Great Generals Tournament, Winners R1 - Round 6

[Lee Ba Shou]

Since last round was a complete and utter stomp lol:

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course encouraged but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 6 - Winners R1

Earl Shi

-Earl Shi has a Wei Army of 100,000 including 5,000 Wei War Chariots

VERSUS

Shi Ba Sou

-Shi Ba Sou has a Zhao Army of 100,000 including his 5,000 Seika defenders

Location: Bayou Outskirts

Spoiler

Scenario: Earl Shi begins on the Zhao Side. Shi Ba Sou begins on the Qin side.
War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Who Wins and Why?

Spoiler: Tags

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @ShinmenTakezo @Den_Den_Mushi @Guan Yu @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Shanks @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @ShinmenTakezo @Den_Den_Mushi @Guan Yu @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher @RayanOO @Ninjashadow0209 @Arara

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Damn, people really buy into the Shibasou hype lol. I suppose I should've seen this coming with Shibasou beating Kyou in pools lol.

But Earl Shi is my favorite Wei General, and I shall not let him be defeated without coming to his defense!

On top of being an absolute prodigy since his youth:

Spoiler

Shi Ei was thrown into suicide battle after suicide battle in a genuine attempt from Shi Tai to see him die on the battlefield:

Spoiler

And yet:

Spoiler

Shi Ei survived suicide mission after suicide mission and his Spear became known as the Best in all of China. In fact, Ouhon would later state that there isn't a single practitioner of the Spear alive who does not know the name of Earl Shi of Wei.

And indeed, Shi Ei's spear became so violently powerful, so remorselessly destructive, and so accustomed to killing that not even the Elite Gyoku Hou Unit could actually even get close to him:

Spoiler

As his spear moes them down by the dozens before most of them even realize that they have been slain.

Earl Shi has the highest (known) Top Tier General Kill Count of any Great General in the entire Kingdom Manga:

Spoiler

With his Kill Count of 3 Wei Fire Dragons being matched only by Houken, the Martial God.

And before thinking that the 3 Great Generals that Shi Ei slayed were probably not Martial Generals, just take one look at Tai Ro Ji:

Spoiler

A man with a monstrously hulking frame, known for being a very violent man, is surely to be a heavily martial general.

On top of that, Shi Ei is actually a very strong tactician:

Spoiler

As one might imagine from someone who reached the pinnacle of General-ship via surviving countless suicide missions before he had even reached a rank of authority in the Wei Military.

Now, I ask you:

Is Shibasou's hype really so great that he deserves the W over not just Great General Kyou, but Shi Ei who reached the Martial Pinnacle as well as the man who has actually slain more Great Generals than any other known character in Kingdom aside from the literal strongest character in the Manga? Shibasou, who's only hype is that he is strong enough in warfare to simply hold the rank that Shi Ei held for years?

I for one, do not think so lol.

@Arara @Guan Yu @NeutralWatcher @Blackbeard @Dark Admiral @Bullet

 

[Dark Admiral]

Shi Ba Shou gets the win for me in this battle. And let me break it down on why he takes the W;
1. Earl Shi is a beast in his own might. I actually think of him as Ouhon on steroid and weed combined but Shi Ba Shou is also a GG title worthy candidate who too had proven his might by stopping the 20k Yan soldiers with his mere 5K soldiers. We have not seen much of him but that alone feat is worthy of giving him the benefit of doubt.
2. As @Admiral Lee Hung mentioned Earl Shi is a great tactician, but putting a total halt on the march of 20K soldiers with just 5K soldiers requires a hell lot of tactics and strategy than to stall an army which is already at disadvantage.
The other GG of Yan Ordo commented on him as a Fierce Tiger. He was approached by the Zhao tops to become the Three Great Heavens, that puts him on the level of RSJ, Renpa, Riboku and Houken. I'm not saying he is exceeding them but to be summoned by the King himself for the Third Seat of 3GH sure says something. And him declining the post is almost on par with "Hands in the Pocket" level of awesomeness.
Finally, Riboku and Ba Nan Ji were both relieved to hear about him riding off to stop Yan's troops movement with his personal army (5K to be precise) lol. Since all he has is feat of Seika City defense against Yan's Ordo, I wanked tf outta it. But, for me that's a biggest feat than to dying off in the first real time (current timeline in the manga) battle against the young and inexperienced Ou Hon of Qin in an advantageous battle.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Shi Ba Shou gets the win for me in this battle. And let me break it down on why he takes the W;
1. Earl Shi is a beast in his own might. I actually think of him as Ouhon on steroid and weed combined but Shi Ba Shou is also a GG title worthy candidate who too had proven his might by stopping the 20k Yan soldiers with his mere 5K soldiers. We have not seen much of him but that alone feat is worthy of giving him the benefit of doubt.
2. As @Admiral Lee Hung mentioned Earl Shi is a great tactician, but putting a total halt on the march of 20K soldiers with just 5K soldiers requires a hell lot of tactics and strategy than to stall an army which is already at disadvantage.
The other GG of Yan Ordo commented on him as a Fierce Tiger. He was approached by the Zhao tops to become the Three Great Heavens, that puts him on the level of RSJ, Renpa, Riboku and Houken. I'm not saying he is exceeding them but to be summoned by the King himself for the Third Seat of 3GH sure says something. And him declining the post is almost on par with "Hands in the Pocket" level of awesomeness.
Finally, Riboku and Ba Nan Ji were both relieved to hear about him riding off to stop Yan's troops movement with his personal army (5K to be precise) lol. Since all he has is feat of Seika City defense against Yan's Ordo, I wanked tf outta it. But, for me that's a biggest feat than to dying off in the first real time (current timeline in the manga) battle against the young and inexperienced Ou Hon of Qin in an advantageous battle.

1. An awesome feat, but why does that give him the benefit of the doubt over Shi Ei? Shi Ei won suicide missions in which his entire squad was butchered save for himself, and he still won the battle. And this was before he even reached the rank of Fire Dragon. What other General in all of Kingdom can say something like that? Stopping an army of 20K with only 5K troops is pretty insignificant compared to that tbh, ShouHeiKun actually defeated an army of 10K with only 1K, and unlike with Shibasou, SHK actually slayed the enemy general unlike with Ordo who tactically retreated. And even SHK’s feat wasn’t as impressive as Earl Shi winning multiple suicide missions before attaining the rank of General.

2. See point 1 lol. Earl Shi isn’t a phenomenal tactician but he is capable enough to still reach Great General caliber using his tactical ability and overwhelming martial supremacy.

Keep in mind, Earl Shi’s name rings throughout all of China while even the younger generations of Zhao don’t know who Shibasou even is.

It’s like I said, Shibasou stopping Ordo’s 20K with 5K is a strong feat but it’s not even the best “smaller army beats bigger army” feat in Kingdom. That feat goes to SHK who won a battle with a 10:1 disadvantage while Shibasou merely benefited from Ordo retreating to stop Riboku plundering the cities he had just captured.

Again, neither feat compares to Shi Ei single handedly surviving battles where his entire squad was butchered, as well as Shi Ei personally slaying 3 Wei Fire Dragons.

Keep in mind, the lie spread that Renpa killed one of them, meaning that Renpa’s hype literally benefited from a feat that Shi Ei was the one who actually accomplished lol.

So yeah, Shibasou’s feat against Ordo is nothing compared to what pre-General Shi Ei did on the regular.

 

[Blackbeard]

Damn, people really buy into the Shibasou hype lol. I suppose I should've seen this coming with Shibasou beating Kyou in pools lol.

But Earl Shi is my favorite Wei General, and I shall not let him be defeated without coming to his defense!

On top of being an absolute prodigy since his youth:

Spoiler

Shi Ei was thrown into suicide battle after suicide battle in a genuine attempt from Shi Tai to see him die on the battlefield:

Spoiler

And yet:

Spoiler

Shi Ei survived suicide mission after suicide mission and his Spear became known as the Best in all of China. In fact, Ouhon would later state that there isn't a single practitioner of the Spear alive who does not know the name of Earl Shi of Wei.

And indeed, Shi Ei's spear became so violently powerful, so remorselessly destructive, and so accustomed to killing that not even the Elite Gyoku Hou Unit could actually even get close to him:

Spoiler

As his spear moes them down by the dozens before most of them even realize that they have been slain.

Earl Shi has the highest (known) Top Tier General Kill Count of any Great General in the entire Kingdom Manga:

Spoiler

With his Kill Count of 3 Wei Fire Dragons being matched only by Houken, the Martial God.

And before thinking that the 3 Great Generals that Shi Ei slayed were probably not Martial Generals, just take one look at Tai Ro Ji:

Spoiler

A man with a monstrously hulking frame, known for being a very violent man, is surely to be a heavily martial general.

On top of that, Shi Ei is actually a very strong tactician:

Spoiler

As one might imagine from someone who reached the pinnacle of General-ship via surviving countless suicide missions before he had even reached a rank of authority in the Wei Military.

Now, I ask you:

Is Shibasou's hype really so great that he deserves the W over not just Great General Kyou, but Shi Ei who reached the Martial Pinnacle as well as the man who has actually slain more Great Generals than any other known character in Kingdom aside from the literal strongest character in the Manga? Shibasou, who's only hype is that he is strong enough in warfare to simply hold the rank that Shi Ei held for years?

I for one, do not think so lol.

@Arara @Guan Yu @NeutralWatcher @Blackbeard @Dark Admiral @Bullet

It's just bullshitery if i tried to logically explain why SBS emerges victorious here with him having only 1 page of panel time, lol. but we all realize Earl Shi's claim of winning looks better for now, though the impression Hara gave me implies that SBS is someone who, along with Kantan's Guardian Deity, would be the final Zhao obstacle for Qin before the state of Zhao falls. from history records:

Spoiler

he was an important Zhao general during Qin's final invasion and together with Riboku he protected Zhao from invaders until Riboku was executed by the king, striping Shibashou of his position as well. ( Yes, iirc Sima Shang survived the Zhao conquest )

though I'm willing to take my L if Hara decided to marginalize SBS to be just another Keisha, lol

About Earl Shi's combat strength, the points you stated are noteworthy but i feel they are subjective to Earl Shi here and don't undermine Shibashou's portrayal since we've yet to see his talent in combat, and Earl Shi/Ouhon's speciality IS their unmatched spearmanship. Zhao's three heavens evenly matched Qin's best warfare prodigies, meanwhile Wei's seven dragons simply didn't strike me as a group that can stalemate Qin's 6GG ( Renpa single handedly took on 2 ). Wei's 7 were only stated to have fought and survived encounters with them. aside of Chou Sha who hasn't shown anything yet; Renpa, Riboku, Houken and Rin Shou Jo were massively better and FAR MORE successful than the shown Wei generals ( if we talk about the category each one of them specialize in ) hence why i don't hold Earl Shi's killing streak in high regard, Hara simply hasn't investigated much into the three murdered Wei GGs.

I like how matches here have many other factors which lead to different ways of thinking, @Admiral Lee Hung going with the classic organized way of calculating feats/hype while I'm intuitively assuming with some historical shit, lol. i could definitely be wrong but i still firmly believe that ( especially after Houken's death at Shukai Plains ) Shibashou is the next big Zhao antagonist.

 

[Dark Admiral]

1. An awesome feat, but why does that give him the benefit of the doubt over Shi Ei? Shi Ei won suicide missions in which his entire squad was butchered save for himself, and he still won the battle. And this was before he even reached the rank of Fire Dragon. What other General in all of Kingdom can say something like that? Stopping an army of 20K with only 5K troops is pretty insignificant compared to that tbh, ShouHeiKun actually defeated an army of 10K with only 1K, and unlike with Shibasou, SHK actually slayed the enemy general unlike with Ordo who tactically retreated. And even SHK’s feat wasn’t as impressive as Earl Shi winning multiple suicide missions before attaining the rank of General.

2. See point 1 lol. Earl Shi isn’t a phenomenal tactician but he is capable enough to still reach Great General caliber using his tactical ability and overwhelming martial supremacy.

Keep in mind, Earl Shi’s name rings throughout all of China while even the younger generations of Zhao don’t know who Shibasou even is.

It’s like I said, Shibasou stopping Ordo’s 20K with 5K is a strong feat but it’s not even the best “smaller army beats bigger army” feat in Kingdom. That feat goes to SHK who won a battle with a 10:1 disadvantage while Shibasou merely benefited from Ordo retreating to stop Riboku plundering the cities he had just captured.

Again, neither feat compares to Shi Ei single handedly surviving battles where his entire squad was butchered, as well as Shi Ei personally slaying 3 Wei Fire Dragons.

Keep in mind, the lie spread that Renpa killed one of them, meaning that Renpa’s hype literally benefited from a feat that Shi Ei was the one who actually accomplished lol.

So yeah, Shibasou’s feat against Ordo is nothing compared to what pre-General Shi Ei did on the regular.

You are correct in bringing up those General Slaying feat but remember, they were not slained in the battlefield. We don't actually know the circumstances on how he slayed them apart from he somehow did. Earl Shi was an active General of warring state whereas Shi Ba Shou was mostly couped up in his own city and still earned the name of "sleeping tiger". Shi Ba Shou hasn't shown any suicidal mission surviving feat but it can't be used against him.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

You are correct in bringing up those General Slaying feat but remember, they were not slained in the battlefield. We don't actually know the circumstances on how he slayed them apart from he somehow did. Earl Shi was an active General of warring state whereas Shi Ba Shou was mostly couped up in his own city and still earned the name of "sleeping tiger". Shi Ba Shou hasn't shown any suicidal mission surviving feat but it can't be used against him.

I think we are meant to believe that Shi Ei bested the other 3 Fire Dragons through War from Rei Ou’s words “this is the spear the claimed 3 Fire Dragons”, the implication being that he bested them through combat, IE war lol. Though granted, he did this with the help of Rei Ou and Gai Mou

Still, that’s some legendary hype for Shi Ei. Though @Blackbeard made a good point about SBS’ future role making a strong case for him, but even then him being > Shi Ei is questionable.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Past Earl Shi I think it could go extreme diff from either side. He took down several Wei Dragon Generals. But Earl Shi who fought Ou Hon was a shell of his former self.

He even Didn't try to protect his vital organ when Ou Hon targeted it

 

[Owl Ki]

I am surprised at the amount of support Shibashou has. Lol.

Feat wise, Shibashou obviously suffers since we actually have not truly seen him do anything. Lol

I am going for Earl Shi (I assume we are talking about Prime Earl Shi that did not want to die) over Shibashou for pretty much the exact same reasons I went for Kyou over Riboku. More experience, held the title of a Legendary Great General for years, regularly fought against other the Legendary Great Generals such as the Qin Six and Zhao etc etc.

Though one feat that Shi has over Kyou (and pretty much anyone else that I can think of) is that he personally slew three Legendary Great Generals.

Other than that, @Admiral Lee Hung has pretty much covered everything else about the Chad Shi.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

It's hard to get an clear choice on this one.

Earl Shi feats of slaying 3 Wei Dragons(GGs) is better than we have heard in Kingdom from any other General, and has been fighting in most ruthless wars since child, eventually been hardened into a very Martial Might that is normally impossible to overcome.
Only reason Ou hon did it is, since he no longer had desires to live and didn't protect his vital spots from Ou hon. Plus, has also shown good enough War tactics as Lee pointed it out.

For Shi Ba shou, we don't have much to go for but one panel and hype.
Riboku himself recommending him for one of the 3 Zhou GGs is a good point in itself since each of Zhou GG of Heavens have proven to worthy of hype.
Shi ba shou refusing even that speaks more about his skills and this all is when Shi Ba shou has been laying low all this time.
Riboku is also confident when he receives News of his 5K forces heading out to face 4 times his forces, speaks his worth, given his forces were against that of Ordo's and even tho he might not be one of the Greatest Generals bt still pretty good/respectable one, since represented his country Yan in the Coalition Army.
And if Blackbeard historical spoilers are also to be believed could play crucial role in the next arc to come, but that also means he is destined to loose against one of Qin GGs.

I think i will go with Earl Shi, Shi Ba Shou doesn't have the experience given he always has been holed up in his home city and is destined to loose against Qin GGs, while Prime Earl Shi has much better feats and seems to be a Martial might( i am imaging slightly weaker verison of Prime Ou hon for reference) that only few can topple in fights.

 

[FaradaySloth]

In 2-3 years Shibashou will likely stomp, assuming he appears then.

 

[Hiragaro]

And i didn't get a tag? The disrespect ….it hurts man

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

And i didn't get a tag? The disrespect ….it hurts man

My bad bro. Added lol.

It’s not too late to vote in the winners and losers polls!

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

And i didn't get a tag? The disrespect ….it hurts man

Now that i see it, i am also not in the list. @Admiral Lee Hung .

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Now that i see it, i am also not in the list. @Admiral Lee Hung .

Damn, my tag game is weak! Lol

 

[Shanks]

Wtf is going on here. ShiBaShou destroying Earl in poll......


Earl Shi takes this anyday and in battle scenario. Like @Yo Tan Wa said, Earl's feat of destroying 3GG of wei singlehandedly is just too much.