Questions & Mysteries What difficulty does Dumas pushes Traumerei to?

[MonsterKaido]

--Dumas is shown to be one of the strongest characters to exist in TOG till now. Arguably strongest po bidau memeber after Gustang himself.

--Baam mentions while Family heads are transcendent , Dumas is very impressive in his own right.

--Imo dumas can push traumerei to mid diff at least.

Thoughts?

@Shadowlord123 @Greenbeard @NAMELESS @Welkin @Cinera @Worst @Cadis Etrama Di Urek @Minatoze Narutomaki @Ha Yuri Zahard @Flower @Tai long @Haoshoku @Marimo_420 @Medeia @LogicoftheVI etc

 

[Tai long]

depends on how serious traumei starts the fight. TOG fights are pretty systematic (they use a stronger move till they win).
all out neg diff
in story - mid diff

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

Imo dumas can push traumerei to mid diff at least.

Thoughts?

Why in the ever living fuck could Dumas push Traumerei to mid difficulty?


Where are you getting this fucked up scaling.



He gets obliterated just by Traum sneezing, seriously since when was Dumas equal to a family head or close?


Dumas, Yama , Kallavan, Jinsung and Evankhell combined by all indications are still absolute fodder to a 10% Shinsuless Urek in power who is still absolute fodder to Traum in his sleep.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I say neg diff. By all accounts, he shouldn't be more than fodder IMO.

Baam's comments unironically imply that Dumas is far weaker than the severely nerfed versions of the matured Irregulars. Dumas:

1. Can't be compared to the Data of Adult Zahard, which was stated to be "nothing" compared to the actual Zahard. Baam still isn't strong enough to properly gauge him, while he can gauge Dumas.

2. Can't be compared to the maximum amount of power Baam has seen/felt from Urek, which is 10% (he said he still can't gauge it, much like how he can't gauge the very small fragment of Zahard).

3. Can't be compared to post-power split Traumerei, who Leviathan implies to be nothing more than an empty shell of his former self with basically nothing left.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Why in the ever living fuck could Dumas push Traumerei to mid difficulty?


Where are you getting this fucked up scaling.



He gets obliterated just by Traum sneezing, seriously since when was Dumas equal to a family head or close?


Dumas, Yama , Kallavan, Jinsung and Evankhell combined by all indications are still absolute fodder to a 10% Shinsuless Urek in power who is still absolute fodder to Traum in his sleep.

 

[Welkin]

I think people here are severely underselling just how powerful Dumas is

Regular Dumas put the paws on Yama, Jinsung, and Baam all at the same time without breaking a sweat

Yama and Yasratcha (who are both significantly weaker than any version of Dumas) put up a decent fight against Traumerei’s shinheuh

We also saw Dumas oneshot one of Traumerei’s fairly strong shinheuh (Venom Dragon) with his Rosario Carrier

Pushing Traumerei to low diff is basically being able to take on his shinheuh and forcing him to use more power than normal which Dumas should be able to do

So I’d say it’s a low diff fight

 

[MonsterKaido]

I think people here are severely underselling just how powerful Dumas is

Regular Dumas put the paws on Yama, Jinsung, and Baam all at the same time without breaking a sweat

Yama and Yasratcha (who are both significantly weaker than any version of Dumas) put up a decent fight against Traumerei’s shinheuh

We also saw Dumas oneshot one of Traumerei’s fairly strong shinheuh (Venom Dragon) with his Rosario Carrier

Pushing Traumerei to low diff is basically being able to take on his shinheuh and forcing him to use more power than normal which Dumas should be able to do

So I’d say it’s a low diff fight

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

I think people here are severely underselling just how powerful Dumas is

Regular Dumas put the paws on Yama, Jinsung, and Baam all at the same time without breaking a sweat

Yama and Yasratcha (who are both significantly weaker than any version of Dumas) put up a decent fight against Traumerei’s shinheuh

We also saw Dumas oneshot one of Traumerei’s fairly strong shinheuh (Venom Dragon) with his Rosario Carrier

Pushing Traumerei to low diff is basically being able to take on his shinheuh and forcing him to use more power than normal which Dumas should be able to do

So I’d say it’s a low diff fight

Lemme give you a small perspective.

10% Shinsooless Urek vs current Dumas with everything he's got who do you think is superior?

Reminder, shinsooless Urek disturbed and punched straight through to the end of an entire floor.


Current Dumas is stated insignificant to a 10% Urek and adult Data Zahard, the data is but a fraction of his power and though Zahard might be king that Data should still be insignificant to a massively split Traumerei even by the strongest of wanks.


There's multiple dimensions of power, not mountains but freaking dimensions between Dumas and what it takes to push Traumerei to a low diff fight, using fodder, and yes they're all absolute fodder shinhuei as proof he's gonna come close is insane.


I like Dumaw, but he's just never gonna be that guy when compared to the FH's, even the bottom ones ever.

 

[Welkin]

Lemme give you a small perspective.

10% Shinsooless Urek vs current Dumas with everything he's got who do you think is superior?

Reminder, shinsooless Urek disturbed and punched straight through to the end of an entire floor.


Current Dumas is stated insignificant to a 10% Urek and adult Data Zahard, the data is but a fraction of his power and though Zahard might be king that Data should still be insignificant to a massively split Traumerei even by the strongest of wanks.


There's multiple dimensions of power, not mountains but freaking dimensions between Dumas and what it takes to push Traumerei to a low diff fight, using fodder, and yes they're all absolute fodder shinhuei as proof he's gonna come close is insane.


I like Dumaw, but he's just never gonna be that guy when compared to the FH's, even the bottom ones ever.

What is your definition of a low diff fight then?

If extreme diff is going all out and it’s still a close fight then a low diff is using very little of your arsenal and still coming out on top with relative ease

A neg diff is literally not trying at all and winning

Traumerei would have to “try” against Dumas

Against Yasratcha and Yama he summoned 2 shinheuh and slept

Against Dumas he’d have to summon an army of them and that still might not be enough

Dumas slaughtered Fandore Harpe and then killed the Venom Dragon (one of his higher tier shinheuh) with a single stroke of his spear

He did all of that in base without igniting the Rosario Carrier

True Form Dumas with the Rosario Carrier ignited could easily push Traumerei to low diff

He’d lose as soon as Disconnection comes out but that’s a deeper part of Traumerei’s kit reserved for opponents of a similar level

That’s why it’s a low diff

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

He’d lose as soon as Disconnection comes out but that’s a deeper part of Traumerei’s kit reserved for opponents of a similar level

The fact you believe Dumas could push Traum into using disconnection, a skill he only brought out after being deep into his fight with another family head who was pushing his shit in at full force is insane to me.

That would have to mean Dumas could manhandle Traum without disconnection which means he's family head tier.

The Shinhuei that you call high tier is absolute fodder, there's only four things that Traum put actual power into and those things can kill Dumas with a flick.


If Dumas is insignificant to adult Data Zahard and 10% Shinsooless Urek, then he's neg diff material for Traum.


Urek as strong as he is at 10% without shinsoo shouldn't be able to even scratch traum even if he let him punch him for hours on end, Gustang brought in something overpowered to cause Traum to bleed a little.

Dumas isn't pushing any family head to a low diff fight, he's neg-diff material for every last one.


A fractured of Traums shinsoo made into a bang eviscerates Dumas, that's how big the gap is.

 

[Welkin]

The fact you believe Dumas could push Traum into using disconnection, a skill he only brought out after being deep into his fight with another family head who was pushing his shit in at full force is insane to me.

That would have to mean Dumas could manhandle Traum without disconnection which means he's family head tier.

The Shinhuei that you call high tier is absolute fodder, there's only four things that Traum put actual power into and those things can kill Dumas with a flick.


If Dumas is insignificant to adult Data Zahard and 10% Shinsooless Urek, then he's neg diff material for Traum.


Urek as strong as he is at 10% without shinsoo shouldn't be able to even scratch traum even if he let him punch him for hours on end, Gustang brought in something overpowered to cause Traum to bleed a little.

Dumas isn't pushing any family head to a low diff fight, he's neg-diff material for every last one.


A fractured of Traums shinsoo made into a bang eviscerates Dumas, that's how big the gap is.

He wasn’t deep into his fight with Gustang they were both sandbagging up until that point

Gustang literally just kept saying “fight me yourself, fight me yourself, fight me yourself” until Traumerei pulled out Disconnection

There’s nothing Traumerei used pre Disconnection that Dumas (with his feats) can’t handle

Every Sea Dragon we’ve seen with the exception of Valhalla (the strongest one that’s a combination of various shinheuh with his shinwonryu) are beasts that Dumas should be able to handle

Yama and Yasratcha (who are tiers below Dumas even when put together) managed to put up a fight against Rapide. Were they killed with a flick?

If they can fight it and live to tell the tale (albeit with some plot armor) then Dumas should blow it out of the water

I really don’t know why you consider it such a reach anyway

Valhalla is a shinheuh that’s almost on par with Family Heads (allegedly)

What’s stopping Gustang from writing something into existence that’s close enough in strength to push a Family Head to low diff?

Dumas is essentially just a piece of Gustang’s own power

 

[Shadowlord123]

What is your definition of a low diff fight then?

This is an important point. We might be saying the same but simply put different difficulties. In my difficulty scale, there's no observation regarding the amount of effort a character is putting. I always assume the characters are taking the fight seriously from the start (which is not something that tends to happen in the actual work). Going from this point:

Neg Diff - Oneshot. This is what I think would happen here.

Low Diff - Basically stomp. The character can't keep up with the stronger character. It's not a one-shot, but the character gets the shit beaten out of him. The winner doesn't suffer damage.

Mid Diff - The opposing character starts being able to keep up to some extent, albeit for the most part there's a very clear upper hand. The character might have the capacity to put the winner into some tricky spot here and there. The victor will suffer some form of damage, but nothing serious.

High Diff - This starts to approach a fight between equals. The loser is going to be able to keep up very well with the winner. The winner will still hold a slight advantage, but overall, it's going to be a very competitive fight. The winner will emerge with serious injuries, but not exactly life-threatening.

Extreme Diff - Genuine fight between equals. The margin between the winner and the loser would pretty much be non-existent, and whoever emerges as the winner will have injuries that threaten his life.

In my case, I think a fraction of Traum (for example Valhalla or the empty Traumerei) is already more than enough to low-diff (if not arguably neg) Dumas.

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

There’s nothing Traumerei used pre Disconnection that Dumas (with his feats) can’t handle

Traum has a stronger body by tiers beyond Dumas, you seem to forget this and therefore could crush him with ease physically.

You don't need to be a physical monster on the level of Urek to accomplish crushing a bug as a family head.

Once again, Dumas is weaker than 10% Urek without Shinsoo, Urek can't scratch a family head in pure base as strong as he is without Shinsoo.

Dumas is getting obliterated by a bang from Traum.

There's only four monsters that Traum put power into, those are the actual strong creatures.

Using the fodder swarm as proof Dumas could push Traum to a low diff is why it's weird to me.