The importance of raw talent.

[FutureWarrior123]

In many series that delves into an etablished power ceiling that the protagonist has to climb towards at the endpoint, there is always the question of raw talent vs effort that inevitably gets brought up. Luffy, Naruto, Ichigo...

Looking at Kingdom as a series that leans heavily into traditional shonen tropes, the protagonist Shin falls under a similar bracket of these archetypes who start from a low-point and make their way through a gradual progression up the staircase. However, one notable trait that is a welcomed inclusion that sets the foundation for Shin's goals and aspirations is his completely humble background as a slave. This is in direct contrast to the aforementioned MC's who end up possessing some special/important bloodline that for some readers, recontextualizes the journey they went through since the beginning as being in some way, ''carried'' by their genetics.

However, the one undeniable fact that can't be ignored is that regardless of Shin's position in society, he is a full blown prodigy at warfare to the absolute core. His exponential growth compared to any other in the series (maybe besides Kyou.) is a testament to the hidden potential that has been evident since the first two arcs where he's been consistently the strongest link in his group in both leadership and strength.

He is no doubt a gifted individual that is benefited by strong genetics, regardless of his weak lineage.

Which brings me to my question, how much does talent factor into reaching the level of some of the strongest generals we've seen in the story? Hard work certainly plays a factor no doubt, but is it a necessity to have prodigious ability into the mix as well? Can any normal guy like Heki studying strategy books for decades ever reach the acumen of legends like Rinshoujou or Koshou?

Or is it the sad cold reality that the people who make it to the top possess a spark within them that has existed since birth? Are average individuals doomed to simply end up as the ''Mougou's and Heki's'' of the world? Is Heki simply incapable of being a great general under the heavens regardless of how much effort he puts in?

@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @God Buggy @MarineHQ @TheKnightOfTheSea @Bullet @SakazOuki @Bepo @RayanOO ect ect

 

[Owl Ki]

Raw talent is without a doubt important. Exceptional individuals are exceptional because they are inherently special. If the average bloke could become a Renpa type through hard work then there should be loads of Renpa types running around but there aren't. Heki types will forever be near the average, their pinnacle being above average.

Raw talent does need to be nurtured but those without that talent will never reach the same peaks. Iron can be tempered into steel, bronze can't.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

I think it’s a mix of talent and hard work. Your Kanmei’s and Shibashou’s of the world are definitely born, there’s no question about that. You aren’t going to grow into an eight foot tall monster no matter how hard you train, that comes from birth and nothing else. I’m sure Kanmei and Shibashou train as hard as anybody but their sheer sizes are not attainable through hard work.

The debate becomes more difficult to quantify when looking at someone like Riboku though. Riboku is taller than average but he is not some physical monster. His muscles came from training, he wasn’t born a superhuman freak, and 99% of Riboku’s greatness as a general comes from his mind.

So can any mind reach the level of Riboku? I certainly think so, it just depends on who trains you and how you study, your disposition and upbringing, how your experiences affect your worldviews, etc.

The straight up fact about guys like Riboku and Hakuki irl is that these guys had dozens of other high level minds around them that contributed to their success. History remembers the name of Hakuki, but not Hakuki’s advisors who contributed majorly to his success. In Kingdom it’s a bit different, but Riboku also does have those guys surrounding him who contribute to his success. So did Ouki, so did Renpa, so did literally everyone.

So I like to think that while not everybody can be a Shibashou, just about anyone can be an Ousen or a Riboku or a Rinshoujou. Yeah to an extent great minds are born with that acumen also but who’s to say EOS Heki can’t give Ousen a solid fight?

TLDR; it’s both being born with a natural aptitude, but also honing your innate abilities through hard work and training. Hard work will always trump natural talent, but natural talent plus hard work will usually trump hard work probably.

 

[Bullet]

Hard work is more important than talent but to reach the top you need the talent
Let's say if you want to reach a 100 only 80 of it is hardwork and the rest of that is talent
Mougoat and Heki will never reach Renpa because guys like Renpa have that hard work + their talent
Guys that stand out other than their experience in battle or studies have always had something special about them too
RSJ is a never before seen genious so even if Garyuu is working hard to serve his master and goes on to live much longer and gain greater knowledge he never came even close to him despite being talented himself
Duke and his maxed out instincts
Kanki and his genious
Mouten and his unbelievable talent
Keisha the prodigy etc..
You can't take a random hard working dude and train him to martialy match someone like Ouki or intellectually play Riboku

 

[FutureWarrior123]

So can any mind reach the level of Riboku? I certainly think so, it just depends on who trains you and how you study, your disposition and upbringing, how your experiences affect your worldviews, etc.

Well we also have to remember is that among the great generals we've known so far, Riboku was by far one of the youngest we've seen when first introduced back in Bayou. Yet, he was more competenet than some of the oldest sons of a bitches who have been in the game for decades upon decades lol.

Though your original point was likely if such a mind is even possible to reach without innate talent like Riboku, in which case it's certaintly a debate to be had. Let's say Heki had the childhood dream of wanting to become a Six General and worked to fullfill that goal no matter what it took, do you think it's within his reach to achieve something like that given enough time?

And if so, what prevented Mougou from reaching such a level? He may not have been necessarily gifted in the art of warfare, but does motivation and passion also factor into it?