrition warfare, he would never allow Kanmei and Rinbunkun to fight their way, even the most patient instinctual general Keisha was fooled by leaving his position.

Although Kaishibou's physical strength and army were much stronger, he still couldn't catch Kanki even after reaching his HQ. Kanki ended up substantially decreasing his forces killing several commanders and launched a counter ttack. Hot-headed commanders like Kouyoku would get utterly fucked in the forests by Kanki's schemes.

He can also send bags of eyeballs, ears and limbs to Kanmei's HQ for some physiological war to frustrate the Chu troops more lol.

 

[Greenbeard]

Kanki's army won the battle of Koku You hills due to psychological warfare employed by Kanki on Kisui ( although they had a great chance to win the battle of central hills before Kanki decided not to use it)

Chu commanders won't have anything that affects them psychologically in Kokuyou hills.....( Negative Point for Kanki)
Kanki's army are former bandits...They would love to have battlefield as Kokuyou hills but I don't have a clue on how Kanmei's army will react to mountain territory... Unlike Keisha it's nearly impossible for Kanki to slay Kanamei... Even Rinbukun is very powerful in his own right as he toyed with Ouki's commanders....

They have one of the ten bows ( isn't Hakurei one of the ten bows?) He gives Chu a major advantage in this terrain.... I remember how Kyoyen ( general under Renpa directed his army with just bows)....If Hakurei can do that Chu army can coordinate much better than Kanki army....

Even though Kanki has upper hand in strategy...Chu has number of powerhouses who are decent in strategy and are greatly powerful when compared to the powerhouses in Kanki army...I can't think of a victor...

 

[FaradaySloth]

Though yes the location and strategy alone would give Kanki the victory, it's just that Kanmei is too damn arrogant. I cannot imagine his army retreating even when it's obviously losing more on a strategical scale, and I don't think Kanki will be stupid enough to send anyone against Kanmei on a 1v1 duel. Would Kanki even care greatly if he retreated from a battle like this, I don't think it's IC for him to stick around in an obvious "wasting time" battle? This fight would just become too boring because of Chu's stubbornness to admit defeat, so even when all logic decides Kanki would win this easily, given the victory conditions I don't see how Qin wins here unless if they somehow manage to get the vast majority of Chu's army to be killed, if not all of it. Apart from Zenou, Kanki's subordinates shouldn't be better than Kanmei's considering they were getting even'd by the likes of Kisui/Batei & Kinmou/Gakuei, and we still haven't seen the full potential of Kanmei's own three subordinates (though I doubt we'll see them again)

Weird matchup, going against all logic just because of a few people's personalities.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Are we considering Kanmei 3 subordinates that handled the strategies? They might not be at Kanki's level bt i think players are massively underestimating em.

Since they are experienced Generals unlike Karyo Ten who fought her first battle in such field n wasn't able to predict no enemy movements n strategies, and so Kisui brother outsmarted Hi Shin Unit badly and Kanki army was also bested, they got saved the first day due to every man for himself escape strategy. So its not like Kanki army is invincible in such terrain, rather it's Kanki untradtional strategies and Cruelty factor that carries the Army, and i am pretty sure Kanki would still find a way to affect Chu Army psychologically/outsmart em, bt i dont think it would be at such scale as he did with Kisui, plus Kanmei n others are proud brave warriors of Chu.

Kanki wouldn't face em head on, or most likely use distraction to aim for weak spots or General Head itself bt Kanmei, Rin bu kun or Kou Yoku won't be easy to kill.

And its not like i dont like Heki, i do bt Kanki might end up slaying Heki himself for his blunders.

Once it's hill battle, brute strength and usual strategies can also come into play. And so, Kanmei stands good chnaces of victory.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

I’m surprised how many people think Kanki wins this lol. I think this matchup is a bad one for him, as I doubt any of his tactics will have a major effect on Kanmei or Rinbukun. At best, his trickery will have a negative effect on the morale of his enemy, but in the case of the Chu Army, I think this would more just piss them off than anything else.

Kanki’s tactics are really only good against enemies that he can afford to fight long term. He needs to wear their morale down and then crush them afterwards, but I think Kanmei and his mighty Chu Army, even with worn down morale, will defeat Kanki and his bandits pretty convincingly. Kanki doesn’t have a single subordinate that can reliably slay Kanmei, I think even Zenou doesn’t push him past high diff in a 1v1 duel, and Kanki’s subordinates aren’t strong enough to push Yoku and Haku Rei very far.

I think the kanmei takes a weird victory, high/extreme diff overall.