General & Others PK =/= Strongest in 1v1

[Shanks]

In the end, Roger and Whitebeard are the peak of one piece,

I believe it should be Roger=Xebec=/>WB.

Roger's greatest enemy and the one who could command so many notorious ones at the same time. Definitely it's that time when Roger was in his prime. Also we know that Roger was sick during the fight against WB in recent chapter and yet it ends in draw (though it ends in friendly way but both were looking same, unscathed).

 

[Bil02]

Well you said it yourself Roger didn't coll himself the Pirate king but People did. Roger didn't have any authority over all pirates, being colld a king whiteout having any authority over others is the same as colling samone the WSS despite him not being able to defeat anyone in a sword fight which has no sense. Boggy became part of Shichibukai system because WG thinks he's strong but if they knew he isn't strong he wouldn't become a Shichibukai in fist place. Roger never defeated all the Yonkos or Admirals he only finded the lost island and people started to coll him in deferent ways like "the conqueror of the seas" but the one that stack with him was the Pairet king, people started to coll him in that way because they thought he was the strongest but if they new that he wasn't I don't think they would coll him a King anymore and yes Roger was the greatest Pairet that ever lived in one piece but he wasn't the true King it was just one of his names that stack with him.

Then why did big mom say with the help 9f the giants she will be pk? And why is every yonkou bar shanks wanting to go to raftel and saying they will be pk after that? I mean if they achieve the road to laugh tale,everybody in the verse will be considering them pk as it is a concept created for roger(he even implied it after his clash with wb when talking to both wb and oden)
Being pk has to do with "the treasure" not being strongest in the verse as you can never be sure there is not someone out there stronger than you so there is no way to be sure of that.
At the end of the day,"true pk" as you call it being strongest in the verse is the same as wsm and wss title as no one can clearly certify there isn't someone stronger hidden.

 

[stealthblack]

even if pk is not strongest, he is still equal to the strongest and you got like 2 or 3 guys equal like prime garp, prime wb, prime roger, maybe even prime shiki and sengoku.

 

[TheoryKing]

I'm glad you made this thread, because I've been wanting to address this thing since the spoilers, little throw back to my huge discussion with Hannibal.


When it comes to Pirate King, there are two components that make one the Pirate King:

1. Reaching Raftel & Conquering the grandline
2. Being the strongest pirate on the seas, as freedom as a pirate lays in strength

This is something that Monkey D. Luffy will showcase as the 2nd Pirate King , and something that Gol D. Roger already showcased as the first and only Pirate King.


Reaching Raftel & Conquering the grandline:

- Mentioned by Luffy when he saw the red line before Saboady
- Mentioned by Rayleigh that Roger became known as the PK after they completed the grandline
- Mentioned many other times as well


Being the strongest pirate on the seas:

Whitebeard, Big Mom, more than likely Shiki, Kaido, and countless other souls possessed Conqueror's Haki. However Gol D. Roger considered to be the one who stands above them. This is not possible if Roger didn't display things that made the world of OP think "Ok damn this dude is above Whitebeard". So standing above rest of the pirates with CoC is something that is needed to be considered the PK by fellow pirates.

Spoiler

Shiki viewed Roger as a wall for himself & others, he did not view Whitebeard as a wall. This statement holding even greater weight now as he had long connection with Whitebeard, thus had info on his ambitions and what he was aiming for.


Sengoku, at the time an admiral of the marines mentioning the title of Pirate King as a title of power:

Spoiler

Prior to that Shiki mentions how the marines could've never captured Roger, because he knew how strong he was:

Spoiler

Now we can take a look at Luffy, to him he won't be the PK if he can't beat the Yonko & Admirals.





All in all the title of Pirate King is a symbol/representation of one's superiority on the seas as the top pirate fighter. Being superior to Whitebeard being no exception. Whether in reality he was superior to Whitebeard or not is a whole different discussion that will revolve around the interpretation of 2 panels in the manga. However, the world of One Piece viewed Gol D. Roger > Whitebeard, veteran pirates like Don Chinjao viewed Gol D. Roger > Whitebeard. And of course this wouldn't be the case if there was nothing backing it up.

So the Pirate King is viewed upon as the strongest pirate on the seas. And I emphasis "strongest PIRATE", because in parallel to the rise of Gol D. Roger, we also had the rise of Monkey D. Garp, the superiority between these two is unclear.

-------

The titles that should be in question whether they have a connection to being 1v1 strongest are WSM & WSC. Neither of these titles having any connection to being the strongest fighter.

 

[HA001]

I'm glad you made this thread, because I've been wanting to address this thing since the spoilers, little throw back to my huge discussion with Hannibal.


When it comes to Pirate King, there are two components that make one the Pirate King:

1. Reaching Raftel & Conquering the grandline
2. Being the strongest pirate on the seas, as freedom as a pirate lays in strength

This is something that Monkey D. Luffy will showcase as the 2nd Pirate King , and something that Gol D. Roger already showcased as the first and only Pirate King.


Reaching Raftel & Conquering the grandline:

- Mentioned by Luffy when he saw the red line before Saboady
- Mentioned by Rayleigh that Roger became known as the PK after they completed the grandline
- Mentioned many other times as well


Being the strongest pirate on the seas:

Whitebeard, Big Mom, more than likely Shiki, Kaido, and countless other souls possessed Conqueror's Haki. However Gol D. Roger considered to be the one who stands above them. This is not possible if Roger didn't display things that made the world of OP think "Ok damn this dude is above Whitebeard". So standing above rest of the pirates with CoC is something that is needed to be considered the PK by fellow pirates.

Spoiler

Shiki viewed Roger as a wall for himself & others, he did not view Whitebeard as a wall. This statement holding even greater weight now as he had long connection with Whitebeard, thus had info on his ambitions and what he was aiming for.


Sengoku, at the time an admiral of the marines mentioning the title of Pirate King as a title of power:

Spoiler

Prior to that Shiki mentions how the marines could've never captured Roger, because he knew how strong he was:

Spoiler

Now we can take a look at Luffy, to him he won't be the PK if he can't beat the Yonko & Admirals.





All in all the title of Pirate King is a symbol/representation of one's superiority on the seas as the top pirate fighter. Being superior to Whitebeard being no exception. Whether in reality he was superior to Whitebeard or not is a whole different discussion that will revolve around the interpretation of 2 panels in the manga. However, the world of One Piece viewed Gol D. Roger > Whitebeard, veteran pirates like Don Chinjao viewed Gol D. Roger > Whitebeard. And of course this wouldn't be the case if there was nothing backing it up.

So the Pirate King is viewed upon as the strongest pirate on the seas. And I emphasis "strongest PIRATE", because in parallel to the rise of Gol D. Roger, we also had the rise of Monkey D. Garp, the superiority between these two is unclear.

-------

The titles that should be in question whether they have a connection to being 1v1 strongest are WSM & WSC. Neither of these titles having any connection to being the strongest fighter.

Drew with wb
Drew with shikki
Didnt fight meme
Never bested garp
Needed help against rox.
He may be many things but roger was not the outright strongest of his era.

Post automatically merged: Dec 29, 2019

It's simple really

- The yonko are the ones having the road poneglyphs leading to Laugh Tale, or at least we know for a fact Big Mom and Kaido have one each
- Because of this, it's important to either somehow manage to infiltrate them and steal the poneglyph copies or outright overcome them and take them
- Xebec was the one who originally started collecting the poneglyphs, so it makes sense that some of the remnants of the Rocks ended up having some of these stones

In Roger's case, Xebec was his greatest obstacle into getting them and thus needed strength to overcome him. Afterwards, Whitebeard reached his peak and ended up matching Prime Roger himself, but wasn't interested in the One Piece, but it doesn't dispute the fact that to become Pirate King in the first place, Roger needed strength to overcome his former rival Xebec who was already collecting the stones

In Luffy's case, he was already against simply stealing the poneglyphs and leave

Spoiler

And that's what led to this emoticon Simply because Luffy wants to prove he is worthy of the Pirate King title


That was 38 years ago. Roger wasn't in his prime

Lmfao so what did he do on wci ? Stole a rp copy and ran.

 

[HA001]

Spoiler

Thats all talk. Facts are twice he said he was done running. Then ran away.

 

[TheoryKing]

Drew with wb
Drew with shikki
Didnt fight meme
Never bested garp
Needed help against rox.
He may be many things but roger was not the outright strongest of his era.

Shiki: Viewed Roger as the top dog superior to himself & Whitebeard
Sengoku: Viewed Roger > Shiki
Don Chinjao: Viewed Roger > every other pirate

"Drew with WB" - he drew in a non-all out fight that only lasted 3 days. Kuzan - Sakazuki drew for 10 days, with Sakazuki eventually crippling him at the end and showing him mercy.
"Drew with Shiki" - he never drew, the fight between 1 ship vs a whole armada of dozens upon dozens of ship was canceled due to the storm and the incident with Shiki. Nothing about Roger drawing with Shiki or anything is mentioned.
"didn't fight meme" - this is headcanon. There is nothing in the manga stating he did or he didn't. Him stealing the poneglyph doesn't equate to him not fighting her, as Luffy went against Big Mom despite brook stealing a copy of her ponegylph.
"Never bested Garp" - Garp isn't a pirate, no clue why he's mentioned here
"Needed help against Rox" - He allied with the guy who has nothing to do with the PK title being the strongest pirate. Him & Garp gave Xebec/WB/BM/Kaido/Shiki/Silver Axe/Captain John/Chinese pirate a big ole collective L.

 

[MarineHQ]

Luffy > Roger

Roger in his prime refused to confront a Big mom that was weaker then the one Luffy was ready to clash with, and that when he wasn't even close to his prime.

Luffy will deserve his PK title

 

[HA001]

Shiki: Viewed Roger as the top dog superior to himself & Whitebeard
Sengoku: Viewed Roger > Shiki
Don Chinjao: Viewed Roger > every other pirate

"Drew with WB" - he drew in a non-all out fight that only lasted 3 days. Kuzan - Sakazuki drew for 10 days, with Sakazuki eventually crippling him at the end and showing him mercy.
"Drew with Shiki" - he never drew, the fight between 1 ship vs a whole armada of dozens upon dozens of ship was canceled due to the storm and the incident with Shiki. Nothing about Roger drawing with Shiki or anything is mentioned.
"didn't fight meme" - this is headcanon. There is nothing in the manga stating he did or he didn't. Him stealing the poneglyph doesn't equate to him not fighting her, as Luffy went against Big Mom despite brook stealing a copy of her ponegylph.
"Never bested Garp" - Garp isn't a pirate, no clue why he's mentioned here
"Needed help against Rox" - He allied with the guy who has nothing to do with the PK title being the strongest pirate. Him & Garp gave Xebec/WB/BM/Kaido/Shiki/Silver Axe/Captain John/Chinese pirate a big ole collective L.

Yawn.
Manga says he drew with shikki.
Manga say he never beat wb
Manga says him and garp almost killed each other numerous times
Manga says he beat rox with garp
Manga says he tricked not fought meme.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

He was the strongest. Just because whitebeard didn't care to get in his way to laugh tale doesn't mean others didn't try.
We know he fought other pirates and marines and still nobody could stop him.

So he was the strongest even at the end and the same will apply to luffy by eos.

 

[TheoryKing]

Yawn.
Manga says he drew with shikki.
Manga say he never beat wb
Manga says him and garp almost killed each other numerous times
Manga says he beat rox with garp
Manga says he tricked not fought meme.

You're reading two piece then not one piece my friend. Alright bro I'm gonna try and not to be mean here but this is terrible

- Never stated in the manga, if so find the panel. If what you stated specifically isn't stated, I'm clowning you hard for it.
- Again never stated in the manga
- No clue why you keep mentioning Garp, just like how you're not reading the manga right, looks to me you ain't reading my posts right too bruv. I already stated the superiority between Roger & Garp is unclear.
- Manga states him & Garp gave Xebec/ Whitebeard/ Kaido/ Big Mom / Shiki/etc a collective L, This hypes up Roger & Garp for laying a whooping on so many strong dudes.
- Manga doesn't say he tricked Big Mom, if so find the panel. Simply that they stole the poneglyph, whether they fought or not is not stated.


Shit dawg, since you yawning you're probably sleepy, let me order you some coffee so you can read my post and the manga properly.

 

[HA001]

You're reading two piece then not one piece my friend. Alright bro I'm gonna try and not to be mean here but this is terrible

- Never stated in the manga, if so find the panel. If what you stated specifically isn't stated, I'm clowning you hard for it.
- Again never stated in the manga
- No clue why you keep mentioning Garp, just like how you're not reading the manga right, looks to me you ain't reading my posts right too bruv. I already stated the superiority between Roger & Garp is unclear.
- Manga states him & Garp gave Xebec/ Whitebeard/ Kaido/ Big Mom / Shiki/etc a collective L, This hypes up Roger & Garp for laying a whooping on so many strong dudes.
- Manga doesn't say he tricked Big Mom, if so find the panel. Simply that they stole the poneglyph, whether they fought or not is not stated.


Shit dawg, since you yawning you're probably sleepy, let me order you some coffee so you can read my post and the manga properly.

Its in chapter 0

Its stated numerous times wb is his equal

We are talking about being the outright strongest. Garp is another person its questionable he was stronger than.

No where is it mentioned that they fought.

Its funny you acting like a smartarse keep it up

 

[ShadyOjiro]

It's simple really

- The yonko are the ones having the road poneglyphs leading to Laugh Tale, or at least we know for a fact Big Mom and Kaido have one each
- Because of this, it's important to either somehow manage to infiltrate them and steal the poneglyph copies or outright overcome them and take them
- Xebec was the one who originally started collecting the poneglyphs, so it makes sense that some of the remnants of the Rocks ended up having some of these stones

In Roger's case, Xebec was his greatest obstacle into getting them and thus needed strength to overcome him. Afterwards, Whitebeard reached his peak and ended up matching Prime Roger himself, but wasn't interested in the One Piece, but it doesn't dispute the fact that to become Pirate King in the first place, Roger needed strength to overcome his former rival Xebec who was already collecting the stones

In Luffy's case, he was already against simply stealing the poneglyphs and leave

Spoiler

And that's what led to this emoticon Simply because Luffy wants to prove he is worthy of the Pirate King title


That was 38 years ago. Roger wasn't in his prime

I don't recall Luffy saying he wants to be worthy tbh.

He is just a dork that wants to fight.

 

[TheoryKing]

Its in chapter 0

Its stated numerous times wb is his equal

We are talking about being the outright strongest. Garp is another person its questionable he was stronger than.

No where is it mentioned that they fought.

Its funny you acting like a smartarse keep it up

- Find the panel
- It's only stated once, the interpretation of which is questionable
- My post clearly states PK = strongest pirate. Is Garp a pirate? Idk why you keep mentioning him.
- That's why I never said he fought BM, now did I. We don't know if they fought or didn't, hence I never once talked about it.

Myyy dawgg, my bruuvv, you can't use the "smartarse" on me, when you start off your post with a "yawn" that shit is like textbook smartass 101. lmao hella serious man, damn.

 

[OEKaneki]

This stuff gets old, truly. People have done this to the Yonko (Shanks in particular), and now they’re trying to use this for the Pirate King?

The Pirate King is the top of the food chain. The Yonko are next. For anyone to suggest that those titles are more about the crew than the individual is ridiculous at this point, especially when Luffy himself has said that to be the King and to be the freest, he has to be the strongest and beat all the other top dogs.

Roger fought multiple top dogs, including Whitebeard, while he was sick. And was still the strongest. That’s why he’s so special.

We‘re going to get to the point where Luffy defeats Kaido and Big Mom and Shanks and Teach and people are going to try and say that he’s only Yonko level because of his crew. Just ridiculous.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Roger was not the strongest....his peak migth have been when he clashed with WB.

Even more when he became PK he was weaker .

Akainu is not strong as Roger yet the author said he would be PK in a year if he wanted.


At some grade you must be strong? Yes it's obvious .
You must be the strongest ? Not really.

BM only needed the giants by her side to become pk .


(Plus isn't this better..... the idea of untouchable character is lame )

 

[HA001]

- Find the panel
- It's only stated once, the interpretation of which is questionable
- My post clearly states PK = strongest pirate. Is Garp a pirate? Idk why you keep mentioning him.
- That's why I never said he fought BM, now did I. We don't know if they fought or didn't, hence I never once talked about it.

Myyy dawgg, my bruuvv, you can't use the "smartarse" on me, when you start off your post with a "yawn" that shit is like textbook smartass 101. lmao hella serious man, damn.

Lmfao.

Go read chapter 0.


More than once. He was stated and shown to be rogers equal numerous times.

I bring up garp because theres a list of people in his own era the pk never outright bested.

Nothing absolutely nothing suggests he fought meme.

 

[DizzyBrows]

Individual strength was never even implied as an actual requirement to becoming the Pirate King. Roger more than likely was inferior to WB when he was officially named the PK since WB was already a holder of the WSM title at that time and Roger was dearly suffering from his sickness at that same point in time.

Crew strength seems to be of more importance which is why the power was highlighted when it comes to Luffy by Mihawk.

 

[TheoryKing]

Lmfao.

Go read chapter 0.


More than once. He was stated and shown to be rogers equal numerous times.

I bring up garp because theres a list of people in his own era the pk never outright bested.

Nothing absolutely nothing suggests he fought meme.

- I did where did you think I got the panels of Sengoku & Shiki from, the panel of them tying doesn't exist, that's why I'm asking you to find it. lmao. Your boy is smart, wouldn't tell you to find a panel that I know exists.

- Actually only once, with the narration post MF during his death (and this all depends on your interpretation). With buggy saying WB fought roger to a standstill in a fight, which we now know only lasted 3 days and was non-all out, so essentially irrelevant. And what numerous times did you see man, I only saw them fight once so far, and that was for merely 3 days.

- Garp is not a pirate, that's why he's irrelevant. And the superiority is unclear. But when it comes to Pirates, the PK's superiority is clear.

I never mentioned big mom, just like I never mentioned Captain John, and etc who were big time pirates during that era, because there's nothing mentioned about their interaction with Roger.


Did the manga say ......
Mihawk beat Shanks in 1v1? No
Mihawk beat Rayleigh? No
Mihawk beat Fujitora? No
Mihawk beat Kizaru? No
Mihawk beat Vista? No
Mihawk beat Smoothie? No
Mihawk beat Shiryuu? No

You might as well apply that to Mihawk and say he's not the WSS because the manga doesn't tell us who he beat in a 1v1.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

- I did where did you think I got the panels of Sengoku & Shiki from, the panel of them tying doesn't exist, that's why I'm asking you to find it. lmao. Your boy is smart, wouldn't tell you to find a panel that I know exists.

- Actually only once, with the narration post MF during his death (and this all depends on your interpretation). With buggy saying WB fought roger to a standstill in a fight, which we now know only lasted 3 days and was non-all out, so essentially irrelevant. And what numerous times did you see man, I only saw them fight once so far, and that was for merely 3 days.

- Garp is not a pirate, that's why he's irrelevant. And the superiority is unclear. But when it comes to Pirates, the PK's superiority is clear.

I never mentioned big mom, just like I never mentioned Captain John, and etc who were big time pirates during that era, because there's nothing mentioned about their interaction with Roger.


Did the manga say ......
Mihawk beat Shanks in 1v1? No
Mihawk beat Rayleigh? No
Mihawk beat Fujitora? No
Mihawk beat Kizaru? No
Mihawk beat Vista? No
Mihawk beat Smoothie? No
Mihawk beat Shiryuu? No

You might as well apply that to Mihawk and say he's not the WSS because the manga doesn't tell us who he beat in a 1v1.

Manga tell us he is WSS currently .....