Character Discussion Who's had Better Development Over Time Zoro or Sanji?
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>Get exposed for not able to read baratie
>Get exposed for not understanding how Haki works after writing essays for years
>Get exposed for Dogshit ass powerscaling takes
>Get exposed for not being able to judge even the most obvious author favorites char
>All this here and in every online platform ever after accumulating those like the illiterate infinity gauntlet and people taking the piss at ayou
Bonus point for Zoros best writing moment here in this chapter being just another Sanji development setup
>Get exposed for not understanding how Haki works after writing essays for years
>Get exposed for Dogshit ass powerscaling takes
>Get exposed for not being able to judge even the most obvious author favorites char
>All this here and in every online platform ever after accumulating those like the illiterate infinity gauntlet and people taking the piss at ayou
Bonus point for Zoros best writing moment here in this chapter being just another Sanji development setup
Sanji and it's not close. The issue is simple: Zoro refuses to open up with the crew.
This is intentional, IMO: what will make Sanji truly respect Zoro, is when he realizes Zoro wants to be the World's Strongest Swordsmen, for Kuina's sake, and how Zoro despised to idea Kuina couldn't be the strongest because of her gender.
Oda has been saving this reveal for the two to connect more, and for when he explores Zoro's past and Wano's history.
Considering we still haven't seen Zoro visit Ryuma's Grave, it's clear to me that Oda wants to tie Zoro's family history/childhood with Wano's Ancient History somehow.
Zoro HAS gotten character development, but, his lack of development comes from the fact that the Straw Hats know about Sanji's past, now, but don't know about Zoro's.
Until the crew learns about Kuina, he's stuck in the gear he's in.
Zoro's character development will start when we explore his relationship with his parents, and it's revealed the Pirate that killed Roronoa Arashi was Kaido himself.
It's best to look at it this way, IMO:
Whole Cake + Elbaph = Sanji arcs. Wano Acts 1-3, and then 4-5 when we return = Zoro arcs. Whole Cake/Elbaph both have a Big Mom focus, while Wano is obviously Kaido focused.
I'm still waiting to see how Big Mom ends up in Elbaph. I think it will be after Act 4, after Chopper, Brook and Sanji help fix her mental.
BUT, I do think it's possible Pluton will activate upon sensing Imu's Haki: this is the real reason the Gorosei never approached Wano. They can destroy the Samurai, but Pluton is guarding the country. Now that Imu has descended, it's possible Pluton will activate, and cause another eruption.
Kaido also DOES owe Linlin a debt, still, and I assumed that would be paid by Kaido giving Linlin a limb to eat. However, I recently had the idea that Kaido could just... toss Linlin out of the Volcano.
If Pluton did activate by sensing Imu's Haki, it's entirely possible another eruption occurred, and both Linlin and Kaido are now free from the volcano.
Sanji and Zoro developing their CoC is important for them to fight Big Mom and Kaido in the future, since Luffy will be focused on Blackbeard/Imu in Wano Act 4.
Zoro's character will not grow until we start dealing with his full flashback; historically, the Straw Hats don't achieve true character growth until they overcome the grief of their flashback.
Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, and now Brook have all overcome this.
Jinbe, Zoro, and Usopp still need to overcome the trauma from their flashbacks, with two of them not talking about their childhood, and the third lying about everything.
I'm assuming Jinbe's past will have something to do with Sunbell and Barbell, since they are both important Fish-Men we have seen quite little of.
Usopp obviously needs to confront his father.
And Zoro needs to deal with who killed his father.
This is intentional, IMO: what will make Sanji truly respect Zoro, is when he realizes Zoro wants to be the World's Strongest Swordsmen, for Kuina's sake, and how Zoro despised to idea Kuina couldn't be the strongest because of her gender.
Oda has been saving this reveal for the two to connect more, and for when he explores Zoro's past and Wano's history.
Considering we still haven't seen Zoro visit Ryuma's Grave, it's clear to me that Oda wants to tie Zoro's family history/childhood with Wano's Ancient History somehow.
Zoro HAS gotten character development, but, his lack of development comes from the fact that the Straw Hats know about Sanji's past, now, but don't know about Zoro's.
Until the crew learns about Kuina, he's stuck in the gear he's in.
Zoro's character development will start when we explore his relationship with his parents, and it's revealed the Pirate that killed Roronoa Arashi was Kaido himself.
It's best to look at it this way, IMO:
Whole Cake + Elbaph = Sanji arcs. Wano Acts 1-3, and then 4-5 when we return = Zoro arcs. Whole Cake/Elbaph both have a Big Mom focus, while Wano is obviously Kaido focused.
I'm still waiting to see how Big Mom ends up in Elbaph. I think it will be after Act 4, after Chopper, Brook and Sanji help fix her mental.
BUT, I do think it's possible Pluton will activate upon sensing Imu's Haki: this is the real reason the Gorosei never approached Wano. They can destroy the Samurai, but Pluton is guarding the country. Now that Imu has descended, it's possible Pluton will activate, and cause another eruption.
Kaido also DOES owe Linlin a debt, still, and I assumed that would be paid by Kaido giving Linlin a limb to eat. However, I recently had the idea that Kaido could just... toss Linlin out of the Volcano.
If Pluton did activate by sensing Imu's Haki, it's entirely possible another eruption occurred, and both Linlin and Kaido are now free from the volcano.
Sanji and Zoro developing their CoC is important for them to fight Big Mom and Kaido in the future, since Luffy will be focused on Blackbeard/Imu in Wano Act 4.
Zoro's character will not grow until we start dealing with his full flashback; historically, the Straw Hats don't achieve true character growth until they overcome the grief of their flashback.
Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, and now Brook have all overcome this.
Jinbe, Zoro, and Usopp still need to overcome the trauma from their flashbacks, with two of them not talking about their childhood, and the third lying about everything.
I'm assuming Jinbe's past will have something to do with Sunbell and Barbell, since they are both important Fish-Men we have seen quite little of.
Usopp obviously needs to confront his father.
And Zoro needs to deal with who killed his father.
I don't think it's about who Oda cares about more. That's like saying oda gave sanji more deeply embedded issues =, therefore he cares about him more.
A character that lacks conviction, and has a bunch of other issues, which leads to things like mental breakdowns, trauma or whatever, and you watching them slowly climb out of that hole
Then you compare it to someone who already had supreme certainty in where they were headed, you're saying the former had better progression so oda cares more about that character.
You can even say Koby has had better progression than Zoro using this logic. So he cares about koby more i guess "HE WAS ON THE PANEL OF MAIN PLAYERS AFTER ALL, NOT ZORO"
Sanji is the one who's telling people to abandon their dreams, then sees something in luffy's dream and decides to follow him because he sees in luffy a mirror of qualities that he's like to see reflected by himself. Which has culminated to this very chapter 1187, with becoming a king.
Then he goes and leaves the crew because he lacks conviction luffy is strong enough to get through the current state of events (what did I say about that mirror? in reality it's reflecting his own belief in his powerlessness) , with big mom on WCI, then he needs to be told by luffy and reminded of his self worth and why he joined the crew in the first place.
Then when he's over that hurdle, he has the hurdle of being carried by germa tech and his family bloodline who he hates, in wano, then he has to now solve his wavering conviction of being good enough to help luffy be the pirate king yet again, which is stopping him from unlocking conquerors.
Whereas Zoro already had his certainty from the promise he made to Kuina. This is why I say Zoro is the type of character who was going to achieve his dream anyway, meeting Luffy just sped up the process.
Zoro was in it for himself, but then he humbled himself because he found a purpose greater than just his own goal. Yet even then he did that because he had supreme confidence in Luffy, and wanted to live up to Luffy's trust, the only way to get strong enough to do that was to accept training from the very man he wants to defeat.
Zoro as his character archetype in a shounen is pretty much as good as it gets. You don't need deep embedded insecurities with Zoro, like you have with Sanji. If they both had that they'd be the same shounen character.
The real people who need development are the fans who religiously chose one side and now must die on that side. This is why I had to stop being a zoro-tard especially after that whole ZKK debacle.
Maturing is realising you can enjoy the narrative instead of being an upset loser who must get his idealised version of what was supposed to be the case for the series "Sanji shouldn't get coc and be capped at admiral level eos, or this series is shit"
A character that lacks conviction, and has a bunch of other issues, which leads to things like mental breakdowns, trauma or whatever, and you watching them slowly climb out of that hole
Then you compare it to someone who already had supreme certainty in where they were headed, you're saying the former had better progression so oda cares more about that character.
You can even say Koby has had better progression than Zoro using this logic. So he cares about koby more i guess "HE WAS ON THE PANEL OF MAIN PLAYERS AFTER ALL, NOT ZORO"
Sanji is the one who's telling people to abandon their dreams, then sees something in luffy's dream and decides to follow him because he sees in luffy a mirror of qualities that he's like to see reflected by himself. Which has culminated to this very chapter 1187, with becoming a king.
Then he goes and leaves the crew because he lacks conviction luffy is strong enough to get through the current state of events (what did I say about that mirror? in reality it's reflecting his own belief in his powerlessness) , with big mom on WCI, then he needs to be told by luffy and reminded of his self worth and why he joined the crew in the first place.
Then when he's over that hurdle, he has the hurdle of being carried by germa tech and his family bloodline who he hates, in wano, then he has to now solve his wavering conviction of being good enough to help luffy be the pirate king yet again, which is stopping him from unlocking conquerors.
Whereas Zoro already had his certainty from the promise he made to Kuina. This is why I say Zoro is the type of character who was going to achieve his dream anyway, meeting Luffy just sped up the process.
Zoro was in it for himself, but then he humbled himself because he found a purpose greater than just his own goal. Yet even then he did that because he had supreme confidence in Luffy, and wanted to live up to Luffy's trust, the only way to get strong enough to do that was to accept training from the very man he wants to defeat.
Zoro as his character archetype in a shounen is pretty much as good as it gets. You don't need deep embedded insecurities with Zoro, like you have with Sanji. If they both had that they'd be the same shounen character.
The real people who need development are the fans who religiously chose one side and now must die on that side. This is why I had to stop being a zoro-tard especially after that whole ZKK debacle.
Maturing is realising you can enjoy the narrative instead of being an upset loser who must get his idealised version of what was supposed to be the case for the series "Sanji shouldn't get coc and be capped at admiral level eos, or this series is shit"
Nope, wrong; that's not my logic at all
Zoro's "arc" in wano was phoned in and didnt make 1 lick of sense.
He knows about cursed words since loguetown and doesn't fear them, so that whole flashback makes no sense during that fight, nor him holding haki back or his full power, again totally made out of thin air
He is using coc before so him not sensing it despite it clearly being a different power makes no sense cause he was shown to sense haki
He had no self doubts, infact that was supposed to the "point" of the character post-ts and why he is so monotone. Somehow, in that fight that changed, however
That whole enma shit A) didnt make sense and was just there for oda to enforce some semblance of plot in that fight B) after it nothing became of it
In fact after elbaf him not getting it still, after King and kaido telling him so resulted in a gag as a payoff
This is not even a new or hot take in the widespread fandom so i dont know how your misunderstanding is if you think that was epicly written ok, but I don't see it that way. You even explained yourself that you agree how zoro was written, or supposed to, so this just sounds like you are defending some bad writing you agree is bad
Zoro's "arc" in wano was phoned in and didnt make 1 lick of sense.
He knows about cursed words since loguetown and doesn't fear them, so that whole flashback makes no sense during that fight, nor him holding haki back or his full power, again totally made out of thin air
He is using coc before so him not sensing it despite it clearly being a different power makes no sense cause he was shown to sense haki
He had no self doubts, infact that was supposed to the "point" of the character post-ts and why he is so monotone. Somehow, in that fight that changed, however
That whole enma shit A) didnt make sense and was just there for oda to enforce some semblance of plot in that fight B) after it nothing became of it
In fact after elbaf him not getting it still, after King and kaido telling him so resulted in a gag as a payoff
This is not even a new or hot take in the widespread fandom so i dont know how your misunderstanding is if you think that was epicly written ok, but I don't see it that way. You even explained yourself that you agree how zoro was written, or supposed to, so this just sounds like you are defending some bad writing you agree is bad
What are you yapping about?
How does you rambling about your opinion on zoro in wano, address anything I said, are you a drug addict or what?
You think you giving your opinion, bolsters your already stated opinion that oda doesn't care about zoro, or cares about him less than sanji?
Are you coked out of your mind? your opinion doesn't show oda cares less because you said so, if you believe that you're an idiot.
How does you rambling about your opinion on zoro in wano, address anything I said, are you a drug addict or what?
You think you giving your opinion, bolsters your already stated opinion that oda doesn't care about zoro, or cares about him less than sanji?
Are you coked out of your mind? your opinion doesn't show oda cares less because you said so, if you believe that you're an idiot.
*Makes some absolute non sequitor post about his opinion to defend shit character writing and total stagnation culminating in a gag by pretending zoro is already a completed character and oda doesnt write like that*
*Demonstrate objectively thats not true and oda wrote a bunch of garbage in wano too give him a doggi ass character arc that most of the community agrees came from nowhere, doesnt fit, and didnt go nowhere*
*"Yap, opinion, drug, cooked, idiot, because you said so"*
Nice argument
My points stand and there is nothing you can do change: the objective facts i listed that happened in the manga with YOUR opinion
piece not changing 1 single thing about it
cope mald seeth cant change reality, debunk the points i made that happened in the manga or keep pretending something is wrong that everyone sees but zori fans
*Demonstrate objectively thats not true and oda wrote a bunch of garbage in wano too give him a doggi ass character arc that most of the community agrees came from nowhere, doesnt fit, and didnt go nowhere*
*"Yap, opinion, drug, cooked, idiot, because you said so"*
Nice argument
My points stand and there is nothing you can do change: the objective facts i listed that happened in the manga with YOUR opinion
piece not changing 1 single thing about it
cope mald seeth cant change reality, debunk the points i made that happened in the manga or keep pretending something is wrong that everyone sees but zori fans
