Character Discussion Why Post-time skip Luffy is trash (Wano)

Is Luffy's character and plot trash


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stairs-kun

Spoiler Provider
#41
Luffy in Arlong arc stated how he depends on his crew to do what he can't.
Luffy in Enies lobby says he can't focus on anything else because Lucci is a(his) problem if allowed to roam free.
In Marineford Mihawk makes it clear that Luffy's power isn't strength itself, but getting others to do it for him.


All of these points have been discarded by Post-time skip Luffy. Thus making him fresh trash.



Also, everyone is seemingly ignoring the power aspect, and how ragnarok powered up Luffy instead of damaging him. You guys also ignored how Luffy is now having flashback of Zoro's experiences. Just because Luffy is the protagonist of the story doesn't mean he is to forcibly bleed into every other plot/character of the story. By the people who dispute me, I can tell your story-telling abilities are questionable.
 
#42
All of these points have been challenged by Post-time skip Luffy.
isn't luffy going 1 v 1 with katakuri something he did for his crew and they believed in him..

Cracker vs Luffy was a collab work

Doffy vs luffy was a collab work


Kaido vs luffy is about to become a collab work..


luffy has remained consistent..in depending on othervs trust on him wasn't WCI enough evidence that without 1 of his crew he wont be able to become the king?


what a shallow argument this is..
 
#43
Luffy in Arlong arc stated how he depends on his crew to do what he can't.
Luffy in Enies lobby says he can't focus on anything else because Lucci is a(his) problem if allowed to roam free.
In Marineford Mihawk makes it clear that Luffy's power isn't strength itself, but getting others to do it for him.


All of these points have been discarded by Post-time skip Luffy. Thus making him fresh trash.



Also, everyone is seemingly ignoring the power aspect, and how ragnarok powered up Luffy instead of damaging him. You guys also ignored how Luffy is now having flashback of Zoro's experiences. Just because Luffy is the protagonist of the story doesn't mean he is to forcibly bleed into every other plot/character of the story. By the people who dispute me, I can tell your story-telling abilities are questionable.
Didnt he literally tell Sanji he can’t become king of the pirates without him.

And Luffy getting stronger from learning his enemies techniques is pretty basic for him. He did it with katakuri he did it with CP9.
 
#45
Hello fellow worst generation. A special greeting to the followers of the Grandmaster.:datas:

I know what you're thinking, "Stairs talking about Luffy? She's about to spit facts.":steef:

And you're right. Stairs is about to spit straight facts.



Pre-time skip, Luffy was a charm. A great character even. He knew when he was out of his league. He knew when he was incapable. But mostly, the plot did not cater him such as a mother's teat to a baby.
:goyea:


Now I can discuss the entire of Luffy's character in the post-time skip, but I want to focus on Wano specifically.



Luffy and the plot that caters to him is absolute trash.:chopoff:




Everything must now be "SOMEHOW" connected to Luffy. It's fucking stupid. Pre-time skip, Luffy had is individualization, and rarely did it forcibly bleed into another character story. Even the "prophecy parallels" are trash.:goatasure:

For example, the Ace and Kaido thing. Luffy did not need this, but it was placed here to compete with Zoro and Ryuma connection.:mihugh:

And the whole power scaling of Luffy. Absolute Trash. Kaido's Ragnarok has powered up Luffy more than his actual lessons. Not to mention how Luffy has to one up everything now, whereas pre-timeskip he knew when others were best suited to the task. The whole "Luffy show" is crap. What happened to the power Mihawk talked about? The trait we admired Luffy for. That trait is practically useless because he and the power of plot can do whatever they can (Except defeat Zoro, that'll never change.):zosleepy::zosleepy::zosleepy:


Also, Luffy has so much business with Big Mom, but he just ignores her. He was talking such a big game before Wano, and now that she is here for him, he is basically ignoring her. All so Zoro can't get Kaido to himself. Luffy and the plot are absolute trash. Luffy was someone who could depend on others to do what's best, now Oda has him trying to do everything himself. Essentially destroying his character and the plot.:whitepress:



Oda is so trash with Luffy's writing now, remember when he gave Zoro's flashback of Yasuie to Luffy. Yasuie's flashback and connection was something primarily set for Zoro, but in chapter 1000, Luffy is feeling the spirit of Yasuie in his red coc

:milaugh::milaugh::milaugh:




I am done. Luffy is a trash character.:endthis:



He no longer holds the essence of what I originally liked about him.


Why did One Piece have to become Luffy Piece:pepemy:
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Luffy already has enough willpower/CoA/guts to tank Boro Breat since the start so, tanking Roger-Tier black lightning CoA+CoC is okay for him.

Luffy has been always the strongest one of the crew so, if that is trash according to you since you want him to always depend on others without mainly protecting them "so that you can admire him", that will never happen. He always protects the crew in decisive moments, more than the crew protect him. If you said Luffy is trash because of that, then really you should also say Zoro is trash since he tried to help Luffy or tank Hakai even for 1 sec etc.
 
#46
Also, everyone is seemingly ignoring the power aspect, and how ragnarok powered up Luffy instead of damaging him. You guys also ignored how Luffy is now having flashback of Zoro's experiences. Just because Luffy is the protagonist of the story doesn't mean he is to forcibly bleed into every other plot/character of the story. By the people who dispute me, I can tell your story-telling abilities are questionable.
and just like everyone ignored the fact that zoro is snorting instead of being unconscious consequently tanking a thunder Bagua after breaking his bones...


having flash back of zoro's experiences..... say wa?


Look sis forget about my storytelling abilities or others... you have shown that you're incapable of presenting the correct narrative and are whining over your biases... first get that straight and then we'll move on
 
#47
Luffy in Arlong arc stated how he depends on his crew to do what he can't.
Luffy in Enies lobby says he can't focus on anything else because Lucci is a(his) problem if allowed to roam free.
In Marineford Mihawk makes it clear that Luffy's power isn't strength itself, but getting others to do it for him.


All of these points have been discarded by Post-time skip Luffy. Thus making him fresh trash.



Also, everyone is seemingly ignoring the power aspect, and how ragnarok powered up Luffy instead of damaging him. You guys also ignored how Luffy is now having flashback of Zoro's experiences. Just because Luffy is the protagonist of the story doesn't mean he is to forcibly bleed into every other plot/character of the story. By the people who dispute me, I can tell your story-telling abilities are questionable.
And Luffy does what the others including Zoro can't, like he stated to Arlong, which is to defeat Kaidou now. It works both ways really.
 
#48
Just more zoro fans being morons. They spout dumb bullshit after another for their character. They're also the first to cry headcanon when they get challenged against them...
They are the Karen's of the One Piece Community.
Coming from Yamatard who blatantly claimed that Yamao is stronger than Luffy :kobeha:
Yamato 2nd strongest.
 

stairs-kun

Spoiler Provider
#50
and just like everyone ignored the fact that zoro is snorting instead of being unconscious consequently tanking a thunder Bagua after breaking his bones...


having flash back of zoro's experiences..... say wa?


Look sis forget about my storytelling abilities or others... you have shown that you're incapable of presenting the correct narrative and are whining over your biases... first get that straight and then we'll move on
Zoro is built different, it was established early on the serious, Zoro can take anything. Go cry!
 

stairs-kun

Spoiler Provider
#52
And Luffy does what the others including Zoro can't, like he stated to Arlong, which is to defeat Kaidou now. It works both ways really.
Yes, but it was also stated Zoro can interchange with Luffy because he too can do what Luffy does (minus power of friendship). Luffy can't defeat Kaido with punches, Kaido is to be killed. No worries though, ZKK is inevitable, I'm not worried about that. The only special thing about Luffy is his ability to gather people and getting them to do his bidding. And that, THAT is what is being challenged as all of post-ts.
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The only trash thing here is your trash "opinion".
Good one.:cantseeme::cantseeme::cantseeme:
 
S

Shepherd

#53
For example, the Ace and Kaido thing. Luffy did not need this, but it was placed here to compete with Zoro and Ryuma connection.
Ace being connected to Wano was established wayyyy back in Marineford, so let's not act like this is anything new. :seriously:


Pre-time skip, Luffy was a charm. A great character even. He knew when he was out of his league. He knew when he was incapable. But mostly, the plot did not cater him such as a mother's teat to a baby.
Did Luffy in his strongest form, using his strongest attacks, not get neg-diffed by Kaido in the beginning of this arc? Luffy being out of his league was one of the first things Oda portrayed to us right as the arc began. Now, he is fighting Kaido evenly, similarly to how Lucci neg'd Luffy early into Enies Lobby, only for Luffy to then fight him evenly. Same logic could be applied to Crocodile.



And the whole power scaling of Luffy. Absolute Trash. Kaido's Ragnarok has powered up Luffy more than his actual lessons. Not to mention how Luffy has to one up everything now, whereas pre-timeskip he knew when others were best suited to the task.
Once again, Luffy getting massive growth within a short period of time is nothing new, in the aforementioned Enies Lobby Luffy gets neg'd by the main villain of the arc in the beginning, to beating him that same day. The rate at which Luffy progresses in strength has always been ridiculously high, and can be seen all throughout the Pre-Timeskip as well. We aren't seeing anything new here :kayneshrug:



Also, Luffy has so much business with Big Mom, but he just ignores her. He was talking such a big game before Wano, and now that she is here for him, he is basically ignoring her.
Luffy is aware that he is not strong enough to fight both Yonko at once, and at this moment, he has far more frustration and anger towards Kaido then Big Mom, so it only makes sense that Luffy would target Kaido first and foremost. Luffy's desire to defeat Kaido on behalf of Kinemon & the Scabbards, O-Tama, and the citizens of Wano simply comes first and more immediately then any personal history he has yet to settle with Big Mom. It is likely that Luffy will have a personal, true 1 v 1 fight with Big Mom after he is finished with Kaido, perhaps at Elbaf as many people theorize.




Luffy was someone who could depend on others to do what's best, now Oda has him trying to do everything himself.
The only reason Luffy is able to 1 v 1 Kaido as he is now is due to his crew, Marco and the other Supernovas keeping the 3 Calamities, the Tobi-Roppo and all of the Beast Pirates dealt with downstairs. Luffy wouldn't even able to 1v1 Kaido as he is right now if not for Law, Kid, Killer and Zolo's support. Luffy would be fighting Big Mom and Kaido 1v1 right now if not for Kid and Law getting her out of the equation.

All in all, it is quite clear that your little rant here is just your jealousy showing of Luffy's success and Zolo's lack thereof, and how Zolo has never, and will never, reach such a level. He is Luffy's subordinate, he takes the orders from Luffy not the other way around, he has never (and will never) outshine Luffy because it's not within Zolo's nature as Luffy's obedient little dog to overshadow his captain.
 
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stairs-kun

Spoiler Provider
#54
Ace being connected to Wano was established wayyyy back in Marineford, so let's not act like this is anything new. :seriously:




Did Luffy in his strongest form, using his strongest attacks, not get neg-diffed by Kaido in the beginning of this arc? Luffy being out of his league was one of the first things Oda portrayed to us right as the arc began. Now, he is fighting Kaido evenly, similarly to how Lucci neg'd Luffy early into Enies Lobby, only for Luffy to then fight him evenly. Same logic could be applied to Crocodile.





Once again, Luffy getting massive growth within a short period of time is nothing new, in the aforementioned Enies Lobby Luffy gets neg'd by the main villain of the arc in the beginning, to beating him that same day. The rate at which Luffy progresses in strength has always been ridiculously high, and can be seen all throughout the Pre-Timeskip as well. We aren't seeing anything new here :kayneshrug:





Luffy is aware that he is not strong enough to fight both Yonko at once, and at this moment, he has far more frustration and anger towards Kaido then Big Mom, so it only makes sense that Luffy would target Kaido first and foremost. Luffy's desire to defeat Kaido on behalf of Kinemon & the Scabbards, O-Tama, and the citizens of Wano simply comes first and more immediately then any personal history he has yet to settle with Big Mom. It is likely that Luffy will have a personal, true 1 v 1 fight with Big Mom after he is finished with Kaido, perhaps at Elbaf as many people theorize.






The only reason Luffy is able to 1 v 1 Kaido as he is now is due to his crew, Marco and the other Supernovas keeping the 3 Calamities, the Tobi-Roppo and all of the Beast Pirates dealt with downstairs. Luffy wouldn't even able to 1v1 Kaido as he is right now if not for Law, Kid, Killer and Zolo's support. Luffy would be fighting Big Mom and Kaido 1v1 right now if not for Kid and Law getting her out of the equation.

All in all, it is quite clear that your little rant here is just your jealousy showing of Luffy's success and Zolo's lack thereof, and how Zolo has never, and will never, reach such a level. He is Luffy's subordinate, he takes the orders from Luffy not the other way around, he has never (and will never) outshine Luffy because it's not within Zolo's nature as Luffy's obedient little dog to overshadow his captain.
1. Ace having been to Wano isn't what I'm talking about. I am talking about the whole Ace wanting to go after Kaidou's head over a plot line with terrible quality.


2. Different. Luffy was still out of his league after power-up. Then Luffy got hit by Ragnarok head-on and the result was him being to clash with Kaido evenly in base. Even though Oda made it clear early in the fight that Luffy should be significantly damaged from Kaido's head-on club attacks.

3. Luffy's growth, in this fight is stupid. Also, Luffy and Zoro did not get neg differ, they were unsure of Robin so they got pushed around because they were unsure of their reason to fight. Nami made that clear. You are reaching, even when the hardest rubber nut huggers said that Luffy's growth in this fight was "shitty"


4. Luffy also acknowledged that Big Mom presence in the fight is harmful to the alliance. Big Mom is Luffy's responsibility, had it not been for his recklessness, the alliance would have a better chance. But even though puffy knows this, he ignores is as if it is not a major problem. Which makes the writing even shittier.


5. Zoro bullied two Yonko. Zoro was not support, he was the driving force of separating both Emperor's and keeping the alliance, in its entirety. alive. Don't downplay him. He did all of this nerfed. Luffy was dead weight, until ragnarok healed him. Which was trash writing. Why would I be jealous of Luffy, when nerfed Zoro basically soloed two Emperors, grievously injuring one in the process, and almost killing the other if it were not for Law's interference.


You just can't accept the fact that the way Oda is handling Luffy is complete trash.
 
#59
Luffy already has enough willpower/CoA/guts to tank Boro Breat since the start so, tanking Roger-Tier black lightning CoA+CoC is okay for him.

Luffy has been always the strongest one of the crew so, if that is trash according to you since you want him to always depend on others without mainly protecting them "so that you can admire him", that will never happen. He always protects the crew in decisive moments, more than the crew protect him. If you said Luffy is trash because of that, then really you should also say Zoro is trash since he tried to help Luffy or tank Hakai even for 1 sec etc.
Zolo fans are in the first place to troll Luffy because he was dependent on his crew mates or others during most of his post TS fights. Now they are talking crap out of their ass.

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I remember that speech he gave in Udon to all of those prisoners lmao charmless and anticlimatic as all hell.
That is one of the best things Luffy did in the whole wano but saying it is bad and comment coming from Zolo fans obviously not surprising. Most of them can't simply unable to appreciate good moments of other characters. This thread is prime example of their mentality.

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Oda stroke off to Luffy is disturbing. Oda literally sacrifices other characters in order for Luffy to look better. This is why Rebecca from Dressrosa was so hated. It was because Oda put her in situations only to have Luffy look good at the sacrifice of her character.
Don't talk out of your **s. Turning blind eye when Oda jerked off Zoro in the entire arc of wano and woke up when it was Luffy turn. How hilarious. Didn't Hiyori was same just so Zoro to look good. See the starc difference between Komurasaki and Hiyori. Such 'good character' was killed for Zolo machismo by your logic. But you won't talk because you were busy jerking off Zolo.
 
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S

Shepherd

#60
1. Ace having been to Wano isn't what I'm talking about. I am talking about the whole Ace wanting to go after Kaidou's head over a plot line with terrible quality.


2. Different. Luffy was still out of his league after power-up. Then Luffy got hit by Ragnarok head-on and the result was him being to clash with Kaido evenly in base. Even though Oda made it clear early in the fight that Luffy should be significantly damaged from Kaido's head-on club attacks.

3. Luffy's growth, in this fight is stupid. Also, Luffy and Zoro did not get neg differ, they were unsure of Robin so they got pushed around because they were unsure of their reason to fight. Nami made that clear. You are reaching, even when the hardest rubber nut huggers said that Luffy's growth in this fight was "shitty"


4. Luffy also acknowledged that Big Mom presence in the fight is harmful to the alliance. Big Mom is Luffy's responsibility, had it not been for his recklessness, the alliance would have a better chance. But even though puffy knows this, he ignores is as if it is not a major problem. Which makes the writing even shittier.


5. Zoro bullied two Yonko. Zoro was not support, he was the driving force of separating both Emperor's and keeping the alliance, in its entirety. alive. Don't downplay him. He did all of this nerfed. Luffy was dead weight, until ragnarok healed him. Which was trash writing. Why would I be jealous of Luffy, when nerfed Zoro basically soloed two Emperors, grievously injuring one in the process, and almost killing the other if it were not for Law's interference.


You just can't accept the fact that the way Oda is handling Luffy is complete trash.
1. The fact is, Luffy has far more reasoning to defeat Kaido then Zolo does. Say what you want about Ace being shoehorned in to give Luffy another reason to face Kaido, but the fact is he has more then enough reason to. Zolo's connections with Ryuma, or any sort of parallels Zolo may have with Oden, don't hold a candle to the reasons why Luffy instead should defeat Kaido.

Just take a look at their motives. Zolo's motive for defeating someone stronger then him is, as per usual, little more then to grow his own personal strength and pride of self. Zolo says to Queen, "THEY SAY KAIDO'S THE TOUGHEST GUY IN THE WORLD, SO I'M HERE TO DEFEAT HIM!"...Zolo just wants another shiny in the trophy-room, another battle won, another inch closer to his dream of attaining some worthless strength-based title.

But what are Luffy's motives? Luffy cares less about his own satisfaction and his fufilling his own bloodlust, and more about actually solving an issue. Luffy wants to liberate an entire country and deliver redemption on behalf of not just Kinemon, not just O-Tama, not just the Red Scabbards, but all of Wano and those who have suffered under Kaido's tyrannical rule.

It's the same reason Oda had Luffy be the one to defeat Doflamingo rather then Law himself. Sure, Law had more history with Doflamingo and personal motivation to take him down, but his reasoning and anguish towards Doflamingo was through his own conceited and vengeful lens for the torment Doflamingo had inflicted upon him and Corazon. But the reality is, Law & Corazon were not the only ones who suffered under Doflamingo, so to did millions of people across Dressrosa for the entirety of his rule, millions of which Law did not care about. Luffy on the other hand wasn't there to burn bridges, he was there to open gates and liberate Dressrosa, just like here in Wano.


2. Rayleigh himself described haki as a "flower that blooms only in the extreme conditions of real battle.". Luffy gaining a haki-boost makes perfect sense in a situation as dire as this one, a boost that allows him to fight more evenly, we saw this in Luffy vs Katakuri where he get's an observation haki-bloom, it's the same situation.

3. "unsure of their reason to fight" lol ok :giogio: they got shigan'd and thrown across town, it was a neg-diff


4. "Had it not been for his recklessness" The fact is Luffy realizes he cannot fight both Yonko at once and, at this moment, he has far more reason to face Kaido right now then Big Mom. The only feasible option for him is to ignore her until someone else disposes of her, as we saw happen when Kid, Law, Zoro and Killer removed her from the battle.


5. Zolo didn't bully the yonko anymore then Raizo did deflecting & harming Kaido with his own attack, and if we want to talk about seperating the Yonko, I believe it was Kid & Law who disposed of Meme herself. Zolo merely took care of Prometheus which isn't even threatening, in fact all of Big Mom's most powerful attacks have come from Napoleon. You want to talk about who was the driving force in Roofpiece, look at Law who had to teleport everyone out of harm's way for Zolo's Hakai block to be of any usage. Kaido himself showed far more irritation towards Law, saying "YOUR ABILITIES REALLY THROW ME OFF!", where Zolo couldn't even make Kaido fall to his knees, something Luffy is currently doing in BASE FORM!


Poor broken-bones Zolo, as of 1012 even he doesn't believe he will kill Kaido, entrusting such a task to his captain and his captain alone.
 
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