General & Others Heaven vs hell

#1

Heaven and hell is clearly a very important and prominent theme oda has been setting up


The gorosei who are seen as gods in heaven looking more like demons straight from hell

The celestial dragons supposedly representing gods and the people of D demons
Doflamingo was even called the heavenly demon


The angelic lunarian and demonic oni that might have ties to the ancient weapons Uranus and Pluton

Oden’s blades enma and ame no habakiri representing heaven and hell.
Momonosuke and zoro potentially having something similar
Oden wielded 2 swords back when was alive the purple enma and white ame no habakiri

With enma getting tons of hype and focus while habakiri really doesn’t get anything. Everytime both blades are mentioned together it’s always enma getting wanked. Despite them both being the same grade and both being swords used by oden since he was young habakiri seems weak in comparison. With the blade seemingly being simple to master without any real learning curve.


Maybe instead of Ame no habakiri just being some basic blade what makes it more special is just something more passive and difficult to notice

Enma like most cursed swords are only considered cursed because they are difficult to master. They might even kill you if you aren’t strong enough to use them. Once mastered it’ll help boost your attack power and strength in different ways depending on the specific blade

What if habakiri is the opposite of enma and cursed blades in general? So instead of it being a cursed blade that boost your attack power once mastered it’d be considered more of a blessed blade that protects the user once mastered. It likely not being easy to master a blade like that either but it’s significantly less dangerous and risky than trying and failing with a cursed blade. Worse case scenario with habakiri you just fail to master its full potential. Worse case scenario with enma you just straight
Enma and habakiri representing heaven and hell, Ying and Yang, cursed and blessed, attack and protect, etc


As for how momonosuke and zoro fit into this? They obviously each have 1 of oden’s beloved blades. Zoro the purple enma and momo the white habakiri


Zoro already has a white blade with his wado ichimonji. It being the sword the sword passed down from koshiro and kuina to him. It’s also the sword he used to proclaim that he’ll fulfill his and kuina’s dream of becoming the wss. It somehow carrying kuina’s will in a way similar to enma with oden’s would be really poetic. It’d be like she really was there the whole time supporting zoro so they can become the strongest. If wado does end up being the only blade of the 3 he makes black to it’d signify even more their connection and dream
As for what his third blade would be if I don’t 100% think he’s keeping sandai and kinda do hope he gets a new blade. It being another great blade made by Kozaburo would be cool. So it’d be him starting and ending his journey with 3 of his blades. At the very least something tied to the shimotsuki and a great grade. As for what could make it special enough to replace sandai? Idk

As for momonosuke he currently has the white habakiri meaning to fit the pattern he’d need a purple blade. As for where he’d get one? There’s coincidentally another purple cursed great grade blade on wano. This one in particular even being made by his kozuki ancestors. That blade obviously being the nidai kitetsu that his grandfather is holding.
As for why he’ll use nidai or 2 sword style in general?
  1. No one else is using it and it seems like a perfect replacement for enma especially with momo being a kozuki
  2. He wants to surpass oden his dad. Plus his other father figure kinemon also uses 2 sword style

If oda goes farther into the wings dynamic + king of hell thing for zoro maybe sanji will represent heaven. If he learns that his jambe is associated with his mother maybe he’d think of it as heavenly flames instead
Plus

  • Luffy - pirate king aka king of the seas aka between heaven and hell = shirahoshi aka mermaid princess aka Poseidon aka ruler of the seas
  • Zoro - king of hell = Yamato (?) aka oni princess and potentially the one that’s gonna use pluton aka ruler of hell
  • Sanji - king of heavens/skies(?) = lunarian princess aka maybe tied to Uranus aka ruler of the heavens
  • Also and old theory I made. Tho again it’s old so…


Blackbeard represents an evil person with the will of D and shanks potentially a good person with celestial dragon blood
Them representing the lunar and solar eclipses would be really cool too. Tying their fates together and to luffy’s more


We know vivi herself has both the blood of the celestial dragons and the d and luffy might be the same. Luffy’s biological mother being a celestial dragon would be pretty poetic. Celestial dragon vs will of d, heaven vs hell, gods vs demons, the sea being in between both, might tie into shanks and Blackbeard, etc
 
#4
Zoro is supposedly king of hell and ifrit means demon god ( Majin )

Both can be connected in a way or another. It isnt for one of them only
Even Robin has demon related attack, Brook represent the undead and underworld.

Ifrit represent jinn in Islam, wait, BM's son Daifuki already got that Jinn DF.


Connected doesn't mean Sanji is the KOH too, haha

Candyboys want everything Zoro has 😆😆
 
#5
Zoro is supposedly king of hell and ifrit means demon god ( Majin )

Both can be connected in a way or another. It isnt for one of them only
Yeah it’d be cool if each monster trio member had something to represent both
  1. If luffy is both of d and celestial dragon blood that’s how he can represent heaven and hell. With him being perfectly balanced as the pirate king aka king of the seas
  2. Zoro has enma to represent hell and potentially wado to represent heaven. Him leaning towards hell theming more with the whole king of hell thing
  3. Sanji can maybe can be some king of the heavens/skies. If his fire powers are tied to sora in some shape or form maybe he can view it as a blessing like heavenly fire. Since he hates judge maybe you can argue he sees the exoskeleton as a curse in a way he has to control
Each potentially being tied to an ancient weapon/princess/race is also cool imo
  1. Sea: Poseidon, fishmen/merfolk, mermaid princess, king of the pirates/sea, etc
  2. Hell: Pluton, oni, oni princess, king of hell, zoro’s mom’s name is Tera, etc
  3. Heaven: Uranus, lunarian, lunarian princess, king of the heavens, sanji’s mom’s name is Sora, etc
 
#10

  • Ancient weapons
    • Heaven Uranus
    • Sun Poseidon
    • Underworld Pluton
  • Void century war
    • Heaven celestial dragons
    • Sun Nefertari
    • Underworld d clan
  • Emperors
    • Heaven shanks
    • Sun luffy maybe buggy too somehow
    • Underworld Blackbeard
  • Monster trio
    • Heaven sanji
    • Sun luffy Jinbe also works
    • Underworld zoro
  • “Weakling” trio maybe
    • Heaven nami
    • Sun usopp
    • Underworld chopper maybe
  • Maybe middle trio
    • Heaven Robin/franky idk
    • Sun Robin/franky idk
    • Underworld obviously brook
 
#13
Not just Imu's throne room, but the top of the world, is called hell,
[automerge]1732975504[/automerge]
So if the D are the natural enemy of the being whose throne is in hell, something about them is the opposite of that, to do with Heaven,
[automerge]1732975635[/automerge]
And the devil is not the natural enemy of the gods, from a religious perspective the devil fits right in with pagan deities, against the deity of an abrahamic religion, the God,
 
#14
I actually thought the same thing great theory, Sanji will probably find something with the will of King of Sky(Sora no Ou) in japanese Sky means Sora which is also Sanjis mothers name.

With this all three realms of Elbaf will have kings, Sanji may find Odins spear and inherrit his will or heavenly clouds gathering sword like Kizarus but real one.

Personally i think Heaven was for Lunarians, Sun for Giants and Hell for Onis, just look at Loki who has oni like horns is in the hell realm.

Actually with this logic Zoro who has oni giri attack may not be an Oni but an oni slayer.
 
#15

?

Pretty much I think Rayleigh and gaban were masters in armament and observation haki respectively


We already know for a fact Rayleigh has the highest level of armament so that’s pretty much set. So maybe he’s a master of that internal version

Like having all 3 alone doesn’t mean you’ve mastered each level. From what we’ve seen each can be pushed further with things like full body hardening for basic, what kizaru does for emissions, etc. so yeah why not give ray the highest mastery of the last level. If he mastered the other 2 I wouldn’t mind either lol


Obviously we don’t really know shit about gaban besides him being one of Roger’s top men just after Rayleigh but I just think it’s fun speculation so yeah

With Rayleigh being the armament master it’d be cool if gaban was the observation haki master. Maybe knowing how to do things like future sight and observation killing and other techniques idk. Again I just think it’d be cool if Roger’s top 2 men specialized and mastered each



Roger most likely mastering both with maybe knowing some unknown rare conquerors abilities on top of that


Odens in the picture so ima mention him too
:kayneshrug:
I don’t think oden had internal armament or future observation but I do think through the mastery of his swords enma and ame no habakiri. Like while oden “only” has emissions armament enma helps boost his output beyond normal kinda making up for the fact he doesn’t have internal. Imo habakiri might be tied to observation haki and his sensory abilities. So despite “only” having basic observation it can be enhanced somehow
 
#17
The top of the world is hell

Imu is the god of the world

The world is turned upside down
[automerge]1736756189[/automerge]
In the Bible in Revelation 21 there is a concept of a new heaven and a new earth, where after the end of the world, there is made a new heaven and new earth, where the saved people go to live forever

Maybe the dawn is like the coming of the new hwaven and new earth
[automerge]1736756283[/automerge]
The apostles were also complained about that they turn the world upside down in Acts 17:6
 
#19
Remember when the silhouette guy said “Come” at the beginning of the arc while looking out to the sea? His CoO was great enough to sense that the SHs were just leaving Egghead
Bro watched the Davy Back Fight between Foxy and Luffy from the other end of the world, while chatting up Ripley.
 
#20
I actually thought the same thing great theory, Sanji will probably find something with the will of King of Sky(Sora no Ou) in japanese Sky means Sora which is also Sanjis mothers name.

With this all three realms of Elbaf will have kings, Sanji may find Odins spear and inherrit his will or heavenly clouds gathering sword like Kizarus but real one.

Personally i think Heaven was for Lunarians, Sun for Giants and Hell for Onis, just look at Loki who has oni like horns is in the hell realm.

Actually with this logic Zoro who has oni giri attack may not be an Oni but an oni slayer.
Honestly wouldn’t mind sanji or even the strawhats added special weapons to their arsenal’s
We already have vegapunk here maybe there could also be a cool blacksmith character in elbaf too
Remember when the silhouette guy said “Come” at the beginning of the arc while looking out to the sea? His CoO was great enough to sense that the SHs were just leaving Egghead
Gaban having busted observation haki could be dope
 
Top