Great Generals Tournament, Winners R1 - Round 4

Who Wins?

  • Ko Shou

    Votes: 6 42.9%
  • Rin Shou Jou

    Votes: 8 57.1%

  • Total voters
    14

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
The Old Strategic Gods Collide! I'm really glad we got to see this matchup, and no I did not plan for this, though it makes an excellent matchup nonetheless lol.

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course encouraged but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 4 - Winners R1

Ko Shou

-Ko Shou has a Qin Army of 100,000 men
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders:
Shou Hei Kun (who has 1,000 of his Black Cavalry Corps lead by Hyou Shiga), Kai Oku, Mou Ki.


VERSUS

Rin Shou Jou

-Rin Shou Jou has a Zhao Army of 100K
-Subordinate Generals:
Gyou'Un (who has 2,000 man Rai'Un as well as the Ten Spears)
Chou Garyuu

Location: Bayou Outskirts
Scenario: Rin Shou Jou begins on the Zhao Side. Ko Shou begins on the Qin side.
War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Who Wins and Why?

 
#4
KoShou takes this. KoShou was too good as strategist and he was the one who forms the strategy and plans for Qin six. Even though details available about him is too low in comparison to RSJ but still putting him around RSJ level if not above.

Now why I'm sure it's KoShou's win is due to the presence of ShouHeikun. That man is a beast whether considering his martial might or tactics or formations.

KoShou vs RSJ might be stalemate if not win for either of them but SHK alone can destroy CGR or GyouUn or anyone else in vassals of RSJ.

Btw @Admiral Lee Hung is OuSen also a part of KoShou army ????:afrokappa:
 
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#5
This one is extremely difficult. While Ko Shou had hype of being the mastermind behind Q6 GG actions, Rin Shou Jo also made himself Three Great Heaven Generals based on Tactical Skills in battles and not martial Arts. Hinting they both were epictome of War tactics and strategies.

Since Ko Shou is mastermind behind all of Qin 6 GG actions and also trained in Shou hei kun, i will be willing to give him edge here, bt very small tho, or they are even match.

So imo the battle will be decided by their Subordinates n Army,

Rin Shou Jo originally had 10 deputies/heroes including Gyou un and Chou Garyuu, who both have shown to be much capable General when it comes to battle strategies and martial arts, with em both giving Ou Hon n Shin good match and outsmarting em at times. So having 10 such members, his Army collectively could be one of the Strongests.

While for Ko Shou we don't have much info on his subordinates bt that he trained Shou Hei kun or he was one of his vassals, who again is currently one of the Best Generals in Kingdom verse. Intellectually Riboku matvh and strength wise past Moubu's.

Bt since we are only counting Gyou un and Chou Garyuu here with 10 spears and Shou Hei kun, Kai Oku and Mou Ki, it again results in Stalemate, or a very close match.

Individually Shou Hei kun is clearly above any of em, bt to face both of em, including their 10 spears, he would be at disadvantage. Kai Oku n Mou ki(below Ou hon n Mou ten) are again capable strategists, bt martial arts wise their side is lacking somewhat in comparison. So i am bit inclined towards Rin Sho Jo winning this with a hair.
 
#6
The reasons why RSJ wins this one:
1. Ko Shou might be the strategist great of Qin’s GG but RSJ too is a strategist great of GG who has hype greater than of Renpa himself. His strategy mind is shown with his simple strategy shown in his statement against Ouki whom he led into a narrow river border just to have a talk with him. Him who can have friend and foe alike dance in his tunes.

2. As for the followers, Shou Hei Kun is a mighty beast indeed but let’s not forget that Gyou’Un once represented the military might of Zhao who also has the ten spears at his disposal. Chogaryuu is also a great strategist on his own right. We’ve all seen how those two wrecked Qin army in Shukai plains. I can’t think of any easy way for Qin army to outsmart these two at once. Let alone at the times when their beloved RSJ is leading the charge .
3. Numbers of soilders are even which means no general is getting an easier upper hand due to sheer number advantage.
Just cause someone is from Qin’s 6 doesn’t mean they are invincible and can’t be brought down. Him teaching SHK and Ousen doesn’t put him above them.
RSJ for the win..!!
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#7
I was very torn with this matchup initially, but after giving it some thought I think I can say confidently that Ko Shou will be the one to win this one. Now if Rin Shou Jou actually had access to all 10 of his heroes, I think he's winning this one for sure, but as we do not know what the other 8 of his Generals looked like or what their strength levels were, restricting him to only Chou Garyuu and Gyou'Un makes this a win for Ko Shou, for a few different reasons.

Firstly, when we're comparing Rin Shou Jou's hype to Ko Shou's (since we know little of either) I think it's safe to say both are basically equal. As @Dark Admiral has pointed out, Rin Shou Jou appeared to have been an equal to Ren Pa (not superior), but Ko Shou was hyped as being the strategic mastermind behind the Qin 6:

When you consider the fact that Gyou'Un thought that RSJ and Ren Pa would've eliminated the Qin 6 of they teamed up, the fact that Ko Shou was rumored to have been the mind behind all the Qin 6 roughly balances them out at strategists. I don't think either of them would get the advantage either way, though if I had to give it to one of them frankly I'd give it to Ko Shou given that Rin Shou Jou died young and Ko Shou appeared to have much more battlefield experience.

Now, when we compare subordinates, I can confidently say that Shou Hei Kun is 100% capable of slaying Gyou'Un. In my opinion, in terms of overall ability, Shou Hei Kun is the strongest subordinate general in this tournament. Not only is his intellect the stuff of legend, but his martial might has been hyped as being on or above Moubu level multiple times (NOT his brute strength, just his overall combat ability), perhaps most badassly here:

And even when Shou Hei Kun had given up his role as a fighting General to lead the Qin Army, Kai Oku still believed that his overall combat strength was close to Mou Bu's:

Gyou'Un is a complete freak, but if there's one area that he appears to be lacking in, it's his Martial Skill as Ouhon was able to take advantage of this on two separate occasions wihich ultimately lead to Gyou'Un's death.

Ironically, this:

Looks eerily similar to this:

And is a great way to illustrate the gap in combat ability between Gyou'Un and Shou Hei Kun. I believe Shou Hei Kun is 100% capable of slaying Gyou'Un and would slay him more often than not in battle.

Now, Gyou'Un is a tricky tactician, capable of completely bodying most competent strategists, but Shou Hei Kun is not most competent strategists, he is someone who's strategic ability is on par with Ou Sen and Ri Boku, so Gyou'Un will at the very least not be overwhelming Shou Hei Kun in a contest of strategy, though I do think he'd give the Chief some trouble.

As for the Rai'Un and the Ten Spears, they would be a lot of trouble but I think their presence is mostly nullified due to Shou Hei Kun's Hyoushiga cavalry:

Sure there are twice as many Rai'Un as them, but numbers only really matter in attrition warfare, and Shou Hei Kun vs Gyou'Un would not be a war of attrition, if for no other reason than Shou Hei Kun would recognize this problem and aim to slay Gyou'Un quickly.

And things brings us to the overall problem for Rin Shou Jou in this matchup.

Ko Shou and Rin Shou Jou are equals.

Shou Hei Kun and Gyou'Un are not equals. Gyou'Un is very strong, but Shou Hei Kun has, somehow, reached the same level as the greatest minds in the series, while simultaneously reaching the strength of the greatest warriors in the series. He and Gyou'Un are not equals, in fact I could see a case being made for Shou Hei Kun himself being > Ko Shou or RSJ lol. And that's the big difference maker here.

As for Chou Garyuu, he doesn't change too much in this matchup tbh. He is stronger than Kai Oku and the rest sure, but even if he and Gyou'Un were to double-team Shou Hei Kun, I'm not sure what kind of effect this would even have. Only in a scenario where he and Gyou'Un tried to slay Shou Hei Kun at literally the exact same time would they have a shot at defeating him, and forgive me for making what some might consider to be a stretch argument, but:

Even this is not a guaranteed win. We saw that Akou was able to hold his own for quite some time against Ba Nan Ji and Gyou'Un and even dealt some heavy blows to Ba Nan Ji,

And Ba Nan Ji is > Chou Garyuu, while Shou Hei Kun is > Akou.

But I think this scenario would never really come to pass, Shou Hei Kun would foresee this happening if they attempted it and would not put himself in harms way as Akou did, he would have some counter strategy prepared to fall back and separate them for 1v1 slaying.

So yes. Overall, Ko Shou and Rin Shou Jou are equals with the RSJ army having no real answer to Shou Hei Kun.

Ko Shou extreme diffs.
 
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#8
I was very torn with this matchup initially, but after giving it some thought I think I can say confidently that Ko Shou will be the one to win this one. Now if Rin Shou Jou actually had access to all 10 of his heroes, I think he's winning this one for sure, but as we do not know what the other 8 of his Generals looked like or what their strength levels were, restricting him to only Chou Garyuu and Gyou'Un makes this a win for Ko Shou, for a few different reasons.

Firstly, when we're comparing Rin Shou Jou's hype to Ko Shou's (since we know little of either) I think it's safe to say both are basically equal. As @Dark Admiral has pointed out, Rin Shou Jou appeared to have been an equal to Ren Pa (not superior), but Ko Shou was hyped as being the strategic mastermind behind the Qin 6:

When you consider the fact that Gyou'Un thought that RSJ and Ren Pa would've eliminated the Qin 6 of they teamed up, the fact that Ko Shou was rumored to have been the mind behind all the Qin 6 roughly balances them out at strategists. I don't think either of them would get the advantage either way, though if I had to give it to one of them frankly I'd give it to Ko Shou given that Rin Shou Jou died young and Ko Shou appeared to have much more battlefield experience.

Now, when we compare subordinates, I can confidently say that Shou Hei Kun is 100% capable of slaying Gyou'Un. In my opinion, in terms of overall ability, Shou Hei Kun is the strongest subordinate general in this tournament. Not only is his intellect the stuff of legend, but his martial might has been hyped as being on or above Moubu level multiple times (NOT his brute strength, just his overall combat ability), perhaps most badassly here:

And even when Shou Hei Kun had given up his role as a fighting General to lead the Qin Army, Kai Oku still believed that his overall combat strength was close to Mou Bu's:

Gyou'Un is a complete freak, but if there's one area that he appears to be lacking in, it's his Martial Skill as Ouhon was able to take advantage of this on two separate occasions wihich ultimately lead to Gyou'Un's death.

Ironically, this:

Looks eerily similar to this:

And is a great way to illustrate the gap in combat ability between Gyou'Un and Shou Hei Kun. I believe Shou Hei Kun is 100% capable of slaying Gyou'Un and would slay him more often than not in battle.

Now, Gyou'Un is a tricky tactician, capable of completely bodying most competent strategists, but Shou Hei Kun is not most competent strategists, he is someone who's strategic ability is on par with Ou Sen and Ri Boku, so Gyou'Un will at the very least not be overwhelming Shou Hei Kun in a contest of strategy, though I do think he'd give the Chief some trouble.

As for the Rai'Un and the Ten Spears, they would be a lot of trouble but I think their presence is mostly nullified due to Shou Hei Kun's Hyoushiga cavalry:

Sure there are twice as many Rai'Un as them, but numbers only really matter in attrition warfare, and Shou Hei Kun vs Gyou'Un would not be a war of attrition, if for no other reason than Shou Hei Kun would recognize this problem and aim to slay Gyou'Un quickly.

And things brings us to the overall problem for Rin Shou Jou in this matchup.

Ko Shou and Rin Shou Jou are equals.

Shou Hei Kun and Gyou'Un are not equals. Gyou'Un is very strong, but Shou Hei Kun has, somehow, reached the same level as the greatest minds in the series, while simultaneously reaching the strength of the greatest warriors in the series. He and Gyou'Un are not equals, in fact I could see a case being made for Shou Hei Kun himself being > Ko Shou or RSJ lol. And that's the big difference maker here.

As for Chou Garyuu, he doesn't change too much in this matchup tbh. He is stronger than Kai Oku and the rest sure, but even if he and Gyou'Un were to double-team Shou Hei Kun, I'm not sure what kind of effect this would even have. Only in a scenario where he and Gyou'Un tried to slay Shou Hei Kun at literally the exact same time would they have a shot at defeating him, and forgive me for making what some might consider to be a stretch argument, but:

Even this is not a guaranteed win. We saw that Akou was able to hold his own for quite some time against Ba Nan Ji and Gyou'Un and even dealt some heavy blows to Ba Nan Ji,

And Ba Nan Ji is > Chou Garyuu, while Shou Hei Kun is > Akou.

But I think this scenario would never really come to pass, Shou Hei Kun would foresee this happening if they attempted it and would not put himself in harms way as Akou did, he would have some counter strategy prepared to fall back and separate them for 1v1 slaying.

So yes. Overall, Ko Shou and Rin Shou Jou are equals with the RSJ army having no real answer to Shou Hei Kun.

Ko Shou extreme diffs.
Chou garyuu can be the brain and Gyu’Un be the muscle to slay SHK. There are numerous ways to slay an opposing General apart from taking them head on. IMO
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#9
Chou garyuu can be the brain and Gyu’Un be the muscle to slay SHK. There are numerous ways to slay an opposing General apart from taking them head on. IMO
Neither are sufficient. Chou Garyuu is weaker than Shou Hei Kun as a tactician while Gyou’Un is weaker in terms of combat ability.

Sure there are many ways to slay an enemy on the battlefield, but you have to actually be able to outwit an enemy to slay them using methods aside from martial might, and Chou Garyuu and Gyou’Un are simply not capable of doing that to Shou Hei Kun.
 
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#12
If the Shouheikun who acts as the underling of Koshou in this matchup is the Shouheikun we see in the manga (I mean I suppose he is lol), then RSJ stands absolutely no chance whatsoever of winning this. No way in hell.

When comparing Koshou and RSJ, they are probably equals outright or as close as it gets. It's essentially 50/50 here.

The huge ass, galactical sized problem for Zhao is Shouheikun. Shouheikun is a character so massively hyped that you can argue he is outright even > Koshou/RSJ talent wise. At the very least, it cannot be denied that he plays in that field. Gyou’Un (also with his ten spears) and Chou Garyuu are both great subordinates to have but here it's going to be hell on earth for them.

Either RSJ outright retreats or the Zhao end up getting dismantled. In any case, an L.
 
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