Powers & Abilities How do the straw hats haki compare
- Thread starter Albino 👑
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Question the thread is asking is not how they compare atm, but how they compared fresh out the time skip.
- Sanji being conscious doesn’t prevent him from acting subconsciously (momentarily).
- Sanji’s focus was on the alter, as that was where the attack was supposed to be coming from. The only person that was supposed to be shooting at him was Pudding. Moreover, he was momentarily caught off guard by Pudding collapsing and was reaching to help her when Katakuri shot at him yet he was still able to evade Katakuri’s jelly bean attack. It’s also important to note that a few milliseconds before Kata fired his Jellybean, the priest was already gearing up to shoot at Sanji. Sanji had no business dodging that jelly bean, but he did, which surprised even Katakuri.
The Sanji/Katakuri situation is very similar to the Luffy/Flampe situation & Oda made sure to emphasize that. (On my phone atm, so can’t put up the two images but will do so when I get home.)
- Sanji being conscious doesn’t prevent him from acting subconsciously (momentarily).
- Sanji’s focus was on the alter, as that was where the attack was supposed to be coming from. The only person that was supposed to be shooting at him was Pudding. Moreover, he was momentarily caught off guard by Pudding collapsing and was reaching to help her when Katakuri shot at him yet he was still able to evade Katakuri’s jelly bean attack. It’s also important to note that a few milliseconds before Kata fired his Jellybean, the priest was already gearing up to shoot at Sanji. Sanji had no business dodging that jelly bean, but he did, which surprised even Katakuri.
The Sanji/Katakuri situation is very similar to the Luffy/Flampe situation & Oda made sure to emphasize that. (On my phone atm, so can’t put up the two images but will do so when I get home.)
I think even tho Usopp unlocked an advance version of Baki, his basic ability to control it isn't as Good as Zoro. So won't disagree with your comparison.
I also think Zoro fans provided hints n indications of Zoro being capable of using Barrier Haki. So he could have had better CoA haki than Luffy until Wano. Or maybe it could be same deal as like Usopp above, with Luffy Hardening Haki being still than Zoro bt Zoro having Barrier Haki.
Same for Sanji, i think his basic CoO haki was still comparable to Luffy's until he finally awakened FS. Given Sanji also has a panel of Subconscious dodge that Rayleigh mentioned in Flashback and that Luffy detecting n hitting Beast pirate before they fired with their guns at Wano start also look similar to What Sanji did in DR when he was with Viola, detecting n hitting fodders before the shots were fired.
So i think, beside using Advance version of Haki, Luffy Haki is comparable t9 Zoro n Sanji in their speciality types.
Luffy CoA~Zoro CoA>Jinbei~Sanji CoA
Luffy CoO~Sanji CoO>Zoro>Usopp~Jinbei(since no CoO feat comes to my mind)
Need not say abour CoC
Ofcrs i am comparing Basics of these Haki.
If we count in also advance.
CoA... LUFFY>Zoro>Jinbei~Sanji.
CoO... LUFFY>Sanji>Usopp>Zoro
I also think Zoro fans provided hints n indications of Zoro being capable of using Barrier Haki. So he could have had better CoA haki than Luffy until Wano. Or maybe it could be same deal as like Usopp above, with Luffy Hardening Haki being still than Zoro bt Zoro having Barrier Haki.
Same for Sanji, i think his basic CoO haki was still comparable to Luffy's until he finally awakened FS. Given Sanji also has a panel of Subconscious dodge that Rayleigh mentioned in Flashback and that Luffy detecting n hitting Beast pirate before they fired with their guns at Wano start also look similar to What Sanji did in DR when he was with Viola, detecting n hitting fodders before the shots were fired.
So i think, beside using Advance version of Haki, Luffy Haki is comparable t9 Zoro n Sanji in their speciality types.
Luffy CoA~Zoro CoA>Jinbei~Sanji CoA
Luffy CoO~Sanji CoO>Zoro>Usopp~Jinbei(since no CoO feat comes to my mind)
Need not say abour CoC
Ofcrs i am comparing Basics of these Haki.
If we count in also advance.
CoA... LUFFY>Zoro>Jinbei~Sanji.
CoO... LUFFY>Sanji>Usopp>Zoro
Lol @PuckTheGreat made a good point this is right after TS.
So.
CoA... ZORO>=Luffy
CoO... SANJI>=Luffy.
Since Luffy couldn't dodge Flampe Needle first time and showed the subconscious dodge the second time and he's been improving CoO in that fight and Sanji was capable of this already, i woukd say Sanji CoO haki better. Also the CoO feats same panels similar CoO feat were shown.by Sanji first, in DR n then in Tea Party while only Luffy shows em in Katakuri fight n in Wano.
Similarly Luffy learns Ryo n Barrier Haki now, which (Zoro fans post i read on OJ) hints he could use it FI n PH, while Luffy does so in Wano after arguable improving it to good margin.
Tho i would point out that he only tried learning it in WANO, so who knows he might not have required to improve basic CoA haki to learn Barrier, which makes my above point irrelevant. Also someone with weaker Basic Haki can show Advance one eg Coby, Usoppp.
In that case it is impossible to compare Luffy n Zoro CoA haki and we can give Luffy the benefit for fighting Stronger opponent and Zoro for his CoA not failing yet.
Nah its not. I am confident on this one.
So.
CoA... ZORO>=Luffy
CoO... SANJI>=Luffy.
Since Luffy couldn't dodge Flampe Needle first time and showed the subconscious dodge the second time and he's been improving CoO in that fight and Sanji was capable of this already, i woukd say Sanji CoO haki better. Also the CoO feats same panels similar CoO feat were shown.by Sanji first, in DR n then in Tea Party while only Luffy shows em in Katakuri fight n in Wano.
Similarly Luffy learns Ryo n Barrier Haki now, which (Zoro fans post i read on OJ) hints he could use it FI n PH, while Luffy does so in Wano after arguable improving it to good margin.
Tho i would point out that he only tried learning it in WANO, so who knows he might not have required to improve basic CoA haki to learn Barrier, which makes my above point irrelevant. Also someone with weaker Basic Haki can show Advance one eg Coby, Usoppp.
In that case it is impossible to compare Luffy n Zoro CoA haki and we can give Luffy the benefit for fighting Stronger opponent and Zoro for his CoA not failing yet.
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Nah its not. I am confident on this one.
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Even then how did Sanji show better COO?
He was fully alert when going there. He knew he would be shot..in fact he stated so himself. There was nothing subconscious about that.
Oda made sure to make it clear when Luffy dodged an attack subconscious by showing that he was almost unconcious when he dodged.
Sanji on the other hand was fully alert going into the situation.
He was fully alert when going there. He knew he would be shot..in fact he stated so himself. There was nothing subconscious about that.
Oda made sure to make it clear when Luffy dodged an attack subconscious by showing that he was almost unconcious when he dodged.
Sanji on the other hand was fully alert going into the situation.
Following @PuckTheGreat format
CoA Highest level (Rayleigh 10)
Zoro (8 - Very Strong) > Luffy (7 - Really Strong) > Sanji (5 - average)
CoO Mastery Highest Level (Katakuri 10)
Luffy (8 - Very Strong) > Sanji (7 - Really strong) > Zoro (6 - above average)
Jinbei hasn't shown enough feats to gauge him correctly
Usopp just learned CoO even with what he's learned he has to train with it to be efficient
Reasoning for ranking :
CoA : Hyogoro explained that flowing of haki into swords is something Samurai are capable of doing within Wano, Zoro literally explained the samething word for word during his match with Mr1, so preTS Zoro already displayed haki, Luffy at the moment is currently learning how to flow haki also he accidentally performed the technique which is a step further than that, Sanji still hasn't displayed hardening..
CoO : Katakuri being at the highest level (we've seen so far) displaying future sight, during the bout with Luffy, Luffy also began to show similar CoO feats to Katakuri , also while in prison Luffy was telling Hyogoro how to move and where to move displaying he knows exactly where to go his CoO isn't as advanced as Katakuri's but he is displaying similar traits, Sanji has shown that he is capable of sensing peoples feelings and at times when someone is in distress (i.e. Nami being scared while in Cesar laboratory, Violet true feelings,), when it comes to Zoro he's displayed basic CoO feats capable of detecting enemies and reacting to that so far CoO feats are average
CoA Highest level (Rayleigh 10)
Zoro (8 - Very Strong) > Luffy (7 - Really Strong) > Sanji (5 - average)
CoO Mastery Highest Level (Katakuri 10)
Luffy (8 - Very Strong) > Sanji (7 - Really strong) > Zoro (6 - above average)
Jinbei hasn't shown enough feats to gauge him correctly
Usopp just learned CoO even with what he's learned he has to train with it to be efficient
Reasoning for ranking :
CoA : Hyogoro explained that flowing of haki into swords is something Samurai are capable of doing within Wano, Zoro literally explained the samething word for word during his match with Mr1, so preTS Zoro already displayed haki, Luffy at the moment is currently learning how to flow haki also he accidentally performed the technique which is a step further than that, Sanji still hasn't displayed hardening..
CoO : Katakuri being at the highest level (we've seen so far) displaying future sight, during the bout with Luffy, Luffy also began to show similar CoO feats to Katakuri , also while in prison Luffy was telling Hyogoro how to move and where to move displaying he knows exactly where to go his CoO isn't as advanced as Katakuri's but he is displaying similar traits, Sanji has shown that he is capable of sensing peoples feelings and at times when someone is in distress (i.e. Nami being scared while in Cesar laboratory, Violet true feelings,), when it comes to Zoro he's displayed basic CoO feats capable of detecting enemies and reacting to that so far CoO feats are average
Luffy wasn’t unconscious when he dodged Flampe’s bullet but even if he were it doesn’t make a difference. The word Rayleigh used in Luffy’s flashback was 「無意識 」which means both unconscious/subconscious. The literal meaning for the word itself is ‘without awareness/unaware’. In addition both the Sanji/Katakuri & Luffy/Flampe panels are almost identical and are drawn in a very unique way with a characteristic after image.
Lastly, let’s assume Sanji knew that someone was going to be shooting at him from somewhere on the wedding grounds, it was the same with Luffy and Flampe no? Luffy also knew someone was going to at him from somewhere before he demonstrated the feat in question.
Lastly, let’s assume Sanji knew that someone was going to be shooting at him from somewhere on the wedding grounds, it was the same with Luffy and Flampe no? Luffy also knew someone was going to at him from somewhere before he demonstrated the feat in question.
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Luffy wasn’t unconscious when he dodged Flampe’s bullet but even if he were it doesn’t make a difference. The word Rayleigh used in Luffy’s flashback was 「無意識 」which means both unconscious/subconscious. The literal meaning for the word itself is ‘without awareness/unaware’. In addition both the Sanji/Katakuri & Luffy/Flampe panels are almost identical and are drawn in a very unique way with a characteristic after image.
Lastly, let’s assume Sanji knew that someone was going to be shooting at him from somewhere on the wedding grounds, it was the same with Luffy and Flampe no? Luffy also knew someone was going to at him from somewhere before he demonstrated the feat in question.
Lastly, let’s assume Sanji knew that someone was going to be shooting at him from somewhere on the wedding grounds, it was the same with Luffy and Flampe no? Luffy also knew someone was going to at him from somewhere before he demonstrated the feat in question.
The literal meaning directly counters your point because Sanji went there fully aware.
The panel is to show movement. It doesn't mean Everytime someone uses future sight, they will move the same way.
Difference is that Luffy was already in a battle with Katakuri and was almost unconcious and didn't even move voluntarily just instinctively and on the next plane you see he passes out.
Sanji wasn't in any battle and neither was he damaged to the point of almost passing out . He was fully aware that someone was going to try to kill him, moved voluntarily to dodge and even looking back at the one who attacked him. Nothing in that is subconscious.
Let’s agree to disagree mate. I doubt I’m gonna be able to convince you otherwise, and vice-versa. All I will say however, is that if (or rather when) Sanji reveals a very high level of CoO on Wano without overcoming hell & high water like Luffy did to achieve FS, just know that the hints were already there.
You do know zoro has not shown anything in the slightest that proves he can withstand dont same attacks with his haki right? Cause i don't think you realize that with that marimo sword so far up your ass
And boi we already discussed this lol and you legit had no point so again ima quote the same thing i askec the other day that you probably didn't see. Tho idk how with how many times you quote me...
And boi we already discussed this lol and you legit had no point so again ima quote the same thing i askec the other day that you probably didn't see. Tho idk how with how many times you quote me...