If Keisha had survived, how far does he go?
- Thread starter Great General Kanki
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Keisha had an oustanding portrayal.
- Riboku originally considered him to be the strongest general of an entire type.
- He had beaten Riboku a fair few times in war games.
- Had Duke Hyou in a bad spot as early as day one, with Shin awakening his own instict to tackle the situation himself.
- He apparently figured out Kanki's weakness, something only Riboku has shown to know on screen.
- He was considered to be the closest to the seat of GH.
The Keisha of the story was still inferior to the likes of Hyou (confirmed by Riboku) and fell for Kanki's nasty schemes, but he was a very, very strong commander. The strongest commander Zhao has had aside from Riboku/RSJ/Renpa/Chousa/Shibashou.
Had he lived, I think he would have been at least Hyou's equal.
I think SSJ will pretty much stay as he is, I don't think Hara will have him grow further.
SSJ is someone who can lead armies while being the commander in chief and actually has veeery good tactical abilities. He is impressive. But he ain't Keisha.
- Riboku originally considered him to be the strongest general of an entire type.
- He had beaten Riboku a fair few times in war games.
- Had Duke Hyou in a bad spot as early as day one, with Shin awakening his own instict to tackle the situation himself.
- He apparently figured out Kanki's weakness, something only Riboku has shown to know on screen.
- He was considered to be the closest to the seat of GH.
The Keisha of the story was still inferior to the likes of Hyou (confirmed by Riboku) and fell for Kanki's nasty schemes, but he was a very, very strong commander. The strongest commander Zhao has had aside from Riboku/RSJ/Renpa/Chousa/Shibashou.
Had he lived, I think he would have been at least Hyou's equal.
I think SSJ will pretty much stay as he is, I don't think Hara will have him grow further.
SSJ is someone who can lead armies while being the commander in chief and actually has veeery good tactical abilities. He is impressive. But he ain't Keisha.
I don't believe it's a certainty, Kei Sha was a rare talent, but SSJ nevertheless remains a mysterious figure. Ri Boku appears to trust in his abilities implicitly, as evidenced by giving him command of the armies against Yo Tan Wa at Ryouyou and command of the siege defences at Atusyo, which was critical to setting up Ri Boku's ambush at Gian.
Ri Boku is famously wrong about a lot of things, and he considered Duke Hyou the epitome of Instinctual Type after facing him.
To be fair, Duke Hyou deliberately sprung his trap. I don't think he'd have done that if there wasn't a narrative purpose.
There really isn't much evidence to support this. Kei Sha wasn't exactly young or inexperienced. Of course, he still had plenty of room to improve, but I don't think the manga really suggests he was capable of reaching the Duke's level, never mind surpass him.
Ri Boku is famously wrong about a lot of things, and he considered Duke Hyou the epitome of Instinctual Type after facing him.
To be fair, Duke Hyou deliberately sprung his trap. I don't think he'd have done that if there wasn't a narrative purpose.
There really isn't much evidence to support this. Kei Sha wasn't exactly young or inexperienced. Of course, he still had plenty of room to improve, but I don't think the manga really suggests he was capable of reaching the Duke's level, never mind surpass him.
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Sure, I never said otherwise. Still, the fact that Keisha made such an impression on Riboku that he thought that much about him is extremely impressive.
Duke Hyou smelled the hint of a trap, true. But he still did what he thought was best. And fell for what Keisha had prepared. There's no indication whatsoever that a "narrative purpose" made him do things differently.
If anything, Hara made Keisha a general of such a lv where he could effectively utilize that to make Shin's awakened instictual prowess shine (through the bad situation Keisha had createad).
I think he could very well have. His portrayal was already incredible at the time he died. Seing more of him further down the line would have certainly been interesting.
Duke Hyou smelled the hint of a trap, true. But he still did what he thought was best. And fell for what Keisha had prepared. There's no indication whatsoever that a "narrative purpose" made him do things differently.
If anything, Hara made Keisha a general of such a lv where he could effectively utilize that to make Shin's awakened instictual prowess shine (through the bad situation Keisha had createad).
I think he could very well have. His portrayal was already incredible at the time he died. Seing more of him further down the line would have certainly been interesting.
Naturally, Kei Sha was elite. His talent was undeniable, and no one knew that better than Ri Boku, who practically raised him.
The guy was closest to becoming a Three Great Heaven. It annoys me how little emphasis Hara put on that. By now, Shin and the HSA have killed 12 Zhao generals - 8 or 9 were slain by Shin personally. They should revile him like the second coming of Ou Ki.
Duke Hyou didn't smell a hint of a trap. He knew there was a trap. He jumped in regardless for the same reason Kan Ki pressed on to Gian, knowing they would likely fall into a trap.
The narrative purpose is clear both for Duke Hyou at Kankoku Pass and Kan Ki at Gian: this is who these men are. The decision to press ahead anyway is informed by all the same thoughts, impulses as instincts that make them who they are. If it helps to understand what Kan Ki is thinking of, just think back to when Ou Hon pulled that insane reversal at Shukai Plain and essentially crippled the Ba Nan Ji Army.
Duke Hyou was the quintessential Instinctual Type, and not only that, but he also had more experience than just about anyone. Triggering Kei Sha's trap was a decision based on confidence. One that looked like it was misjudged, but we'll never know because Shin had his moment - which is clearly what the narrative was serving.
Whether in antiquity or modern times, how likely do you think it is a military commander will anticipate a trap and willingly spring it? It must happen from time to time, be it hubris, confidence, incompetence, ignorance or any combination of the four. Soldiers themselves are valuable assets. No sensible commander is going to want to squander lives and trigger traps just to see what happens or what they could make of it in the chaos. Especially not an era where they are conditioned from birth that anyone and everyone, including high ranking generals and royalty, can be executed for failing in their duty.
The guy was closest to becoming a Three Great Heaven. It annoys me how little emphasis Hara put on that. By now, Shin and the HSA have killed 12 Zhao generals - 8 or 9 were slain by Shin personally. They should revile him like the second coming of Ou Ki.
Duke Hyou didn't smell a hint of a trap. He knew there was a trap. He jumped in regardless for the same reason Kan Ki pressed on to Gian, knowing they would likely fall into a trap.
The narrative purpose is clear both for Duke Hyou at Kankoku Pass and Kan Ki at Gian: this is who these men are. The decision to press ahead anyway is informed by all the same thoughts, impulses as instincts that make them who they are. If it helps to understand what Kan Ki is thinking of, just think back to when Ou Hon pulled that insane reversal at Shukai Plain and essentially crippled the Ba Nan Ji Army.
Duke Hyou was the quintessential Instinctual Type, and not only that, but he also had more experience than just about anyone. Triggering Kei Sha's trap was a decision based on confidence. One that looked like it was misjudged, but we'll never know because Shin had his moment - which is clearly what the narrative was serving.
Whether in antiquity or modern times, how likely do you think it is a military commander will anticipate a trap and willingly spring it? It must happen from time to time, be it hubris, confidence, incompetence, ignorance or any combination of the four. Soldiers themselves are valuable assets. No sensible commander is going to want to squander lives and trigger traps just to see what happens or what they could make of it in the chaos. Especially not an era where they are conditioned from birth that anyone and everyone, including high ranking generals and royalty, can be executed for failing in their duty.
