Powers & Abilities The final “Sword Skill” thread

[ImmaIvanoM]

What do you think “sword skill” means? And what does having “superior sword skill” mean?

Do remember that Brook calls his Music attacks his swordsmanship? As in when Brook pulls out his violin and uses his sword to strum the strings and create music that knocks out fodder, this is counted as swordsmanship both by Brook and by the logic of the one piece verse.

Now take brook and extrapolate everything we’ve ever seen a swordsman do. Zoro and Kin’emon create fire spontaneously from their swords. Zoro can create a Soul Aura that can cut people. Lightning McGuy and Niji create lightning from their swords. Law and Fujitora channel their DFs in their swords. Hyouzo uses poison on his 8 sword style. Brook and Nusjuro use freezing blade attacks. Kaku uses his legs to create cutting air slashes in his sword style. Big mom, Dory and Broggy use air canons in their swordsmanship. Shanks and Zoro use AdvCoC in their sword slashes.

Everything I listed above is considered “Sword skill” in One piece. And everything above is INFERIOR to Mihawk’s sword skill.

Why though? Why is Brook’s music and freezing sword skills inferior to Mihawk’s sword skill? Well, because Mihawk would defeat Brook in 1v1 combat. Swordsmanship is a fighting style. The only way of proving the superiority of your sword skill is by winning a fight.

Mihawk is the Strongest Swordsman in the world because his Swordsmanship is superior to every Sword skill listed above and its superiority can only exist if Mihawk can defeat everyone above with his swords skills.

 

[Kiri]

Sword techniques.

So how great of an affect your sword techniques achieve.

So Mihawk being the greatest, means his sword attacks are the greatest, meaning they achieve the greatest affect.

This means even if people exist who have joyboy levels of haki, and use their strongest haki in a sword attack, it's still inferior to the affect Mihawk can achieve with his greatest swordsmanship.

Because you use haki to amplify and achieve greater affects with your swordsmanship. If Shanks haki made his sword attacks greater than Mihawk's in terms of the affect achieved, in terms of damage done or finality or AP, then Shanks would be the greatest swordsman, but he's not.

This is why Zoro learning to utilise all of his coc haki in his attacks, will allow him to surpass shanks swordsmanship, before combatting Mihawk.

Even if you wanted to say Zoro's haki will still be weaker than shanks at that point, just think about the amount of bullshit zoro has access to when it comes to Asura or king of hell. To keep it simple whats worse? being hit once by a divine departure, or being hit 9 times with slightly weaker divine departures. With some extra bullshit of king of hell style somehow cleaving into your soul and ripping it to shreds and sending it to the underworld.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

So how great of an affect your sword techniques achieve.

But what about sword techniques that have no measure upon Mihawk’s sword techniques

the Measure of how good Brook’s music sword style is how many people it can knock out. The measure of T-Bone’s sword skill is how many right angles his sword slashes can bend. The measure of Brook’s freezing sword style is how cold his frost is. The measure of Hyouzo’s poison sword attacks is whether they can hit and how fast the poison kills.

Not everything is as “direct” as AP or AOE or DC. The biggest slash isn’t the determinant for “superior skill” since VERY MANY sword skills have nothing to do with AP or AoE or DC… The one thing that unifies every single sword skill from every single swordsman in the verse is, THEY MUST BE USED TO WIN A FIGHT.

since every single sword style is a fighting style, the only measurable way of proving “superiority” of one sword skill above another is how well it wins a fight.

If you don’t win the fight, you are the inferior swordsman with the inferior Swordmanship. It doesn’t matter how many bizarre random gimmicks or AP or whatever your sword skills use. You lost. And that’s the end of it.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

whatever the fuck oda decides

 

[Kiri]

They're all inferior swordsmanship that have to rely on gimmicks, we know abilities can be countered with haki, and we know that if someone got killed by a poisoned blade for example, thats on you for getting hit by the poison, there's no excuse. I agree in this regard.

It's like if magellan was a swordsman and could imbue his attacks with the lethality of his df. It's up to a swordsman to use ryuou in their swordsmanship to counter, kind of like how shanks blocks akainu's magma fist.

You're coming up with your own criteria though and making your own personal statement that these techniques don't measure to Mihawk's techniques, because they have a crutch.

The way you win a fight also obviously has to do with ones skill. Swordsmanship is a combination of skill and spirit.
Just refer to brook vs ryuuma, i'm getting bored of bringing that up though.

 

[Salah WG]

Sword Skill = What can you do involving a Sword. (Anything)

 

[Franosuke]

Any attack or feat performed with a sword is a sword skill, pretty evident after last chapter.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

You're coming up with your own criteria though and making your own personal statement that these techniques don't measure to Mihawk's techniques, because they have a crutch.

What do you mean “I’m coming up with my own criteria”?

in the manga there exists a “hierarchy of sword skill”. This was brought up when Brannew says Mihawk’s sword skills have is superior to Shanks.

As in there are ways of proving that someone’s sword skills are superior to another persons.

so the question arises, what would prove that Mihawk’s sword skills are superior to Brook’s 3 sword styles. Brook has freezing blade swordsmanship to focuses on freezing. He has music swordsmanship that focuses on how his music affects the soul of his opponent. And he has his original Fencing style which is about fencing stances and stabs and ripostes.

As far as we can tell, Mihawk has nothing even similar to these things. Yet Mihawk is supposedly the superior swordsman to Brook. Why is that? Why is Mihawk’s Swordmanship considered better than Brook’s ability to literally affect the souls of his enemies with music?

The only answer I can find in the manga is that Mihawk can defeat Brook in 1v1 combat and that’s why Brook’s abilities are considered “inferior” to Mihawk

 

[Kiri]

What do you mean “I’m coming up with my own criteria”?

in the manga there exists a “hierarchy of sword skill”. This was brought up when Brannew says Mihawk’s sword skills have is superior to Shanks.

As in there are ways of proving that someone’s sword skills are superior to another persons.

so the question arises, what would prove that Mihawk’s sword skills are superior to Brook’s 3 sword styles. Brook has freezing blade swordsmanship to focuses on freezing. He has music swordsmanship that focuses on how his music affects the soul of his opponent. And he has his original Fencing style which is about fencing stances and stabs and ripostes.

As far as we can tell, Mihawk has nothing even similar to these things. Yet Mihawk is supposedly the superior swordsman to Brook. Why is that? Why is Mihawk’s Swordmanship considered better than Brook’s ability to literally affect the souls of his enemies with music?

The only answer I can find in the manga is that Mihawk can defeat Brook in 1v1 combat and that’s why Brook’s abilities are considered “inferior” to Mihawk

I already told you why, but you don't like the answer

You're trying to separate and categorize swordsmanship because they do different things like freezing etc, that separation is wrong. It's just you trying to organise something that doesn't need organising

 

[kekaro]

I dont think, i know it means something else than pure strength/haki, as it clearly it doesnt for oda:

Now does that mean Shanks > Mihawk? No, however its clearly not a exchangable word for haki or some else like people pretend to be ignoring the clear author intetnion. Only he can answer that what he means with "sword skill", he was a assistant for Rurono Kenshin after all

>Inbefore 4 pages cope how Daimyo Fugetsu has actualy higher ACOC mastery that Wano zoro that i will ignore cause my retard pensum is full for this week

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:24 PM

whatever the fuck oda decides

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Any attack or feat performed with a sword is a sword skill, pretty evident after last chapter.

Sword Skill = What can you do involving a Sword. (Anything)

whatever the fuck oda decides

then the question is, how exactly does one have “superior” sword skill to another person given the vast VAST variety of what swordsmanship is and does. There are sword skills that literally do nothing similar to other sword skills so how do you even start comparing to find the superior one?

I already told you why, but you don't like the answer

You're trying to separate and categorize swordsmanship because they do different things like freezing etc, that separation is wrong. It's just you trying to organise something that doesn't need organising

but it is organized in the manga. There’s a heirarchy of Swordsmanship. Mihawk is at the top of it. There wouldn’t be a “top of all swordsmen” if there was no possible way or organizing swordsmen into a ladder that Zoro can climb to the top

i know it means something else than pure strength/haki, as it clearly it doesnt for oda:

Correct. It doesn’t mean One stat such as haki. You can have better haki than someone and then that person simply SPEED BLITZES YOU and cuts your head off before you show off your superior Haki AP.

One stat can’t decide who is a better swordsman. So it’s better to say, the Swordsman who won the fight is the better swordsman, right? I mean why wouldn’t the Speed Blitzing Swordsman be better than the Superior Haki swordsman who got beheaded.

 

[kekaro]

Correct. It doesn’t mean One stat such as haki. You can have better haki than someone and then that person simply SPEED BLITZES YOU and cuts your head off before you show off your superior Haki AP.

One stat can’t decide who is a better swordsman. So it’s better to say, the Swordsman who won the fight is the better swordsman, right? I mean why wouldn’t the Speed Blitzing Swordsman be better than the Superior Haki swordsman who got beheaded.

Could be, im not saying you are wrong. Im just saying i can only say with determination what it DOESNT mean and highlight those options, direct coming from the author, as the headcanon of most of the people in the forum is.
What is ultimativly is in odas eye? Cant say. Can be something like you say, could be something more artistic.
Oda is pretty ambigious till now, im assuming on purpouse

 

[Salah WG]

then the question is, how exactly does one have “superior” sword skill to another person given the vast VAST variety of what swordsmanship is and does. There are sword skills that literally do nothing similar to other sword skills so how do you even start comparing to find the superior one?

Just like Zoro & Mihawk did in Baratie,
You do whatever you want with your Sword, i do whatever i want, whoever emerges Victorious, it means their Swordsmanship was Superior,
It's that Simple,

Mihawk being Greatest means He can't be Defeated by anything ever possible to do involving a Sword.

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

What do you think “sword skill” means? And what does having “superior sword skill” mean?

Do remember that Brook calls his Music attacks his swordsmanship? As in when Brook pulls out his violin and uses his sword to strum the strings and create music that knocks out fodder, this is counted as swordsmanship both by Brook and by the logic of the one piece verse.

Now take brook and extrapolate everything we’ve ever seen a swordsman do. Zoro and Kin’emon create fire spontaneously from their swords. Zoro can create a Soul Aura that can cut people. Lightning McGuy and Niji create lightning from their swords. Law and Fujitora channel their DFs in their swords. Hyouzo uses poison on his 8 sword style. Brook and Nusjuro use freezing blade attacks. Kaku uses his legs to create cutting air slashes in his sword style. Big mom, Dory and Broggy use air canons in their swordsmanship. Shanks and Zoro use AdvCoC in their sword slashes.

Everything I listed above is considered “Sword skill” in One piece. And everything above is INFERIOR to Mihawk’s sword skill.

Why though? Why is Brook’s music and freezing sword skills inferior to Mihawk’s sword skill? Well, because Mihawk would defeat Brook in 1v1 combat. Swordsmanship is a fighting style. The only way of proving the superiority of your sword skill is by winning a fight.

Mihawk is the Strongest Swordsman in the world because his Swordsmanship is superior to every Sword skill listed above and its superiority can only exist if Mihawk can defeat everyone above with his swords skills.

Being Big Daddy Saran equals having superior swords skill

 

[MonochromeYoru]

then the question is, how exactly does one have “superior” sword skill to another person given the vast VAST variety of what swordsmanship is and does. There are sword skills that literally do nothing similar to other sword skills so how do you even start comparing to find the superior one?

as i said, whatever the fuck oda decides

he ain't gotta explain shit. he can just say x is a sword skill and y is not

 

[Kiri]

then the question is, how exactly does one have “superior” sword skill to another person given the vast VAST variety of what swordsmanship is and does. There are sword skills that literally do nothing similar to other sword skills so how do you even start comparing to find the superior one?

but it is organized in the manga. There’s a heirarchy of Swordsmanship. Mihawk is at the top of it. There wouldn’t be a “top of all swordsmen” if there was no possible way or organizing swordsmen into a ladder that Zoro can climb to the top



Correct. It doesn’t mean One stat such as haki. You can have better haki than someone and then that person simply SPEED BLITZES YOU and cuts your head off before you show off your superior Haki AP.

One stat can’t decide who is a better swordsman. So it’s better to say, the Swordsman who won the fight is the better swordsman, right? I mean why wouldn’t the Speed Blitzing Swordsman be better than the Superior Haki swordsman who got beheaded.

"but it is organized in the manga. There’s a heirarchy of Swordsmanship. Mihawk is at the top of it. There wouldn’t be a “top of all swordsmen” if there was no possible way or organizing swordsmen into a ladder that Zoro can climb to the top "

Zoro doesn't even fight swordsmen in his climb to the top, showing that swordsmanship is not about actively comparing different styles of swordsmanship, but rather the effectiveness of ones own swordsmanship against The World

As the manga explicitly says, the pinnacle of swordsmanship is to cut what one wishes to cut, and to protect what one wishes to protect. It's about bending the blade to your will, it's about the refinement of the application of your will. It's as much about subtlety as much as it is about raw strength.

Mihawk exceeds in all of this, above everyone else. His control over the leverage of his blade in all aspects and everything that encompasses, is at the pinnacle.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Just like Zoro & Mihawk did in Baratie,
You do whatever you want with your Sword, i do whatever i want, whoever emerges Victorious, it means their Swordsmanship was Superior,
It's that Simple,

Mihawk being Greatest means He can't be Defeated by anything ever possible to do involving a Sword.

I agree

As the manga explicitly says, the pinnacle of swordsmanship is to cut what one wishes to cut, and to protect what one wishes to protect. It's about bending the blade to your will, it's about the refinement of the application of your will. It's as much about subtlety as much as it is about raw strength.

Mihawk exceeds in all of this, above everyone else. His control over the leverage of his blade in all aspects and everything that encompasses, is at the pinnacle.

well no, This is what Koushiro, Zoro’s master says. And we have proof that this isn’t a universal philosophy of swordsmanship.

Zoro was a follower of his master’s sword philosophy all the way up to Wano. The Sword must only cut what the Swordsman wants it to cut. Zoro had mastered this for 800 chapters until he failed to do it in Wano. In that scene where he was Holding Enma and trying to cut a Tree AND ONLY A TREE, and then Enma took his haki and cut a cliff side.

Enma is an explicit departure from Zoro’s Master’s philosophy which is even more ironic since Zoro had to recall his master’s FATHER’s philosophy to use Enma. According to Kozaburo, Koushiro’s father. The actual way of using swords is letting them kill as much as possible. Swords are killing machines so the best swords are the ones that kill the most. Kozaburo is even the one that explained what “cursed swords” are. That swords are called cursed just because weaklings end up getting scared the their swords kill so effectively.

When Enma cut a cliff instead of a Tree like Zoro wanted, that’s the correct way Enma operates. It cuts as much as it wants. And it demands as much haki to do it as it wants. This was Zoro’s lesson in the King fight. He has to give Enma as much haki as it demands even it kills him, or else the sword won’t let him use it.

So that was a long explanation to say that Koushiro, Zoro’s masters has the fact opposite sword philosophy as his own Father. And Zoro follows both sword philosophies from time to time in different situations that require them.

Meaning there isn’t actually any such “universal sword philosophy” that the best swordsman in the world is supposedly following

 

[Wizak08]

Swordskills = strength of a swordsman. We know that even two people with the same swordsmanship/swordstyle can be different power level with Ryuma gaping Brook due to physicals.

 

[Rivaille]

Like a lot of people on that subject you are over complicated things.
The strongest swordsmanship is the swordsmanship that can defeat all the others. And the only way to know who have the strongest swordsmanship is to have people fighting each other.

Remember we are reading a shonen aimed for the 13 years old, not some thesis for the Nobel prize in biology.

 

[Master OF Haki]

What do you think “sword skill” means? And what does having “superior sword skill” mean?

Do remember that Brook calls his Music attacks his swordsmanship? As in when Brook pulls out his violin and uses his sword to strum the strings and create music that knocks out fodder, this is counted as swordsmanship both by Brook and by the logic of the one piece verse.

Now take brook and extrapolate everything we’ve ever seen a swordsman do. Zoro and Kin’emon create fire spontaneously from their swords. Zoro can create a Soul Aura that can cut people. Lightning McGuy and Niji create lightning from their swords. Law and Fujitora channel their DFs in their swords. Hyouzo uses poison on his 8 sword style. Brook and Nusjuro use freezing blade attacks. Kaku uses his legs to create cutting air slashes in his sword style. Big mom, Dory and Broggy use air canons in their swordsmanship. Shanks and Zoro use AdvCoC in their sword slashes.

Everything I listed above is considered “Sword skill” in One piece. And everything above is INFERIOR to Mihawk’s sword skill.

Why though? Why is Brook’s music and freezing sword skills inferior to Mihawk’s sword skill? Well, because Mihawk would defeat Brook in 1v1 combat. Swordsmanship is a fighting style. The only way of proving the superiority of your sword skill is by winning a fight.

Mihawk is the Strongest Swordsman in the world because his Swordsmanship is superior to every Sword skill listed above and its superiority can only exist if Mihawk can defeat everyone above with his swords skills.

How did Mihawk become the WSS though? What did he do to earn it?