Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1009 Spoilers Discussion

[Red Admiral]

wait a min ....

Big Mom is out
and now she have to fight Teach

that would be a good twist for the story as well?​

 

[RayanOO]

Zoro has several feats of reacting to Top tiers:

• He Blitzed Mama to intercept Heavenly Fire
• He casually deflected Kaido's Wind Scythes
• He could cut Boro Breath
• He was able to grab Luffy and dodge Motherly Fire
• He was able to dodge Kaido's wind scythes while carrying Luffy

I don't think any one of those feats is top tier material. Nice feats but nothing top tier wise. Kata, King or Marco can do that.

While Luffy was unable to use haki for 10 minutes, Zoro managed to keep him safe as well.

Zoro didn't fought alone to protect Luffy. He was likely the one who wanted to protect Luffy the most but the other 3 also fought Kaido/Bm and likely helped Zoro.

Santoryu Zoro now has two solid top tier feats:

• Hiryuu Kaen terrified two Yonkou due to its insane attack power.
  • Santoryu Zoro has solid top tier offensive prowess

I agree when Zoro will be able to master those types of hits he will have insane offensive power.

Does anyone still doubt that Santoryu Zoro is a low top tier?

Currently I don't know yet and Zoro didn't went all out either. But it will come.

 

[Rayleigh-Sama]

I am totally surprised by the power levels of Luffy and Zoro in rooftop battle,,,,Its far more than I expected

 

[rerere]

Overheat was blocked by Law casually, Luffy easily tank it.
Katakuri is in every aspect above Doffy, he pummeled stronger Boundman Luffy in WCi, Oda make it clear that Katakuri was a another lvl.
I doubt Doffy can push a Yc1lvl character above mid diff, the difference is to large.

Doffy is not YC1. There is a massive difference between the Katakuri and Doffy fights from a writing and thematical perspective.

Luffy spent the Katakuri fight figuring out how to SURPASS KATAKURI because he recognized that Katakuri was STRONGER than him

That element NEVER came into play with the Doffy fight, never did Luffy wonder how to win or admit inferiority.

But the fact is that when the fight between Luffy and Doffy actually started, Doffy was really nerfed. To put Doffy down, was required a round from Law, to nerf him, a round from Luffy, who still couldn't beat Doffy and in the end another round.
Katakuri fought a stronger Luffy, and arguably left him win... I think Kata is stronger overall but mid-diff? No, I disagree. In my opinion, Doflamingo can give Kata a really good fight, being overwhelmed in the end.

 

[Rayleigh-Sama]

I don't think any one of those feats is top tier material. Nice feats but nothing top tier wise. Kata, King or Marco can do that.



Zoro didn't fought alone to protect Luffy. He was likely the one who wanted to protect Luffy the most but the other 3 also fought Kaido/Bm and likely helped Zoro.



I agree when Zoro will be able to master those types of hits he will have insane offensive power.



Currently I don't know yet and Zoro didn't went all out either. But it will come.

I agree with every point you made

 

[DiscoZoro20]

1 year ago I would believe that Zoro vs King could have been somewhat the replica of Zoro vs Kaku with Asura Zoro proving quite quite stronger. (Albeit I didn't believe it would happen, the fight I mean)

Turns out that now I'm talking about Kaido possibly be the Kaku of the situation here, at least potentially. But I think Oda isn't done with Kaido most likely, that would be too easy hence bad writing.

 

[Yoru]

• Hakai: Conquering the Sea
• Hakkoku: Conquering a Nation
• Ikkoku Sovereignty: Nation's Might

Based on their names, the hierarchy of raw power is clear:
Hakai >> Hakkoku >> Ikkoku Sovereignty

When you factor in that Hakai was performed by Hybrid Kaido and Prometheus fused Mama together as a combo attack? I cannot explain just how insane an attack this was.

Even though Zoro blocked this for just a moment, he blocked it for long enough that the other Supernova could escape. This is highlighted by Kidd thanking Zoro for stopping the attack:


No matter how I look at it, this is a solid top tier feat.

Santoryu Zoro now has two solid top tier feats:

• Hiryuu Kaen terrified two Yonkou due to its insane attack power.
  • Santoryu Zoro has solid top tier offensive prowess
• Zoro (momentarily) blocked an extraordinarily powerful — perhaps the most powerful — attack of two Yonkou in their strongest forms:
  • Santoryu Zoro has solid top tier defensive prowess

These are the two best feats on the Rooftop (including the Yonkou's own attacks).


Zoro has several feats of reacting to Top tiers:

• He Blitzed Mama to intercept Heavenly Fire
• He casually deflected Kaido's Wind Scythes
• He could cut Boro Breath
• He was able to grab Luffy and dodge Motherly Fire
• He was able to dodge Kaido's wind scythes while carrying Luffy

While Luffy was unable to use haki for 10 minutes, Zoro managed to keep him safe as well.

Zoro also has at least one other feat at the low top tier level:

• His Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki completely overwhelmed Kaido's own Tatsumaki and badly cut him up

The main areas he seems to fall short of the solid top tiers.

• Stamina (established)
  • Top tiers can fight for days, but after maybe an hour of facing two top tiers (albeit in their strongest forms) with backup, Zoro was heavily panting
  • Zoro's staying power is not enough to let him win a fight against the true top tiers of the verse
• COO (speculative)
  • This is not as big a factor against Kaido and Meme, but perhaps Zoro might be challenged against Borsalino if his COO falls short.
  • Zoro has out reacted Luffy (a future sight user) on several occasions though, so this might well be irrelevant.

I would have mentioned endurance, but Zoro has that covered as well:

• He withstood Indra
• He withstood God of Lightning Tenjin
• He withstood off panel attacks from Hybrid Kaido and Prometheus fused Mama
• He withstood Hakai after it overpowered his block.

Given Zoro's feats so far, I think Zoro could have pulled off Rayleigh's feat of holding back a serious top tier for long enough to let the Strawhats escape. Maybe not Borsalino in particular (we don't know how his COO would measure up against him), but Kaido or Mama? It seems like it.

Does anyone still doubt that Santoryu Zoro is a low top tier?

Spoiler: Tags

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo

I like zoro so i like u

 

[Extravlad]

Is Doflamingo Weaker than Cracker?

I used to think so because Cracker performed better against G4 but given Law's portrayal and contribution against Yonko as well as Jack getting smashed by characters Kaido washed, I would say that this is doubtful now.

 

[Embers Kaios]

I'm just being realistic, this has nothing to do with bashing or hating.

I even wished Oda would better his character many times.

His character is great enough in terms of development and combat

But huge Zoro wankers will pick out anything to downplay him with. How can you downplay someone who doesn’t fight women and instead tanked attacks from a very powerful one only to go on to face a far greater opponent than even she was?

 

[mly90]

I hope BM isn’t out of the battle tbh. I still want that 4 way CoC clash.

Damn i forgot this was one of Ndule many catchphrases everything is falling apart

 

[BleakAsh]

• Hakai: Conquering the Sea
• Hakkoku: Conquering a Nation
• Ikkoku Sovereignty: Nation's Might

Based on their names, the hierarchy of raw power is clear:
Hakai >> Hakkoku >> Ikkoku Sovereignty

When you factor in that Hakai was performed by Hybrid Kaido and Prometheus fused Mama together as a combo attack? I cannot comprehend this.

Even though Zoro blocked this for just a moment, he blocked it for long enough that the other Supernova could escape. This is highlighted by Kidd thanking Zoro for stopping the attack:


No matter how I look at it, this is a solid top tier feat.

Santoryu Zoro now has two solid top tier feats:

• Hiryuu Kaen terrified two Yonkou due to its insane attack power.
  • Santoryu Zoro has solid top tier offensive prowess
• Zoro (momentarily) blocked an extraordinarily powerful — perhaps the most powerful — attack of two Yonkou in their strongest forms:
  • Santoryu Zoro has solid top tier defensive prowess

These are the two best feats on the Rooftop (including the Yonkou's own attacks).


Zoro has several feats of reacting to Top tiers:

• He Blitzed Mama to intercept Heavenly Fire
• He casually deflected Kaido's Wind Scythes
• He could cut Boro Breath
• He was able to grab Luffy and dodge Motherly Fire
• He was able to dodge Kaido's wind scythes while carrying Luffy

While Luffy was unable to use haki for 10 minutes, Zoro managed to keep him safe as well.

Zoro also has at least one other feat at the low top tier level:

• His Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki completely overwhelmed Kaido's own Tatsumaki and badly cut him up

The main areas he seems to fall short of the solid top tiers.

• Stamina (established)
  • Top tiers can fight for days, but after maybe an hour of facing two top tiers (albeit in their strongest forms) with backup, Zoro was heavily panting
  • Zoro's staying power is not enough to let him win a fight against the true top tiers of the verse
• COO (speculative)
  • This is not as big a factor against Kaido and Meme, but perhaps Zoro might be challenged against Borsalino if his COO falls short.
  • Zoro has out reacted Luffy (a future sight user) on several occasions though, so this might well be irrelevant.

I would have mentioned endurance, but Zoro has that covered as well:

• He withstood Indra
• He withstood God of Lightning Tenjin
• He withstood off panel attacks from Hybrid Kaido and Prometheus fused Mama
• He withstood Hakai after it overpowered his block.

Given Zoro's feats so far, I think Zoro could have pulled off Rayleigh's feat of holding back a serious top tier for long enough to let the Strawhats escape. Maybe not Borsalino in particular (we don't know how his COO would measure up against him), but Kaido or Mama? It seems like it.

Does anyone still doubt that Santoryu Zoro is a low top tier?

Spoiler: Tags

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo

zoro in Beast pirates standards is Neck in Neck with King

Pretty sure techniquees like Overheat spammed during Awakening would give difficulties to Kata
@BleakAsh this is what I think

Yea doffy is doffy at the end of the day...
if u want me to analogize i'd say he's like kaido's DF form that tanks gear 4 but it actually hurts him i reckon if it was just him vs luffy and law wasn't involved... Doffy would have won the fight.

 

[Finalbeta]

Judging from the way Big Mom is being treated you never know but as I said that's extensively unlikely that Oda is somewhat done with Kaido in my opinion. That would prove too easy.

 

[draganax]

Dude no. Just stop. "Strongest Slash" Refers to "Mihawk's Slash" Because he is known as "the strongest". We have Seen Mihawk Himself use a far stronger attack afterwards when he cut the ice Wall.

dude, yes, mihawk couldn't even break wado ichimonji, let alone jozu,
he didn't leave one scratch on shanks, it got to be the weakest yonko in his weakest form who did it.
mihawk is overrated trash.

 

[Extravlad]

But the fact is that when the fight between Luffy and Doffy actually started, Doffy was really nerfed. To put Doffy down, was required a round from Law, to nerf him, a round from Luffy, who still couldn't beat Doffy and in the end another round.
Katakuri fought a stronger Luffy, and arguably left him win... I think Kata is stronger overall but mid-diff? No, I disagree. In my opinion, Doflamingo can give Kata a really good fight, being overwhelmed in the end.

Luffy was also nerfed. He was injured and had used haki prior to the fight. Oda made a point to have both Luffy and Doffy acknowledge each other's wounds before they started fighting.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Big Mom, though insanely strong is so fucking incompetent man.

Whitebeard wasn't PK because he wanted Ace to be PK. The Akainu comment from Oda referred to the fact that he's got the right mindset to get shit done. The narrative sets up the idea that PK isn't necessarily about strength and that these two emperors aren't PK because they don't have their shit together. People are surprised now to actually see it?

 

[Yoru]

wait a min ....

Big Mom is out
and now she have to fight Teach

that would be a good twist for the story as well?​

If its happen it will be epic 1 by 1 battle
N i think BB will win against her

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

If Kidd isn’t bleeding after having Big Mom wail on him....
:zorothink:

Chopper makes Queen bleed.
Big Mom doesn’t make Kidd bleed.

Really makes you think....

 

[style]

Damn i forgot this was one of Ndule many catchphrases everything is falling apart

There will be never a 4 way CoC clash.
It's more likely that Zoro awaken CoC since it was already teased. That will be an insane moment

 

[Cinera]

I don't think any one of those feats is top tier material. Nice feats but nothing top tier wise. Kata, King or Marco can do that.

No I was establishing that Zoro can react to top tiers. Many high tiers can react to top tiers as well. There isn't a notable speed gap between them.

Zoro didn't fought alone to protect Luffy. He was likely the one who wanted to protect Luffy the most but the other 3 also fought Kaido/Bm and likely helped Zoro.

Luffy has been saved 8 times on panel.

1. Once was from Law
2. Once was from Zoro with the aid of Law
3. Six times were from Zoro alone

I agree when Zoro will be able to master those types of hits he will have insane offensive power.

Well, Kaido dodged the slash. It's also not something he can spam anyhow since haki is finite.

Currently I don't know yet and Zoro didn't went all out either. But it will come.

I think his current feats and portrayal merit the low top tier designation.

 

[Rayleigh-Sama]

If Kidd isn’t bleeding after having Big Mom wail on him....
:zorothink:

Chopper makes Queen bleed.
Big Mom doesn’t make Kidd bleed.

Really makes you think....

bigmom didnt make queen bleed either, Choppah>>Bigmeme