Speculations Momonosuke and Kaido

[Blother Fertitta]

TLDR DOWN BELOW

This chapter confirmed that Momonosuke Dragon Devil Fruit is legitimate.
Either Vegapunk didn't want to give this to the WG or he truly felt it was a failure.
It ended up being a legitimate fruit working with the same/similar mechanics as Kaido's devil fruit does (possible assumption).

Okay, now that we addressed this, time to break the Fourth Wall.
IRL, Oda is notoriously known for killing off characters and bringing them back in a different form.
Whether it be under the guise of "Inherited Will" or through similar characteristics;
Oda has a penchant for doing this sort of stuff. Not saying this is good or bad.
My speculation is that wtvr devil fruit or ability the past person had, Oda transfers it to the new user to fully explain/flesh out.

Allow me to explain.

• Oda kills off Ace. Oda brings back Sabo (Luffys brother, Mera Mera User, 2nd in Command to a Powerful Individual)
• Oda kills off Whitebeard. WB Devil Fruit goes directly to BB. Whom, we will eventually see the full capabilities of his fruit with. One could even say Katakuri as well, (ex: never lied on his back, invincible, unbeatable, family, etc).
• Oda kills off Oden. Oden Cosplayer, Yamato enters the scene with "iNhErItEd wIlL". And not to mention, wtvr the fuckery that Ch1007+ brings us.
• Oda kills off Ryuma. Introduces Roronoa Zoro as reincarnation or Second Ryuma.
• Oda kills off Absalom to fully explore to Clear Clear Fruit through Shiryu (don't know if it was explained early in TB)

Now my theory is Momonosuke is given this weird panel section juxtaposing with what Cipher Pol was talking about, how they believe/hope the "failed" fruit is destroyed, when in actuality it survived and is in the soul of the future Shogun of Wano.

What does this have to do with Kaido? What I meant with what I said earlier is that, 2 of the same things cannot coexist in One Piece. (From my interpretation at least, I'd be more than happy to see someone refute this lazy claim.) Oda diversifies abilities, devil fruits, and characteristics to the individual (E.g. Nitoryu user of Past was Oden, present is Vista?, Future will be scabbards). Characters are usually not mirrors, although, they may take inspiration. At the very least they are not of the same era. Kaido also has the Dragon Fruit Model Seiryu like Momonosuke. And CP0 also mentioned Kaido specifically was experimented on by Vegapunk.

TLDR: Basically, what I'm trying to say is Kaido will die, just easily based off this chapter. Momonosuke and Kaido cannot coexist in the same realm having the same Overpowered Devil Fruit. Also, in a future Vegapunk mini-arc (hopefully), we may see Vegapunks reaction to his "failed" experiment should he have been serious/or lying about it.

I'd like to know if people still believe Kaido will survive post Wano. Interested in what reasons there still are for this.

@Cinera @bennbeckman @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna @Jew D. Boy @Light D Lamperouge @Marimo_420 @Roronoa-sama @yj
@Oblivion @Finalbeta @Fenaker @KiriNigiri @MonsterKaido @Kuro Ashi @Celestial D. Dragon @etc etc etc

 

[KiriNigiri]

Really good catch.

Momo becomes the true Eastern Dragon deity of Wano.

 

[Finalbeta]

My own reasons to believe that Kaido will most likely die stem from the notion that he once stated: "only in death, there can be found perfection" it's a very specific inference, add that to Zoro's words and you can get a further plot structural line.

 

[Weeman]

My own reasons to believe that Kaido will most likely die stem from the notion that he once stated: "only in death, there can be found perfection" it's a very specific inference, add that to Zoro's words and you can get a further plot structural line.

We still have to find out why he believes that though. I feel that Kaido's desire here is like a warped form of a legitimately good value.

Think of how like, Big Mom wants equality and a country where all races coexist, but her reasoning for it and actual desires are childish and superficial.

I think Kaido's desire for death is similar to that in the sense that he's focusing on the wrong aspect of why people like Oden, Roger and Whitebeard were so great. They lived great lives and their glorious death was a result of self sacrifice, but Kaido is choosing to not to focus on that selflesness and instead just focusing on how cool the death itself was, which has probably made him rather cynical.

If he dies without changing his views on the world, i feel like Oda would probably kill him off in a more pathetic way for the sake of irony (which is probably why so many people think BB could end up killing him) rather than actually fulfilling his wish of a glorious death.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

We still have to find out why he believes that though. I feel that Kaido's desire here is like a warped form of a legitimately good value.

Think of how like, Big Mom wants equality and a country where all races coexist, but her reasoning for it and actual desires are childish and superficial.

I think Kaido's desire for death is similar to that in the sense that he's focusing on the wrong aspect of why people like Oden, Roger and Whitebeard were so great. They lived great lives and their glorious death was a result of self sacrifice, but Kaido is choosing to not to focus on that selflesness and instead just focusing on how cool the death itself was, which has probably made him rather cynical.

If he dies without changing his views on the world, i feel like Oda would probably kill him off in a more pathetic way for the sake of irony (which is probably why so many people think BB could end up killing him) rather than actually fulfilling his wish of a glorious death.

With this I offer the parallel of deaths between Whitebeard and in the future Kaido. Whitebeard died a glorious death in the battlefield on his own terms for the entire world to see, while fighting legends like the Admirals, Garp/Sengoku, Mihawk and the Warlords alongside Luffy, Warlords, and a mega alliance. Kaido wants exactly this. However, Oda will not give Kaido this. Kaido will die at the hands of newbies making names for themselves in a country isolated and disconnected from the rest of the world. His death will not shatter the world like the vacuum Whitebeards death left.

And as you said, we need further information on Kaido past/mantra to understand what could happen going forwards.

 

[Gorosei Informer]

With this I offer the parallel of deaths between Whitebeard and in the future Kaido. Whitebeard died a glorious death in the battlefield on his own terms for the entire world to see, while fighting legends like the Admirals, Garp/Sengoku, Mihawk and the Warlords alongside Luffy, Warlords, and a mega alliance. Kaido wants exactly this. However, Oda will not give Kaido this. Kaido will die at the hands of newbies making names for themselves in a country isolated and disconnected from the rest of the world. His death will not shatter the world like the vacuum Whitebeards death left.

And as you said, we need further information on Kaido past/mantra to understand what could happen going forwards.

Someone pointed out that Oda loves irony in writing his characters, villains especially. I'd have to find the post but it was probably on here or Reddit, I wanna say it was a post on here actually but either here or Reddit.

I really want Kaido to get an ironic, underwhelming death. To even be overshadowed somehow or forgotten. Maybe people even choosing to purposely forget him because they don't want to remember the pain he caused them.



At the same time, I really wanted Akainu to have been the one to cause his scar and the one to kill him maybe. I wouldn't mind Kaido dying a glorious death if it's taking on a much upgraded Buster Call and thus at least an Admiral. Maybe Garp himself instead or too?

Kaido didn't mention Garp as one of the 5 people he compared Luffy to for some reason, yet surely he would have known of Garp, especially from God Valley incident?

Like other villains, I see Kaido as setting up his own failure as you alluded to here:

Kaido will die at the hands of newbies making names for themselves in a country isolated and disconnected from the rest of the world. His death will not shatter the world like the vacuum Whitebeards death left.

I really love irony in storytelling (irony also loves me IRL to my own chagrin...ironically) and I think it would be very poetic and karmic to Kaido to get this fate. His line about humans being perfect in death proves he idolises and envies how Whitebeard, Oden and maybe even Xebec died (assuming we have no other death fakeouts like with Oden apparently ironically).



Kaido's flashback is gonna be a real game changer. I susepct he's depressed and suicidal out of feeling inadequate compared to these legends but also losing them too, losing his great rivals and thus opponents who could really challenge him, bring him to the brink of death and make him feel more alive ironically.

I think he will have a very tragic and dark past too, just lke Big Mom and other characters in OP, as Oda loves his tragic, dark flashbacks ofc! I've had theories and speculations and Marco the OP Theorist had a theory on him being the "Mewtwo" of OP:

I think the flashback will answer and explain a lot about Kaido when it finally does happen. I'm gonna assume with "Oden returning", it's gonna happen soon thankfully and it's gonna explain Yamato too. What if she's not his real daughter somehow? A clone experiment? Which might explain their hair? Or what happened to their mother? (I'm not sure how to gender Yamato lol, I wanna say she but Yamato gets referred to as "Kaido's son" in-story and seems to reference stories of daughters being raised as men.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Kaido's flashback is gonna be a real game changer. I suspect he's depressed and suicidal out of feeling inadequate compared to these legends but also losing them too, losing his great rivals and thus opponents who could really challenge him, bring him to the brink of death and make him feel more alive ironically. I think he will have a very tragic and dark past too, just like Big Mom and other characters in OP, as Oda loves his tragic, dark flashbacks ofc! I've had theories and speculations and Marco the OP Theorist had a theory on him being the "Mewtwo" of OP: I think the flashback will answer and explain a lot about Kaido when it finally does happen. I'm gonna assume with "Oden returning", it's gonna happen soon thankfully and it's gonna explain Yamato too.

I really want Kaido to get an ironic, underwhelming death.

I think we are headed down this track.

Maybe people even choosing to purposely forget him because they don't want to remember the pain he caused them

This is good idea. I can see it happening.

I really love irony in storytelling (irony also loves me IRL to my own chagrin...ironically) and I think it would be very poetic and karmic to Kaido to get this fate.

. I enjoy the irony as well.

Kaido's flashback is gonna be a real game changer.

Dude, I actually think right now in real time, Oda has begun sprinkling details of Kaido's flashback. With this experimentation line, which many fans already speculated.

I am excited for a lengthy Kaido flashback that incorporates Rocks D. Xebec, Shanks/Buggy origins, God Valley, Prime WB/Roger/Garp. With this in mind, hopefully Act 3 is coming to a close.
Hopefully

 

[Gorosei Informer]

This is good idea. I can see it happening.

Ty!
:cheers:

Dude, I actually think right now in real time, Oda has begun sprinkling details of Kaido's flashback. With this experimentation line, which many fans already speculated.

I am excited for a lengthy Kaido flashback that incorporates Rocks D. Xebec, Shanks/Buggy origins, God Valley, Prime WB/Roger/Garp. With this in mind, hopefully Act 3 is coming to a close.

Completely agree! I've had the headcanon since Kaido appeared and the Oni symbol on PH that Kaido is an experiment from there. Queen was probably recruited from there and King from Impel Down. Someone said he could have got Jack from Fishman Island nearby too ofc?

Those children at PH are so similar to BM and gigantification and candy/sweet food addiction was prevalent in them just like BM with her sweet food addiction/hunger pangs and obesssion with gigantifcaiton. She lost a lot of children close to her as well as her own parents and her new family as a child and now compensates with a massive family and TONS of children but being emotionally distant with her kids and husbands, just using them for her own gains to protect and strengthen herself and her empire ofc.
Severe abandonment issues in other words, hence why she insists on people turning up to her tea parties, why she is so controlling over people, especially taking their lifespans and not letting them leave her territory, especially if they're family. Making them pay a price to leave her crew in one form or another etc....

But yeah, regarding Kaido, I really want that for his flashback so much. Oden got such a long flashback, why not Kaido? Oda dropped Roger and WB on us in Oden's so why not Rocks Pirates and Xebec in Kaido's? I NEED those onscreen panels of Prime Mom too.

If we get more on Shanks and Buggy I might literally scream too lol.



There's so much Oda needs to show and who knows what else he is hiding? I really hope the calamities get fleshed out more especially Jack and King now. King has so much to see and answer for. Katakuri's flashback was underwhelming but I hope King's is much better!
King has so much potential and I really hope Oda doesn't waste it. I'm still suffering from what he's done and not done for Smoothie!



I do think Oda has some genuinely brilliant stuff coming up, it's just getting there and him actually being able to show us. He has given us such massive lore dumps out of nowhere and as you were saying, there's so much he can show us and hopefully will soon!

We very much are going to see OP reach a new peak/prime by far if Oda does this right. For his sake and our own, I really hope he accomplishes it. Stuff like Senor Pinks, Laws, Doflamingos, Baby 5s, Big Mom's etc backstories were brilliant to me and I am extremely excited for Kaido's based on those too.
(I hated child Linlin being an unstoppable destructive machine that ruined Elbaf but I'm coming to accept it more very gradually over time.)

 

[KiriNigiri]

Someone pointed out that Oda loves irony in writing his characters, villains especially. I'd have to find the post but it was probably on here or Reddit, I wanna say it was a post on here actually but either here or Reddit.

I really want Kaido to get an ironic, underwhelming death. To even be overshadowed somehow or forgotten. Maybe people even choosing to purposely forget him because they don't want to remember the pain he caused them.



At the same time, I really wanted Akainu to have been the one to cause his scar and the one to kill him maybe. I wouldn't mind Kaido dying a glorious death if it's taking on a much upgraded Buster Call and thus at least an Admiral. Maybe Garp himself instead or too?

Kaido didn't mention Garp as one of the 5 people he compared Luffy to for some reason, yet surely he would have known of Garp, especially from God Valley incident?

Like other villains, I see Kaido as setting up his own failure as you alluded to here:


I really love irony in storytelling (irony also loves me IRL to my own chagrin...ironically) and I think it would be very poetic and karmic to Kaido to get this fate. His line about humans being perfect in death proves he idolises and envies how Whitebeard, Oden and maybe even Xebec died (assuming we have no other death fakeouts like with Oden apparently ironically).



Kaido's flashback is gonna be a real game changer. I susepct he's depressed and suicidal out of feeling inadequate compared to these legends but also losing them too, losing his great rivals and thus opponents who could really challenge him, bring him to the brink of death and make him feel more alive ironically.

I think he will have a very tragic and dark past too, just lke Big Mom and other characters in OP, as Oda loves his tragic, dark flashbacks ofc! I've had theories and speculations and Marco the OP Theorist had a theory on him being the "Mewtwo" of OP:

I think the flashback will answer and explain a lot about Kaido when it finally does happen. I'm gonna assume with "Oden returning", it's gonna happen soon thankfully and it's gonna explain Yamato too. What if she's not his real daughter somehow? A clone experiment? Which might explain their hair? Or what happened to their mother? (I'm not sure how to gender Yamato lol, I wanna say she but Yamato gets referred to as "Kaido's son" in-story and seems to reference stories of daughters being raised as men.

Kaido being some experiment who doesn't know his place in the world could explain his fascination and admiration of Samurai, and especially Oden.

Spoiler

Oden was a man who knew who he was and lived how he wanted. Roger and Newgate did as well, which is why Kaido name drops them for "doing it right." He seeks some validation in his existence, and Oden was the closest experience he had to realizing what he searched for. A death that everyone will remember him for.

Kaido's desire to create a Pirate wasteland out of Wano is his coming out to the world and Wano. No longer will he live the false role as a Dragon god.

Violence is what leads to death, and so Kaido wants to create more of it through his plans. Leaving his mark, what should be the biggest mark on the world, before his passing.

 

[Gorosei Informer]

Kaido being some experiment who doesn't know his place in the world could explain his fascination and admiration of Samurai, and especially Oden.

Oooh, thats a really interesting possibility!

:kizabat:

Oden was a man who knew who he was and lived how he wanted. Roger and Newgate did as well, which is why Kaido name drops them for "doing it right." He seeks some validation in his existence, and Oden was the closest experience he had to realizing what he searched for. A death that everyone will remember him for.

That makes a lot of sense! Wow that does make him sympathethic/understandable to some degree. That's actually tragic too, him wanting to remembered in death for that reason, wow...

Kaido's desire to create a Pirate wasteland out of Wano is his coming out to the world and Wano. No longer will he live the false role as a Dragon god.

Cant believe I forgot about this!


The whole Dragon Deity/God thing...

Violence is what leads to death, and so Kaido wants to create more of it through his plans. Leaving his mark, what should be the biggest mark on the world, before his passing.

In a sense, it's like he's being purposely controversial/antagonistic to stand out and drawn attention and thus be known and remembered? That's why he wants the biggest war too, to leave the biggest impact ever or at least the biggest that he can?

This is all adding up now, it makes him a lot more understandable! Thank you for this, it was very fascinating!

Also that Kiku panel is such greatness ofc!

 

[Jew D. Boy]

TLDR DOWN BELOW

This chapter confirmed that Momonosuke Dragon Devil Fruit is legitimate.
Either Vegapunk didn't want to give this to the WG or he truly felt it was a failure.
It ended up being a legitimate fruit working with the same/similar mechanics as Kaido's devil fruit does (possible assumption).

Okay, now that we addressed this, time to break the Fourth Wall.
IRL, Oda is notoriously known for killing off characters and bringing them back in a different form.
Whether it be under the guise of "Inherited Will" or through similar characteristics;
Oda has a penchant for doing this sort of stuff. Not saying this is good or bad.
My speculation is that wtvr devil fruit or ability the past person had, Oda transfers it to the new user to fully explain/flesh out.

Allow me to explain.

• Oda kills off Ace. Oda brings back Sabo (Luffys brother, Mera Mera User, 2nd in Command to a Powerful Individual)
• Oda kills off Whitebeard. WB Devil Fruit goes directly to BB. Whom, we will eventually see the full capabilities of his fruit with. One could even say Katakuri as well, (ex: never lied on his back, invincible, unbeatable, family, etc).
• Oda kills off Oden. Oden Cosplayer, Yamato enters the scene with "iNhErItEd wIlL". And not to mention, wtvr the fuckery that Ch1007+ brings us.
• Oda kills off Ryuma. Introduces Roronoa Zoro as reincarnation or Second Ryuma.
• Oda kills off Absalom to fully explore to Clear Clear Fruit through Shiryu (don't know if it was explained early in TB)

Now my theory is Momonosuke is given this weird panel section juxtaposing with what Cipher Pol was talking about, how they believe/hope the "failed" fruit is destroyed, when in actuality it survived and is in the soul of the future Shogun of Wano.

What does this have to do with Kaido? What I meant with what I said earlier is that, 2 of the same things cannot coexist in One Piece. (From my interpretation at least, I'd be more than happy to see someone refute this lazy claim.) Oda diversifies abilities, devil fruits, and characteristics to the individual (E.g. Nitoryu user of Past was Oden, present is Vista?, Future will be scabbards). Characters are usually not mirrors, although, they may take inspiration. At the very least they are not of the same era. Kaido also has the Dragon Fruit Model Seiryu like Momonosuke. And CP0 also mentioned Kaido specifically was experimented on by Vegapunk.

TLDR: Basically, what I'm trying to say is Kaido will die, just easily based off this chapter. Momonosuke and Kaido cannot coexist in the same realm having the same Overpowered Devil Fruit. Also, in a future Vegapunk mini-arc (hopefully), we may see Vegapunks reaction to his "failed" experiment should he have been serious/or lying about it.

I'd like to know if people still believe Kaido will survive post Wano. Interested in what reasons there still are for this.

@Cinera @bennbeckman @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna @Jew D. Boy @Light D Lamperouge @Marimo_420 @Roronoa-sama @yj
@Oblivion @Finalbeta @Fenaker @KiriNigiri @MonsterKaido @Kuro Ashi @Celestial D. Dragon @etc etc etc

Yeah, now that we know for sure that it’s Kaido’s DNA in Momo’s DF, this seems like the most reasonable outcome. Terrific work as usual :cheers:

 

[zzShinichi]

I believe Wano is the reversed MF. In MF we have 2 good guys died, and now in Wano, we will have 2 bad guys die (Kaidou and Orochi)

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Ty!
:cheers:



Completely agree! I've had the headcanon since Kaido appeared and the Oni symbol on PH that Kaido is an experiment from there. Queen was probably recruited from there and King from Impel Down. Someone said he could have got Jack from Fishman Island nearby too ofc?

Those children at PH are so similar to BM and gigantification and candy/sweet food addiction was prevalent in them just like BM with her sweet food addiction/hunger pangs and obesssion with gigantifcaiton. She lost a lot of children close to her as well as her own parents and her new family as a child and now compensates with a massive family and TONS of children but being emotionally distant with her kids and husbands, just using them for her own gains to protect and strengthen herself and her empire ofc.
Severe abandonment issues in other words, hence why she insists on people turning up to her tea parties, why she is so controlling over people, especially taking their lifespans and not letting them leave her territory, especially if they're family. Making them pay a price to leave her crew in one form or another etc....

But yeah, regarding Kaido, I really want that for his flashback so much. Oden got such a long flashback, why not Kaido? Oda dropped Roger and WB on us in Oden's so why not Rocks Pirates and Xebec in Kaido's? I NEED those onscreen panels of Prime Mom too.

If we get more on Shanks and Buggy I might literally scream too lol.



There's so much Oda needs to show and who knows what else he is hiding? I really hope the calamities get fleshed out more especially Jack and King now. King has so much to see and answer for. Katakuri's flashback was underwhelming but I hope King's is much better!
King has so much potential and I really hope Oda doesn't waste it. I'm still suffering from what he's done and not done for Smoothie!



I do think Oda has some genuinely brilliant stuff coming up, it's just getting there and him actually being able to show us. He has given us such massive lore dumps out of nowhere and as you were saying, there's so much he can show us and hopefully will soon!

We very much are going to see OP reach a new peak/prime by far if Oda does this right. For his sake and our own, I really hope he accomplishes it. Stuff like Senor Pinks, Laws, Doflamingos, Baby 5s, Big Mom's etc backstories were brilliant to me and I am extremely excited for Kaido's based on those too.
(I hated child Linlin being an unstoppable destructive machine that ruined Elbaf but I'm coming to accept it more very gradually over time.)

What are your thoughts about King? His background, who he might fight, etc?
I think we will get a fleshed out LinLin backstory during her mid years.
And there’s a lot of ground Oda needs to cover and plot lines to answer for Wano, which I don’t think he will be able to given his track record.

 

[Finalbeta]

I believe Wano is the reversed MF. In MF we have 2 good guys died, and now in Wano, we will have 2 bad guys die (Kaidou and Orochi)

Yes and if we looked at the fighting stage complexively we would find many similarities. Different places where the war is taking place, we even have a rooftop that might metaphorically constitute the top where Ace was being executed at.

 

[Gorosei Informer]

What are your thoughts about King? His background, who he might fight, etc?

He's the former Jailer of Simpel I mean Impel Down imo. The previous Shiryu. I think Kaido recruited him whilst simprisoned there. His outfit screams Impel Down, Sadie-Chan and him seem to be similar in personality/mentality (torture kink/sadists) and I can imagine a hilarious relationship between them.

I do suspect he might have been the one to design the different tortures of Impel Down, each floor of torture (Hell itself) may have been designed by him. He's got those massive Hell's Angel/fallen angel/Luciferian vibes to him. I kinda hope he has his own motorbike so he can be "Ghost Rider" although I rather see Brook do that with Franky's motorcylcle or something LOL. Soooooul Fiiiiire!

I think we will get a fleshed out LinLin backstory during her mid years.
And there’s a lot of ground Oda needs to cover and plot lines to answer for Wano, which I don’t think he will be able to given his track record.

I really hope we see Prime Mom with the eventual Rocks flashback but yeah would be interesting to see her mid years, her 30s to 40s at least maybe? I'm hoping each Yonko will get a dedicated novel in time, especially WB first ofc! Can't wait for him and Shanks to get one particularly!

That's exactly what I fear for Wano, there's so many breadcrumbs being put down, so many puzzle pieces but as usual with Oda, I think he is being too ambitious for his own good and I swear he's actually addicted to creating and thus adding new characters! Oda needs ot learn the meanings of excess and restraint! He's much better when he can focus on individual characters and give them actual screen time and development! (RIP Smoothie, Compote and Snack, even King too in this regard so far!)

But yeah, speaking of King, he has the potential to be amazing, even on Katakuri level ofc imo, I really like Katakuri and King has such amazing potential if Oda gives himself and King the chance. I do think King will get the spotlight and some point and hopefully we get some semblance of a backstory at least and we really dive deep into his character and fighting style. I mean he's the wildfire and he's barely using fire! I need to see him breathing fire in beast form too, like Rodan does I think?

:zorothink: :king:


Thanks for asking me anyway, I appreciate it!

 

[Finalbeta]

Eventually King's power level could be comparable to a Pre TS Shiryu's, I think probably somewhat stronger. I bet Current Shiryu is most likely more powerful than him complexively, but I will stall on a judgement.

 

[Gorosei Informer]

I forgot to add a few things @Blother :

1. I really want his race to be sky island based if possible, literally knocked down from the skies and thus from "Heaven" Icarus and Lucifer style
   
   
2. BM claims she is only missing 3 races (including giants ofc) but I don't remember her having any sky races in her territories, so maybe King could tie into this?
   
   
3. I think King's past could be very dark and tragic potentially, I hope he's not too simple (simple, simpel lol) but I see a lot of great gag potential with him too.
   
   
4. His relationship with Queen reminds me of Zoro and Sanji pre TS especially ofc and Jyabura and Kaku. I think Gangster Galdino and Bon Clay were like this too but not sure?
   
   
5. Kinemon got some badass fire themed moves in Pirate Warriors 4 and I really hope for King to fight like this, that's how pictured him to fight with his fire and sword ofc.
   
   The fact that the calamities are unplayable is a CRIME to me but at least the Sweet Generals are! (Along with Kiku and Urouge ftw! And BM and Kaido ofc!) Funnily enough, PW4 leaked some of Kaido's moves way ahead of the manga I believe (the dragon twister so far but maybe others too, he's said and shown to be able to use ice in it too for example), not sure about BM yet but probably the same and imo we're seeing Shanks true potential in these games and other ones, but especially these more recent games ofc (CoC haki lightning storm for example! haki blade projection!)
   
   
6. I really wanted to see a Zoro and Kinemon teamup vs King or Zoro and either Luffy or Sanji. All have great potential imo. Or if I really want to be wild, Kinemon and Kiku, maybe Kiku freezing his flames if she can but I don't think she can, she's aint no Aokiji ofc lol. I think King really deserves a Mr 1/Daz Bones style fight with Zoro though.
   
   
7. I really wanted to see why King lives up to his wildfire/conflagaration nickname too, the latter especially there, the conflagaration is such a badass epithet. I thought he was the one who started that massive forest fire or w/e but that was Kinemon and the others? I wanted to see King employ the Scorced Earth military tactic against the SH alliance/Wano citizens and be this ironically cold, pragmatic, brutal, cunning/calculating menace. He's felt very lackluster so far except for kicking the Mama Chanter off the waterfall ofc! With his Zoan, he can provide such an amazing aerial battle and the fact that Marco is fighting him makes me very happy at least.
   
   Lol a "few things"... Whoops!

 

[Jailer]

Kaido aint dying, CP0 gonna take a defeated Kaido to Vegapunk force him to create kore df's, Momo is going to show them that Vegapunk lied to them and the fruit wasn't a failure.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

I forgot to add a few things @Blother :

1. I really want his race to be sky island based if possible, literally knocked down from the skies and thus from "Heaven" Icarus and Lucifer style
2. BM claims she is only missing 3 races (including giants ofc) but I don't remember her having any sky races in her territories, so maybe King could tie into this?
3. I think King's past could be very dark and tragic potentially, I hope he's not too simple (simple, simpel lol) but I see a lot of great gag potential with him too.
   
   
4. His relationship with Queen reminds me of Zoro and Sanji pre TS especially ofc and Jyabura and Kaku. I think Gangster Galdino and Bon Clay were like this too but not sure?
   
   
5. Kinemon got some badass fire themed moves in Pirate Warriors 4 and I really hope for King to fight like this, that's how pictured him to fight with his fire and sword ofc.
   
   The fact that the calamities are unplayable is a CRIME to me but at least the Sweet Generals are! (Along with Kiku and Urouge ftw! And BM and Kaido ofc!) Funnily enough, PW4 leaked some of Kaido's moves way ahead of the manga I believe (the dragon twister so far but maybe others too, he's said and shown to be able to use ice in it too for example), not sure about BM yet but probably the same and imo we're seeing Shanks true potential in these games and other ones, but especially these more recent games ofc (CoC haki lightning storm for example! haki blade projection!)
   
   
6. I really wanted to see a Zoro and Kinemon teamup vs King or Zoro and either Luffy or Sanji. All have great potential imo. Or if I really want to be wild, Kinemon and Kiku, maybe Kiku freezing his flames if she can but I don't think she can, she's aint no Aokiji ofc lol. I think King really deserves a Mr 1/Daz Bones style fight with Zoro though.
   
   
7. I really wanted to see why King lives up to his wildfire/conflagaration nickname too, the latter especially there, the conflagaration is such a badass epithet. I thought he was the one who started that massive forest fire or w/e but that was Kinemon and the others? I wanted to see King employ the Scorced Earth military tactic against the SH alliance/Wano citizens and be this ironically cold, pragmatic, brutal, cunning/calculating menace. He's felt very lackluster so far except for kicking the Mama Chanter off the waterfall ofc! With his Zoan, he can provide such an amazing aerial battle and the fact that Marco is fighting him makes me very happy at least.
   
   Lol a "few things"... Whoops!

1. I think that's exactly what will happen
2. I think its X, Giants, and King race
3. I think he's fighting Zoro, so no gags
4. Yup
5. Kin'emon fighting King Aye I ain't think of that
6. 
   
7. King hopefully will get big stuff Act 4 (if thats a thing)

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

TLDR DOWN BELOW

This chapter confirmed that Momonosuke Dragon Devil Fruit is legitimate.
Either Vegapunk didn't want to give this to the WG or he truly felt it was a failure.
It ended up being a legitimate fruit working with the same/similar mechanics as Kaido's devil fruit does (possible assumption).

Okay, now that we addressed this, time to break the Fourth Wall.
IRL, Oda is notoriously known for killing off characters and bringing them back in a different form.
Whether it be under the guise of "Inherited Will" or through similar characteristics;
Oda has a penchant for doing this sort of stuff. Not saying this is good or bad.
My speculation is that wtvr devil fruit or ability the past person had, Oda transfers it to the new user to fully explain/flesh out.

Allow me to explain.

• Oda kills off Ace. Oda brings back Sabo (Luffys brother, Mera Mera User, 2nd in Command to a Powerful Individual)
• Oda kills off Whitebeard. WB Devil Fruit goes directly to BB. Whom, we will eventually see the full capabilities of his fruit with. One could even say Katakuri as well, (ex: never lied on his back, invincible, unbeatable, family, etc).
• Oda kills off Oden. Oden Cosplayer, Yamato enters the scene with "iNhErItEd wIlL". And not to mention, wtvr the fuckery that Ch1007+ brings us.
• Oda kills off Ryuma. Introduces Roronoa Zoro as reincarnation or Second Ryuma.
• Oda kills off Absalom to fully explore to Clear Clear Fruit through Shiryu (don't know if it was explained early in TB)

Now my theory is Momonosuke is given this weird panel section juxtaposing with what Cipher Pol was talking about, how they believe/hope the "failed" fruit is destroyed, when in actuality it survived and is in the soul of the future Shogun of Wano.

What does this have to do with Kaido? What I meant with what I said earlier is that, 2 of the same things cannot coexist in One Piece. (From my interpretation at least, I'd be more than happy to see someone refute this lazy claim.) Oda diversifies abilities, devil fruits, and characteristics to the individual (E.g. Nitoryu user of Past was Oden, present is Vista?, Future will be scabbards). Characters are usually not mirrors, although, they may take inspiration. At the very least they are not of the same era. Kaido also has the Dragon Fruit Model Seiryu like Momonosuke. And CP0 also mentioned Kaido specifically was experimented on by Vegapunk.

TLDR: Basically, what I'm trying to say is Kaido will die, just easily based off this chapter. Momonosuke and Kaido cannot coexist in the same realm having the same Overpowered Devil Fruit. Also, in a future Vegapunk mini-arc (hopefully), we may see Vegapunks reaction to his "failed" experiment should he have been serious/or lying about it.

I'd like to know if people still believe Kaido will survive post Wano. Interested in what reasons there still are for this.

@Cinera @bennbeckman @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna @Jew D. Boy @Light D Lamperouge @Marimo_420 @Roronoa-sama @yj
@Oblivion @Finalbeta @Fenaker @KiriNigiri @MonsterKaido @Kuro Ashi @Celestial D. Dragon @etc etc etc

I think parts of Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Whole Cake and Wano have all been setting up a Vegapunk arc. We've met characters who have worked with before: Caesar, Judge and possibly Queen. He also has connections to Kaido, Fujitora, Smoker, Sanji, Chopper and Franky. I think Vegapunk has his own agenda, probably related to Kaido's fruit. He probably won't be an enemy, but he won't really be an ally either. Maybe he'll be like a Hogback type of character. Also nice catch on the whole exploring different ways a Devil Fruit is used by different people, Like how Sabo uses his pipe and CoA abilities with his fruit.