Versus Battle QIN // WEI BLOODBATH: Q3 Invasion Army VS Fire Dragons & More - 265,000 VS 325,000

[Rumble]

Consider an alternate timeline wherein Earl Shi and Rei Ou survived the Choyou Campaign, living to fight another day.

It's 5 years in the future from the current timeline. Zhao and Han have fallen and the 6GGs are keeping an eye on Chu (Mou Bu & Ou Sen), Qi (Tou) and Yan (Yo Tan Wa), so it falls to the Q3 to return to Wei lands at the head of a great army and strike the first blow in the renewed campaign.

Based on the strength of his achievements in Zhao and Han, General Ri Shin is appointed Supreme Commander. Mou Ten and Ou Hon are to serve as his deputies.

It is understood the two best performers will take the remaining seats among the 6GG.

Wei naturally respond with numbers to meet them. Their armies are strengthened not only by the surviving Fire Dragons. Prior to the battle, Go Hou Mei successfully persuades #1 Ten Bows Ba Shu Ri (STR 97 LDR 84 INT 90 EXP S) out of retirement.

Additionally, after the fall of Zhao and Han, Ki Sui and Raku'A Kan both ended up accepting invitations to serve Wei.

For the purpose of this hypothetical, the location would be open enough to host a huge battle on terrain equally exploitable. Think Bayou.

All the elements in this timeline and battle are primed for violence. All parties are out for blood, to settle scores, or prove something.

QIN - 265,000 troops
Supreme Commander: Ri Shin [#1]
Deputies: Mou Ten [#2], Ou Hon [#3], Kyou Kai [#4]
Strategist: Ka Ryo Ten [#5]
Generals: Ai Sen, Riku Sen, A Ka Kin, Kan Jou, Ga Ro, So Sui,
Special: 5K Shi Ryou Elite Cavalry Unit (joined Gyoku Hou after Sou'Ou died)

CENTRE  - 105,000 Hi Shin Unit versus 145,000 Go Hou Mei Army
Vanguard - 20K Ka Ryo Ten Army (Lieutenant: Sou Jin)
Centre - 25K Ri Shin Army (Deputy: So Sui)
R Wing - 30K Kyou Kai Army (Lieutenant: Kyou Rei)
L Wing - 30K Ga Ro Army (Lieutenant: Man Dou)

Right Wing - 70,000 Gyoku Hou Army versus 90,000 Rei Ou + Earl Shi Army
Centre - 30K Ou Hon Army (Lieutenant: Shi Ryou)
R Wing - 20K A Ka Kin Army
L Wing - 20K Kan Jou Army

Left Wing - 90,000 Gaku Ka Army versus 90K Gai Mou + Raku'A Kan Army
R Wing - 30K Ai Sen Army
L Wing - 30K Riku Sen Army
Rear - 30K Mou Ten Army

VERSUS

WEI - 325,000 troops
Supreme Commander: Go Hou Mei [#1]
Deputies: Rei Ou [#2], Earl Shi [#3], Gai Mou [#4]
Strategist: Ha Ri [#5]
Generals: Ran Bi Haku, Jun Ei, Ryuu Han, Raku'A Kan, Yoko Yoko, Gyo En
Special: 5K Ba Shu Ri Unit [#1 Ten Bows]

Centre  - 145,000 Go Hou Mei Army versus 105,000 Hi Shin Unit
Vanguard  - 30K Rigan Army [Deputy: Ba Tei]
Centre - 40K Go Hou Mei Army
R Wing - 30K Jun Ei Army
L Wing - 40K Ryuu Han Army
Reserve - 5K Ba Shuri Unit

Right Wing - 90,000 Gai Mou + Raku'A Kan Army versus 90,000 Gaku Ka Army
Centre - 70K Gai Mou Army [Lieutenant: Jun Sou]
Reserve - 20K Raku'A Kan Army [Lieutenant: Yoko Yoko]

Left Wing - 90,000 Rei'Ou + Earl Shi Army versus: 70,000 Gyoku Hou Army
Vanguard 20K Ran Bi Haku Army
Centre - 50K Rei'Ou Army
Reserve - 20K Earl Shi Army

How does this battle unfold?

I think I've set up quite a few obstacles for the Q3 to get past.

 

[Bullet]

It depends how much in the future this is and how much they've grown
I think they can take this if they are at that 6gg level
Bum shi already lost to Ouhon
Shin could slay Gaimou right now probably
Kyoukai is taking Ranbihaku's head
There is no martial threat they can't handle
I'd say with Shin's instincts and Ouhon + Mouten's tactical abilities they can overcome Houmei, Rei Ou and Rakua'kan

 

[Rumble]

Accidentally posted too soon, but it should be fine now.

It depends how much in the future this is and how much they've grown
I think they can take this if they are at that 6gg level
Bum shi already lost to Ouhon
Shin could slay Gaimou right now probably
Kyoukai is taking Ranbihaku's head
There is no martial threat they can't handle
I'd say with Shin's instincts and Ouhon + Mouten's tactical abilities they can overcome Houmei, Rei Ou and Rakua'kan

For the purpose of this hypothetical:

• consider it about 5 years from the current timeline
• consider that Fire Dragons released from jail will be stronger after having worked the rust off

Also look at the specific match ups: Shin and Kyou Kai aren't facing Gai Mou or Ran Bi Haku. They're facing a different set of challenges.

I've tried to make the match ups as challenging for Qin as possible because of how talent stacked they are.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

I really like this scenario.

I might fully write up my thoughts, but there are a few things I'm considering:

The addition of Rakua'kan might be a huge game changer for the Wei. He might truly be onpar with the 3 old Fire Dragons.

Shin vs Gouhoumei can be considered to be a rematch of Gokei and Duke Hyou. Though since Gouhoumei clashed with the Duke himself, he should be more prepared for the instinctual type better than his father was. No one in the center is a martial threat to Shin and Kyoukai.

Reiou + Earl Shi + Ranbihaku is an extremely deadly combination.

 

[Rumble]

I really like this scenario.

I might fully write up my thoughts, but there are a few things I'm considering:

The addition of Rakua'kan might be a huge game changer for the Wei. He might truly be onpar with the 3 old Fire Dragons.

Shin vs Gouhoumei can be considered to be a rematch of Gokei and Duke Hyou. Though since Gouhoumei clashed with the Duke himself, he should be more prepared for the instinctual type better than his father was. No one in the center is a martial threat to Shin and Kyoukai.

Reiou + Earl Shi + Ranbihaku is an extremely deadly combination.

Thank you.

I aimed to make the match ups for the Q3 very tough but fair.

• Go Hou Mei is playing with a stacked deck. Ka Ryo Ten can't really be expected to keep up with his level of warfare, so it's really going to come down to Shin's talent, skill experience and Instincts
• Rei'Ou + Ran Bi Haku + Earl Shi is indeed a deadly combination. Ou Hon is going to have to step up as a leader and trust his officers to execute without fail
• Gai Mou on his own would be a tall order for Mou Ten to face, but with the addition of serious brainpower in Raku'A Kan and additional muscle in Yoko Yoko, I might have given Mou Ten the most challenging battle of them all

Each of these is winnable but the paths to victory are narrow and extremely difficult, if I do say so myself.

 

[Bullet]

Each of these is winnable but the paths to victory are narrow and extremely difficult, if I do say so myself.

On the wings yeah sure
I might even say Wei takes it but the center is too one sided for Qin
I already expect Shin to match GHM with instincts but there is no martial threat to stop him or Kyoukai
Archer bros for the Ten bow dude
The rest can barely even match the officers of the HSU
Sosui, Garo, Denyu, Kyou Rei etc.. with some tactical help from Ten will get the better of the pretty boy general and the rest
If Gaimou and maybe even Ranbihaku aren't called back to the center (weakening the wings) Shin is gonna be glaiving his way to the HQ while Kyou kai is destroying their army and forcing GHM to retreat

 

[Rumble]

On the wings yeah sure
I might even say Wei takes it but the center is too one sided for Qin
I already expect Shin to match GHM with instincts but there is no martial threat to stop him or Kyoukai
Archer bros for the Ten bow dude
The rest can barely even match the officers of the HSU
Sosui, Garo, Denyu, Kyou Rei etc.. with some tactical help from Ten will get the better of the pretty boy general and the rest
If Gaimou and maybe even Ranbihaku aren't called back to the center (weakening the wings) Shin is gonna be glaiving his way to the HQ while Kyou kai is destroying their army and forcing GHM to retreat

I think the way it plays out in the middle, Shin will be too tied down in his HQ to exploit the strength of his army when he leads from the front.

At the van, Ka Ryo Ten has 10K fewer than the Rigan Army.

Kyou Kai, while a top tier warrior, is going against a 40K Ryuu Han Army spearheaded by the Golden Calvary Company that performed well against Sen To'Un. Considering Kyou Kai's stamina can only last so long, it's not like she can sustain an entire battle cutting them down, she's going to have to find a more conventional military response as a general.

It's fair to presume Ga Ro would be at a disadvantage against Jun Ei, who serves as the right hand to the head of Wei's military and Fire Dragons.

Ba Shu Ri remains a wildcard that can appear anywhere and potentially assassinate officers in the various units. They surely call him God Bow for a reason.

Considering Wei have a 40K advantage in numbers too, they're well positioned for victory. At the very least, they'll put up a good fight. That's how I see it anyway, but I'm more than open to read your take on it.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

• Go Hou Mei is playing with a stacked deck. Ka Ryo Ten can't really be expected to keep up with his level of warfare, so it's really going to come down to Shin's talent, skill experience and Instincts

Yeah I completely agree. Qin's key to victory will be Shin's instincts and the martial might of Shin and Kyoukai and Kyourei.

I would have given Gouhoumei a heavy hitter. Bashuri can be gamechanging, but I think a strong martial focused general who could at least contend with Shin for a bit would be a great help. Gouhoumei may retreat like he did in the Fire Dragons arc if one of KK and Shin get too close imo.

• Rei'Ou + Ran Bi Haku + Earl Shi is indeed a deadly combination. Ou Hon is going to have to step up as a leader and trust his officers to execute without fail

I believe Akakin could stall Ranbihaku like he did against Bananji. If his tactics worked against the significantly smarter Bananji, they should work against Ranbihaku. This could give Ouhon an opportunity to take the head of either Earl Shi or Reiou. Earl Shi will be extremely deadly to Ouhon, but I'd bet on Ouhon having an easier time at slaying him if we presume Earl Shi has the same mindset he did during the Fire Dragon arc.

• Gai Mou on his own would be a tall order for Mou Ten to face, but with the addition of serious brainpower in Raku'A Kan and additional muscle in Yoko Yoko, I might have given Mou Ten the most challenging battle of them all

I really don't see a way for Mouten to win. He's going against a martial top tier, and someone who should be comparable to Kochou at bare minimum in brainpower imo (96 Intelligence, same as Genpou). Yoko Yoko should be much stronger than Aisen too imo. Worst case scenario, he has to deal with a pincer from Gaimou and Yoko Yoko which is a death sentence.

He'll have to stall them, and hope that Shin interferes to slay Gaimou imo. I think Mouten will, however realize that the key to victory is targeting Raku'Kan and Gaimou's strategist.

Just like how many Zhao generals survived the Battle of Shukai, no way Wei will lose all of their commanders.

And if Hara drew this, I guarantee every single one of the trio would lose a commander.

Post automatically merged: Jan 11, 2024

those are just my takes, I might be misremembering and underestimating the Wei generals in the center.

 

[Rumble]

Yeah I completely agree. Qin's key to victory will be Shin's instincts and the martial might of Shin and Kyoukai and Kyourei.

I would have given Gouhoumei a heavy hitter. Bashuri can be gamechanging, but I think a strong martial focused general who could at least contend with Shin for a bit would be a great help. Gouhoumei may retreat like he did in the Fire Dragons arc if one of KK and Shin get too close imo.

I agree. I wanted to give Ran Bi Haku to GHM, but it doesn't suit the scenario and I reasoned that Shin and Kyou Kai would be occupied mostly leading and commanding from the rear.

I believe Akakin could stall Ranbihaku like he did against Bananji. If his tactics worked against the significantly smarter Bananji, they should work against Ranbihaku. This could give Ouhon an opportunity to take the head of either Earl Shi or Reiou. Earl Shi will be extremely deadly to Ouhon, but I'd bet on Ouhon having an easier time at slaying him if we presume Earl Shi has the same mindset he did during the Fire Dragon arc.

My thinking was similar to yours. I definitely think A Ka Kin is capable of keeping RBH at bay at least for a little while.

Kan Jou will never reach Rei Ou's level, but he can follow instructions like the best of them and has demonstrated a strength for making adjustments. Ou Hon could trust him to hold a defensive posture whenever he sorties.

Under the most ideal circumstances, I could see the Gyoku Hou really shine by using A Ka Kin as bait and having Kan Jou do his part to temporarily mask Ou Hon's movements so he can ambush and eliminate Ran Bi Haku or Rei Ou early.

I really don't see a way for Mouten to win. He's going against a martial top tier, and someone who should be comparable to Kochou at bare minimum in brainpower imo (96 Intelligence, same as Genpou). Yoko Yoko should be much stronger than Aisen too imo. Worst case scenario, he has to deal with a pincer from Gaimou and Yoko Yoko which is a death sentence.

He'll have to stall them, and hope that Shin interferes to slay Gaimou imo. I think Mouten will, however realize that the key to victory is targeting Raku'Kan and Gaimou's strategist.

It's a very tough assignment, for sure. I see this more being a case of Mou Ten being expected to act as a shield.

Mou Ten is probably the most suitable for a defensive battle. It would be a fantastic setting for him to demonstrate the genius Shou Hei Kun sees in him. Considering the way Mou Ten handled himself with just 5K at Shukai, I'm really curious what kind of tactics and formations he would use. He's a very daring individual and I think that's probably just as important to have when facing a challenge like this.

Really, if Mou Ten could succeed to just eliminate Yoko Yoko, he could win the battle by holding his position.

Just like how many Zhao generals survived the Battle of Shukai, no way Wei will lose all of their commanders.

And if Hara drew this, I guarantee every single one of the trio would lose a commander.

I don't think it's a guarantee they lose officers, but my goal was basically to draw up scenarios where that is highly likely to be the case unless the Q3 are operating at the top of their game.