Questions & Mysteries Is the Ancient Kingdom based on Ancient Carthage and It's founders The Phoenicians?

[SourPunk]

The amazing similarities between the Ancient kingdom and Ancient Carthage (Phoenicians)

Ancient Carthage

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• The Myth of Carthage's founding, concludes that Carthage was created by the legendary Phoenician queen known as "Dido."
• Before creating Carthage, she had fled from tyranny and autocracy.
• She founded Carthage, and under her wisdom and leadership, it prospered and became extremely wealthy.
• She fell in love with a Trojan hero.

Here Is the flag of Ancient Carthage (Military standard) Crescent moon and the sun!

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• Carthage was destroyed by Rome, their writings were also purposefully destroyed, and many of it's inhabitants were sold into slavery.

But, Here Is the most exciting part, The Phoenicians who founded Ancient Carthage!

The similarities between The Ancient Kingdom and The Phoenicians (Founders of Ancient Carthage)
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• The Phoenicians were some of the most mysterious and intriguing entities to ever exist; they were a civilization of traveling seafarers.
• To call them "Advanced" Is no exaggeration, they were some of the most successful traders and innovators in history, especially in the areas of writing and language! But most notably in our case, they were expert ship builders, and craftsmen!
• they were known as "the first true seafarers in Europe" and "Merchants of the people of many coast lines" but this is an understatement. they were unparalleled for centuries.
• More importantly, they traveled to the ends of the earth, created a massive web of trading centers, and were middle men between many different civilizations. They helped facilitate the sharing of cultures and ideas!
• The Phoenicians were often credited with the first true alphabet, one which the English language is written in today, in fact, they initially used Egyptian hieroglyphics and then came up with their own alphabet which gradually replaced the former.
• However, even though they were innovators in the fields of writing and language, we know very little about them, due to their writings being lost and purposefully destroyed.
• Most of what's written about them, was written by civilizations who hated everything they stood for. However, some of what we do know about them was scattered across their many "trading centers/settlements" due to their travels all over the Mediterranean Sea and beyond, and is recorded on stone tablets!
• for example, the name "Phoenicians" is not even what they called themselves, it was what was the ancient Greeks called them due to their extremely valuable purple dye.
• Before they expanded to the lengths I mentioned, they were based in the levant (Particularly modern-day Lebanon) in what was then known as Canaan (Modern day middle east, more or less.) During the Bronze age.
• They were surrounded by powerful autocratic kingdoms spanning the entirety of Canaan.
• One day "The sea people" appeared, literal Pirates, from all over the world, of many races, and tribes. it's commonly believed that some of these pirates were from these Canaan kingdoms, including the three Phoenician cities which made up "Phoenicia"
• these pirates destroyed and pillaged some of these kingdoms, and were a major factor in the collapse of the bronze age.
• After the collapse, Phoenicians were relatively unharmed, and were able to expand, and create many trading centers/settlements, the most successful and well known of which, is the legendary ancient Carthage!

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[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Nice thread.

 

[Adam 🍎]

If you fast forward in history

It was the Romans that burned Carthage to the ground.

In second Punic war Carthage had a general Hanibal that brought Rome to its knees. Hanibal had a blood feud with Rome and he wanted to protect Carthage at all cost.

So in a way Hanibal and his family can represent D. Clan

 

[JackThaConflagration]

Although carthage was destroyed, Carthage=/=phoenicians. It was merely the leading city amongst all the phoenician colonies after Tyre was destroyed by Alexander circa 300 bc.

For example, even phoenician cities like Utica nearby started to resist carthage after it started losing to rome. After carthage was razed, land was given to Utica and it continues to thrive under roman rule. It was here that the last major battle of caesars civil war was fought.

So while carthage was destroyed, the entire phoenician culture weren't killed off or driven to exterminator nation. The reason we don't have much phoenician writing is simply because they did not withstand the test of time much like other pre rome mediterranean civilizations such as the etruscans.

 

[SourPunk]

Nice thread.

haha thanks! I'm pretty new here, genuinely thought no one is gonna see this.

 

[Ballel]

Funny how I have just recently read some interesting content about Carthage and now you post this theory.
I believe Oda drew inspiration from many different historical events and mythologies.

The 'Sea People' were interesting as well, we still don't know that much about them which makes them even more interesting imo.


It is true that Phoenicians =/= Carthagians but despite this, Carthage was a major player when it comes to trade, seafaring etc. They were famed for their ships in particular, ruled the western part of the Mediterranean, circumnavigated Africa. There's even a theory that they reached America.

All in all, nice theory!

The reason we don't have much phoenician writing is simply because they did not withstand the test of time much like other pre rome mediterranean civilizations such as the etruscans.

Their writings were indeed purposefully destroyed. Many Roman writings were only preserved due to monasteries etc. in Christian Europe. About 99 - 90% of all Roman and Greek writings are lost today.

Also show me those Etruscan writings? Not even their language can be fully reconstructed because we lack sources.

 

[SourPunk]

If you fast forward in history

It was the Romans that burned Carthage to the ground.

In second Punic war Carthage had a general Hanibal that brought Rome to its knees. Hanibal had a blood feud with Rome and he wanted to protect Carthage at all cost.

So in a way Hanibal and his family can represent D. Clan

Ok, I kind of think Oda might have taken a lot inspiration from that period (Collapse of the bronze age till the fall of Carthage.)

Some of it Is prevalent within the Alabasta arc.

One of the most mystical cities of that period, was Babylon of the new Babylon empire, so that could also be something In the future.
The hanging gardens of Babylon comes to mind.

But one more thing about ancient carthage's flag:
They had two symbols the one I showed in the post (Moon and sun) + they had another flag/symbol which was of a goddess, and together they kind of remind me of the Kozuki symbol, it's been depicted in other artworks, here it is

 

[Ballel]

Ok, I kind of think Oda might have taken a lot inspiration from that period (Collapse of the bronze age till the fall of Carthage.)

Some of it Is prevalent within the Alabasta arc.

One of the most mystical cities of that period, was Babylon of the new Babylon empire, so that could also be something In the future.
The hanging gardens of Babylon comes to mind.

But one more thing about ancient carthage's flag:
They had two symbols the one I showed in the post (Moon and sun) + they had another flag/symbol which was of a goddess, and together they kind of remind me of the Kozuki symbol, it's been depicted in other artworks, here it is

It looks looks even more similar to the Sun Pirates' tattoo.

 

[JackThaConflagration]

Funny how I have just recently read some interesting content about Carthage and now you post this theory.
I believe Oda drew inspiration from many different historical events and mythologies.

The 'Sea People' were interesting as well, we still don't know that much about them which makes them even more interesting imo.


It is true that Phoenicians =/= Carthagians but despite this, Carthage was a major player when it comes to trade, seafaring etc. They were famed for their ships in particular, ruled the western part of the Mediterranean, circumnavigated Africa. There's even a theory that they reached America.

All in all, nice theory!

Their writings were indeed purposefully destroyed. Many Roman writings were only preserved due to monasteries etc. in Christian Europe. About 99 - 90% of all Roman and Greek writings are lost today.

Also show me those Etruscan writings? Not even their language can be fully reconstructed because we lack sources.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. You're mostly repeating what i said. Most writing "do not withstand the test time", because they were written on soft material that cannot survive 1000 years.

And no carthage did reach america. Any theory in that is not credible as there are zero evidence they have the capacity to do so.

 

[SourPunk]

"So while carthage was destroyed, the entire phoenician culture weren't killed off or driven to exterminator nation. The reason we don't have much phoenician writing is simply because they did not withstand the test of time much like other pre rome mediterranean civilizations such as the etruscans."

The Phoenicians, who almost certainly did not identify as "Phoenicians" Integrated with many cultures and ethnicities, additionally, the settlements/trading centers they had were not destroyed all at once, that is true. however, In one piece; the allies of the ancient kingdom still exist as well.

Also you have to remember, inspiration, is rarely historically accurate.

 

[Ballel]

I don't understand what you are trying to say. You're merely repeating what i said. Most writing "do not withstand the test time".

Your post makes it sound as if natural/environmental factors caused Carthagian writings to decay.

 

[JackThaConflagration]

Your post makes it sound as if natural/environmental factors caused Carthagian writings to decay.

You asked me for extant etruscan sources when I clearly said they are very scant, much like phoenicians.

And yes environmental factor causes nearly every writing that is not copied over and over to get destroyed. That is including warfare destroying libraries.

People actively seeking to destroy certain material was not the norm. Most writing were destroyed simply through passage of time.