Hello everyone,
Today we’re going to take an in depth look at the tactics and strategy utilized by Seika during Hango.
I often see people saying that Seika is solely a martial army with the ability for great morale raising via Shibashou’s leadership, and while I don’t disagree with those things, I wanted to take a look at their tactics and strategy as well because Seika showed strong tactics right from the start.
In my opinion, Seika is truly a fully realized 3GH tier army. They aren’t just some decent soldiers under the command of a Houken, they show a high level at all three aspects of warfare: martial might, morale raising, and tactics. Seika at one point had Ousen’s subordinates completely dancing to their tune, utilizing deception and trickery to utterly run Ousen’s generals in circles. And all of Ousen’s generals, especially Denrimi, are strong when it comes to tactical and strategic knowledge. That said, Seika still completely outplayed them all in a strategic sense and I’m about to make that case.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying Shibashou/Kansaro/Gakushou are better tacticians or smarter than Akou or Denrimi. I am solely saying that Seika’s ability to strategically outplay these two shows that Seika is a tactically strong army.
So let’s do this.
The first big strategic move of Seika’s is the feint that catches both Denrimi and Sou Ou completely off guard.
The feint begins with the straightforward advance of Jiaga, Kansaro, and Shibashou’s armies.
Interestingly, it appears that Gakushou himself didn’t know that Kansaro was coming to join him, and we can tell this from the fact that Gakushou retroactively decides to make room for Kansaro’s attack.
This in and of itself could indicate a high degree of planning and tactical ability from Kansaro/Shibashou, whichever of the two of them was the mastermind of this plan (assuming it wasn’t Riboku). The fact that Gakushou didn’t know Kansaro was coming to his aid shows us one of two things:
1. Either the decision to keep Gakushou in the dark was made intentionally so that Gakushou wouldn’t accidentally give away the battle by the way he positioned his troops,
2. Or this plan of attack was made retroactively and Gakushou is just naturally reacting to the position and trajectory of Kansaro’s army.
Either way, I think this really hypes Seika’s tactics because it shows that they aren’t just blindly advancing into battle like we’ve seen other Great General armies do, there is a method to their plan of attack.
I think the idea that Gakushou was kept in the dark of the overall plan is reinforced by Kansaro’s reaction:
“In that case…” definitely makes it seem like this wasn’t pre-planned and that this is Gakushou naturally reacting to army positioning.
Which again would seem to go against the notion that this was all pre-planned by Riboku since Seika seems to be operating of their own accord on the battlefield.
Now skipping ahead a bit to after Denrimi reinforces Sou’Ou against Jiaga and we get this:
The Shibashou main army directly targets the reinforcing Denrimi army. And this is really where we actually start to see Seika tactically outplay Ousen’s generals.
We know in hindsight that Shibashou’s true target was not Denrimi, but was instead the Ousen main army. But the Ousen army is made to believe that Shibashou is targeting them:
We can see the shock from both Denrimi and Akou at the advancing Shibashou main army, because they were under the belief that the Shibashou main army was charging straight for Denrimi.
But of course:
The Shibashou army only hits Denrimi with a glancing blow while continuing their charge to their true target, the Ousen main army.
We see this from Sou’Ou:
Where Sou’Ou realizes that every move Seika has made thus far was for the purpose of deceiving Ousen’s commanders.
And this is how you know you aren’t dealing with run of the mill strategists, because Seika is actually using deception and deceptive tactics on the battlefield with enough efficacy to deceive the likes of Denrimi who is probably strategically Ousen’s best general. Deception is the tell tale sign of advanced strategists and tacticians, and we see Seika doing this effectively.
Now there was one flaw in Seika’s plan, which is of course that Denrimi can now attack Shibashou from the rear thanks to he and Sou’Ou outnumbering Jiaga. However,
Kansaro completely nullifies this opening by switching battlefields, eliminating the numerical advantage that would’ve allowed Denrimi to strike Shibashou from the rear.
Again we are seeing Ousen’s generals just completely and utterly outplayed here on a strategic level. Not just martially, but strategically as well.
This is when Denrimi realizes that Zhao is heading towards a checkmate:
Because the strategic moves of Seika in conjunction with him realizing the martial potential of Shibashou is now cue-ing him into how fucked Ousen is about to be.
Again I don’t see how this can’t be viewed as Seika utterly dominating Ousen’s generals tactically. Yes they benefit from Zhao’s intel advantage, but outplaying Ousen’s generals like this is not easy, and it shows that Seika’s tactical and strategic ability is very high.
The only question in my mind is how much exactly Riboku himself had to do with this plan. Again that moment between Gakushou and Kansaro makes me think that these events were largely due to Seika’s abilities and not pre-planning or oversight from Riboku.
The way Denrimi describes it:
Really makes it seem like Riboku had little to do with Seika’s actions aside from removing the Qin right wing. But obviously Denrimi wouldn’t know shit about Zhao’s planning.
Alright so next up we get Kanjou’s pincer:
Which would’ve absolutely annihilated 90% of the other armies we’ve seen in Kingdom. This is the first of two moments where we actually get to see Shibashou’s tactical knowledge in battle. We can see that Shibashou calls out to a minor commander to presumably counter Kanjou’s pincer attack, which works perfectly.
This is especially impressive when you consider that Shibashou’s army was not stationary, they were in the middle of charging Ousen’s main army and yet this pincer still had no effect on them. We even see that Kanjou’s own men are losing the resulting melee:
I often see people claiming that Shibashou himself has no tactical or strategic ability and that all of Seika’s strategy and tactics are attributable to Kansaro and Gakushou, but that just never made sense to me at all. This isn’t a Gaimou/Junsou dynamic, Shibashou himself seems to possess a strategic awareness of what is happening around him in terms of army movements, and knows how to counter tactics such as a moving pincer.
I get the impression personally from Shibashou’s reactions and demeanor that his tactical knowledge is really no different from Kansaro’s and Gakushou’s. There was never any indications that Kansaro and Gakushou were the true planners here or that Shibashou was just clueless. He very much seems fully aware and competent tactically.
Anyway, next we see a charging tactic that I don’t think is a common thing:
We see that Seika’s momentum is so big because the rear troops are actually pushing the front forward. This reminds me of the Akou army having such a powerful offense because it’s troops will trample over each other to continue their charge, and again imo shows tactical prowess.
We then get the second scene of Shibashou showing tactical awareness:
This comes after Sou’Ou and Denrimi strike the Shibashou main from the rear. This also shows that Shibashou is fully aware of the charging tactic being utilized by his own army and that this isn’t something his lieutenants have come up with without his own knowledge or whatever.
This also shows that Shibashou is capable of making correct and optimal tactical decisions on the battlefield itself, since even after Shibashou gives this order, Seika is still able to outpace Sou’Ou and Akou to win this battle. Again we see the notion that Shibashou has no tactical ability being contradicted by his correct decision making on the battlefield.
Fast forward a bit more and we see Shibashou joined by Gakushou and Kansaro:
Again hyping the tactical and strategic prowess of Seika. The longer this battle goes on, the less I think Riboku is actually the mastermind behind these moves. I mean I doubt Riboku was planning this far ahead into the minute details of Seika’s battle, that just seems unlikely to me. Imo if everything that happened during the opening salvo of this battle was by Riboku’s hand, then everything happening after the Shibashou main actually moved for Ousen was most certainly of Seika’s own doing.
After Ousen is forced to retreat, we see that Seika is not just mindlessly attacking from behind, but is repeatedly attempting to encircle Ousen to stop his retreat. Sou’Ou and Ousen have to be saved twice from this.
This encirclement was thwarted by Denrimi:
And this encirclement was thwarted by Akakin:
So what do we think of Seika tactically and strategically? My overall verdict is that Seika outplayed Ousen’s generals strategically, who themselves are very strategically capable.
Outplaying competent generals in terms of strategy is very much a Great General feat of strategy, no? Is it fair to say that Seika is somewhere in that low GG tier strategically? What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Bepo @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion
Today we’re going to take an in depth look at the tactics and strategy utilized by Seika during Hango.
I often see people saying that Seika is solely a martial army with the ability for great morale raising via Shibashou’s leadership, and while I don’t disagree with those things, I wanted to take a look at their tactics and strategy as well because Seika showed strong tactics right from the start.
In my opinion, Seika is truly a fully realized 3GH tier army. They aren’t just some decent soldiers under the command of a Houken, they show a high level at all three aspects of warfare: martial might, morale raising, and tactics. Seika at one point had Ousen’s subordinates completely dancing to their tune, utilizing deception and trickery to utterly run Ousen’s generals in circles. And all of Ousen’s generals, especially Denrimi, are strong when it comes to tactical and strategic knowledge. That said, Seika still completely outplayed them all in a strategic sense and I’m about to make that case.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying Shibashou/Kansaro/Gakushou are better tacticians or smarter than Akou or Denrimi. I am solely saying that Seika’s ability to strategically outplay these two shows that Seika is a tactically strong army.
So let’s do this.
The first big strategic move of Seika’s is the feint that catches both Denrimi and Sou Ou completely off guard.
The feint begins with the straightforward advance of Jiaga, Kansaro, and Shibashou’s armies.
Interestingly, it appears that Gakushou himself didn’t know that Kansaro was coming to join him, and we can tell this from the fact that Gakushou retroactively decides to make room for Kansaro’s attack.
This in and of itself could indicate a high degree of planning and tactical ability from Kansaro/Shibashou, whichever of the two of them was the mastermind of this plan (assuming it wasn’t Riboku). The fact that Gakushou didn’t know Kansaro was coming to his aid shows us one of two things:
1. Either the decision to keep Gakushou in the dark was made intentionally so that Gakushou wouldn’t accidentally give away the battle by the way he positioned his troops,
2. Or this plan of attack was made retroactively and Gakushou is just naturally reacting to the position and trajectory of Kansaro’s army.
Either way, I think this really hypes Seika’s tactics because it shows that they aren’t just blindly advancing into battle like we’ve seen other Great General armies do, there is a method to their plan of attack.
I think the idea that Gakushou was kept in the dark of the overall plan is reinforced by Kansaro’s reaction:
“In that case…” definitely makes it seem like this wasn’t pre-planned and that this is Gakushou naturally reacting to army positioning.
Which again would seem to go against the notion that this was all pre-planned by Riboku since Seika seems to be operating of their own accord on the battlefield.
Now skipping ahead a bit to after Denrimi reinforces Sou’Ou against Jiaga and we get this:
The Shibashou main army directly targets the reinforcing Denrimi army. And this is really where we actually start to see Seika tactically outplay Ousen’s generals.
We know in hindsight that Shibashou’s true target was not Denrimi, but was instead the Ousen main army. But the Ousen army is made to believe that Shibashou is targeting them:
We can see the shock from both Denrimi and Akou at the advancing Shibashou main army, because they were under the belief that the Shibashou main army was charging straight for Denrimi.
But of course:
The Shibashou army only hits Denrimi with a glancing blow while continuing their charge to their true target, the Ousen main army.
We see this from Sou’Ou:
Where Sou’Ou realizes that every move Seika has made thus far was for the purpose of deceiving Ousen’s commanders.
And this is how you know you aren’t dealing with run of the mill strategists, because Seika is actually using deception and deceptive tactics on the battlefield with enough efficacy to deceive the likes of Denrimi who is probably strategically Ousen’s best general. Deception is the tell tale sign of advanced strategists and tacticians, and we see Seika doing this effectively.
Now there was one flaw in Seika’s plan, which is of course that Denrimi can now attack Shibashou from the rear thanks to he and Sou’Ou outnumbering Jiaga. However,
Kansaro completely nullifies this opening by switching battlefields, eliminating the numerical advantage that would’ve allowed Denrimi to strike Shibashou from the rear.
Again we are seeing Ousen’s generals just completely and utterly outplayed here on a strategic level. Not just martially, but strategically as well.
This is when Denrimi realizes that Zhao is heading towards a checkmate:
Because the strategic moves of Seika in conjunction with him realizing the martial potential of Shibashou is now cue-ing him into how fucked Ousen is about to be.
Again I don’t see how this can’t be viewed as Seika utterly dominating Ousen’s generals tactically. Yes they benefit from Zhao’s intel advantage, but outplaying Ousen’s generals like this is not easy, and it shows that Seika’s tactical and strategic ability is very high.
The only question in my mind is how much exactly Riboku himself had to do with this plan. Again that moment between Gakushou and Kansaro makes me think that these events were largely due to Seika’s abilities and not pre-planning or oversight from Riboku.
The way Denrimi describes it:
Really makes it seem like Riboku had little to do with Seika’s actions aside from removing the Qin right wing. But obviously Denrimi wouldn’t know shit about Zhao’s planning.
Alright so next up we get Kanjou’s pincer:
Which would’ve absolutely annihilated 90% of the other armies we’ve seen in Kingdom. This is the first of two moments where we actually get to see Shibashou’s tactical knowledge in battle. We can see that Shibashou calls out to a minor commander to presumably counter Kanjou’s pincer attack, which works perfectly.
This is especially impressive when you consider that Shibashou’s army was not stationary, they were in the middle of charging Ousen’s main army and yet this pincer still had no effect on them. We even see that Kanjou’s own men are losing the resulting melee:
I often see people claiming that Shibashou himself has no tactical or strategic ability and that all of Seika’s strategy and tactics are attributable to Kansaro and Gakushou, but that just never made sense to me at all. This isn’t a Gaimou/Junsou dynamic, Shibashou himself seems to possess a strategic awareness of what is happening around him in terms of army movements, and knows how to counter tactics such as a moving pincer.
I get the impression personally from Shibashou’s reactions and demeanor that his tactical knowledge is really no different from Kansaro’s and Gakushou’s. There was never any indications that Kansaro and Gakushou were the true planners here or that Shibashou was just clueless. He very much seems fully aware and competent tactically.
Anyway, next we see a charging tactic that I don’t think is a common thing:
We see that Seika’s momentum is so big because the rear troops are actually pushing the front forward. This reminds me of the Akou army having such a powerful offense because it’s troops will trample over each other to continue their charge, and again imo shows tactical prowess.
We then get the second scene of Shibashou showing tactical awareness:
This comes after Sou’Ou and Denrimi strike the Shibashou main from the rear. This also shows that Shibashou is fully aware of the charging tactic being utilized by his own army and that this isn’t something his lieutenants have come up with without his own knowledge or whatever.
This also shows that Shibashou is capable of making correct and optimal tactical decisions on the battlefield itself, since even after Shibashou gives this order, Seika is still able to outpace Sou’Ou and Akou to win this battle. Again we see the notion that Shibashou has no tactical ability being contradicted by his correct decision making on the battlefield.
Fast forward a bit more and we see Shibashou joined by Gakushou and Kansaro:
Again hyping the tactical and strategic prowess of Seika. The longer this battle goes on, the less I think Riboku is actually the mastermind behind these moves. I mean I doubt Riboku was planning this far ahead into the minute details of Seika’s battle, that just seems unlikely to me. Imo if everything that happened during the opening salvo of this battle was by Riboku’s hand, then everything happening after the Shibashou main actually moved for Ousen was most certainly of Seika’s own doing.
After Ousen is forced to retreat, we see that Seika is not just mindlessly attacking from behind, but is repeatedly attempting to encircle Ousen to stop his retreat. Sou’Ou and Ousen have to be saved twice from this.
This encirclement was thwarted by Denrimi:
And this encirclement was thwarted by Akakin:
So what do we think of Seika tactically and strategically? My overall verdict is that Seika outplayed Ousen’s generals strategically, who themselves are very strategically capable.
Outplaying competent generals in terms of strategy is very much a Great General feat of strategy, no? Is it fair to say that Seika is somewhere in that low GG tier strategically? What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Bepo @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion
