General & Others Why Kidd and Law are not Defeating Big Mom nor is anyone else in this arc.
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Y’all some serious kid haters, I don’t know why but it’s seriously sad yo. Like just say you don’t want kid specifically to beat big mom along side law. Especially since both of them are smart and plan junk out. Why wouldn’t they beat big mom? They make the perfect duo. We’ll get more of kids df and we’ll see more abilities law didn’t get to use on rooftop. Kid has more of an importance to the yonkos than luffy either way. Luffy just wants to pick a fight with them to be KOTP. But kid actually has beef with them. Even tho he has to defeat them as well to be PK. Before luffy picked a fight with big mom while speaking with her kid was mentioned, he even went to WCI‼️ So don’t say kid has no connections to big mom or has a reason to even fight her. We don’t even know the full story behind his invasion of whole cake either. Weirdos man
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1. Luffy can still easily be responsible for both Kaido and Big Moms downfall in this arc. And you have ignored that Luffy has already stated twice now that he plans on beating both of them here in Wano.
So which statements should we believe, the ones he made recently or the ones he made hundreds of chapters ago before he knew Big Mom would follow him to Wano? There’s a great chance that she leaves Wano as a permanent Olin which would still give Oda the chance to explore unfinished plot points with Pudding.
2. But...... Kidd actually does have history with Big Mom. Why do you think it hasn’t been revealed what he stole from her? If it was nothing important it would’ve been revealed in Udon. Why do you think when Big Mom as a character was first introduced on screen in Fishman island we immediately hear that Kidd is already fucking with her operations? It can be argued that Oda had always planned for Kidd to be greatly involved in Big Moms downfall. Oda has been paralleling Luffy/Kidd to Kaido/Big Mom all arc, and now Luffy is against Kaido and Kidd is against big mom. This is no coincidence.
In the same chapter:
Look who’s lined up with who:
3. You are assuming that because she has ties to Elbaf, it means she must fall in Elbaf. What if Oda wants to use Big Mom being defeated here as the way that the SHs will be welcomed into Elbaf as heroes? If the Elbaf arc focuses on Shanks, then we know Shanks would not be the kind of character to terrorize the citizens of Elbaf so Big Moms defeat in the previous arc can be used instead. Even if Big Mom goes to Elbaf who says it must be as the antagonist? What if she goes there as OLin? In fact the CP0 guys here could easily be a trigger for some big to happen as they look like the kids she ate in her flashback. There is plenty of set up and evidence for her to go down in Wano.
The fact of the matter is, Big Mom has already had her arc. In One Piece the island that the arc takes place on represents the main villain and WCI was that for Big Mom. That has past and now she has come here to Wano to fall as a co antagonist to Kaido.
4. Kidd has CoC, he could unlock adv CoC.....
Oda didn’t just give us a scene of Kaido telling us that Kidd is a conquerer for him to never do anything with it on screen. Especially in an arc like this one that is focused so much in CoC users. And once again, Luffy/Kidd Kaido/Big Mom has been paralleling through Wano. If out of the 4 conquerers, Luffy and Kaido both have adv CoC, it would be weird if Big Mom has it and then Kidd never gets it.
The yonko saga which dates back to the end of Fishman island has been about the New generation vs the old generation yonko. Kaido and Big Mom. Not just Kaido. They will both go down to the new generation here. Here goes another panel that makes it obvious the Rocks duo is meant to fall here
Stop sleeping on the New Generation. It isn’t just Luffy and Zoro. Kidd is Luffys rival and a supreme king in the new generation too for a reason. Y’all just won’t get it until the end lol. Like do you really think the first act of Wano ended with Luffy and Kidd meeting each other for no reason? Wake up
1. Luffy can still easily be responsible for both Kaido and Big Moms downfall in this arc. And you have ignored that Luffy has already stated twice now that he plans on beating both of them here in Wano.
So which statements should we believe, the ones he made recently or the ones he made hundreds of chapters ago before he knew Big Mom would follow him to Wano? There’s a great chance that she leaves Wano as a permanent Olin which would still give Oda the chance to explore unfinished plot points with Pudding.
2. But...... Kidd actually does have history with Big Mom. Why do you think it hasn’t been revealed what he stole from her? If it was nothing important it would’ve been revealed in Udon. Why do you think when Big Mom as a character was first introduced on screen in Fishman island we immediately hear that Kidd is already fucking with her operations? It can be argued that Oda had always planned for Kidd to be greatly involved in Big Moms downfall. Oda has been paralleling Luffy/Kidd to Kaido/Big Mom all arc, and now Luffy is against Kaido and Kidd is against big mom. This is no coincidence.
In the same chapter:
Look who’s lined up with who:
3. You are assuming that because she has ties to Elbaf, it means she must fall in Elbaf. What if Oda wants to use Big Mom being defeated here as the way that the SHs will be welcomed into Elbaf as heroes? If the Elbaf arc focuses on Shanks, then we know Shanks would not be the kind of character to terrorize the citizens of Elbaf so Big Moms defeat in the previous arc can be used instead. Even if Big Mom goes to Elbaf who says it must be as the antagonist? What if she goes there as OLin? In fact the CP0 guys here could easily be a trigger for some big to happen as they look like the kids she ate in her flashback. There is plenty of set up and evidence for her to go down in Wano.
The fact of the matter is, Big Mom has already had her arc. In One Piece the island that the arc takes place on represents the main villain and WCI was that for Big Mom. That has past and now she has come here to Wano to fall as a co antagonist to Kaido.
4. Kidd has CoC, he could unlock adv CoC.....
Oda didn’t just give us a scene of Kaido telling us that Kidd is a conquerer for him to never do anything with it on screen. Especially in an arc like this one that is focused so much in CoC users. And once again, Luffy/Kidd Kaido/Big Mom has been paralleling through Wano. If out of the 4 conquerers, Luffy and Kaido both have adv CoC, it would be weird if Big Mom has it and then Kidd never gets it.
The yonko saga which dates back to the end of Fishman island has been about the New generation vs the old generation yonko. Kaido and Big Mom. Not just Kaido. They will both go down to the new generation here. Here goes another panel that makes it obvious the Rocks duo is meant to fall here
Stop sleeping on the New Generation. It isn’t just Luffy and Zoro. Kidd is Luffys rival and a supreme king in the new generation too for a reason. Y’all just won’t get it until the end lol. Like do you really think the first act of Wano ended with Luffy and Kidd meeting each other for no reason? Wake up
Also you ignored the fact that Big mom wants to take Nico Robin so she can read the poneglyphs she has in WCI. This is Chapter 999
2.You would have had a point with Kidd if Law wasn't involved, You would have had a point with Kidd if Hawkins didn't make a doll out of him.....
3. ReggieZoldyck21 I want you to tell me where and how these things are going to be resolved ,
Big Mom eating her mother as well as those children and not knowing about it
Pudding Kissing Sanji, and Sanji not remembering it.....
The whereabouts of Germa 66 and Jimbei's cremates....
4. Even if Kidd unlocks the advanced conquers haki , it still wouldn't be enough, because Luffy still doesn't have enough. Kaido took those conquerors haki coated hits and was still fine.... So again even if Kidd hypothetically unlocked it, he'd still be behind, and its still not enough to justify a defeat by Kidd.
@pg13
1. Luffy can still easily be responsible for both Kaido and Big Moms downfall in this arc. And you have ignored that Luffy has already stated twice now that he plans on beating both of them here in Wano.
So which statements should we believe, the ones he made recently or the ones he made hundreds of chapters ago before he knew Big Mom would follow him to Wano? There’s a great chance that she leaves Wano as a permanent Olin which would still give Oda the chance to explore unfinished plot points with Pudding.
2. But...... Kidd actually does have history with Big Mom. Why do you think it hasn’t been revealed what he stole from her? If it was nothing important it would’ve been revealed in Udon. Why do you think when Big Mom as a character was first introduced on screen in Fishman island we immediately hear that Kidd is already fucking with her operations? It can be argued that Oda had always planned for Kidd to be greatly involved in Big Moms downfall. Oda has been paralleling Luffy/Kidd to Kaido/Big Mom all arc, and now Luffy is against Kaido and Kidd is against big mom. This is no coincidence.
In the same chapter:
Look who’s lined up with who:
3. You are assuming that because she has ties to Elbaf, it means she must fall in Elbaf. What if Oda wants to use Big Mom being defeated here as the way that the SHs will be welcomed into Elbaf as heroes? If the Elbaf arc focuses on Shanks, then we know Shanks would not be the kind of character to terrorize the citizens of Elbaf so Big Moms defeat in the previous arc can be used instead. Even if Big Mom goes to Elbaf who says it must be as the antagonist? What if she goes there as OLin? In fact the CP0 guys here could easily be a trigger for some big to happen as they look like the kids she ate in her flashback. There is plenty of set up and evidence for her to go down in Wano.
The fact of the matter is, Big Mom has already had her arc. In One Piece the island that the arc takes place on represents the main villain and WCI was that for Big Mom. That has past and now she has come here to Wano to fall as a co antagonist to Kaido.
4. Kidd has CoC, he could unlock adv CoC.....
Oda didn’t just give us a scene of Kaido telling us that Kidd is a conquerer for him to never do anything with it on screen. Especially in an arc like this one that is focused so much in CoC users. And once again, Luffy/Kidd Kaido/Big Mom has been paralleling through Wano. If out of the 4 conquerers, Luffy and Kaido both have adv CoC, it would be weird if Big Mom has it and then Kidd never gets it.
The yonko saga which dates back to the end of Fishman island has been about the New generation vs the old generation yonko. Kaido and Big Mom. Not just Kaido. They will both go down to the new generation here. Here goes another panel that makes it obvious the Rocks duo is meant to fall here
Stop sleeping on the New Generation. It isn’t just Luffy and Zoro. Kidd is Luffys rival and a supreme king in the new generation too for a reason. Y’all just won’t get it until the end lol. Like do you really think the first act of Wano ended with Luffy and Kidd meeting each other for no reason? Wake up
1. Luffy can still easily be responsible for both Kaido and Big Moms downfall in this arc. And you have ignored that Luffy has already stated twice now that he plans on beating both of them here in Wano.
So which statements should we believe, the ones he made recently or the ones he made hundreds of chapters ago before he knew Big Mom would follow him to Wano? There’s a great chance that she leaves Wano as a permanent Olin which would still give Oda the chance to explore unfinished plot points with Pudding.
2. But...... Kidd actually does have history with Big Mom. Why do you think it hasn’t been revealed what he stole from her? If it was nothing important it would’ve been revealed in Udon. Why do you think when Big Mom as a character was first introduced on screen in Fishman island we immediately hear that Kidd is already fucking with her operations? It can be argued that Oda had always planned for Kidd to be greatly involved in Big Moms downfall. Oda has been paralleling Luffy/Kidd to Kaido/Big Mom all arc, and now Luffy is against Kaido and Kidd is against big mom. This is no coincidence.
In the same chapter:
Look who’s lined up with who:
3. You are assuming that because she has ties to Elbaf, it means she must fall in Elbaf. What if Oda wants to use Big Mom being defeated here as the way that the SHs will be welcomed into Elbaf as heroes? If the Elbaf arc focuses on Shanks, then we know Shanks would not be the kind of character to terrorize the citizens of Elbaf so Big Moms defeat in the previous arc can be used instead. Even if Big Mom goes to Elbaf who says it must be as the antagonist? What if she goes there as OLin? In fact the CP0 guys here could easily be a trigger for some big to happen as they look like the kids she ate in her flashback. There is plenty of set up and evidence for her to go down in Wano.
The fact of the matter is, Big Mom has already had her arc. In One Piece the island that the arc takes place on represents the main villain and WCI was that for Big Mom. That has past and now she has come here to Wano to fall as a co antagonist to Kaido.
4. Kidd has CoC, he could unlock adv CoC.....
Oda didn’t just give us a scene of Kaido telling us that Kidd is a conquerer for him to never do anything with it on screen. Especially in an arc like this one that is focused so much in CoC users. And once again, Luffy/Kidd Kaido/Big Mom has been paralleling through Wano. If out of the 4 conquerers, Luffy and Kaido both have adv CoC, it would be weird if Big Mom has it and then Kidd never gets it.
The yonko saga which dates back to the end of Fishman island has been about the New generation vs the old generation yonko. Kaido and Big Mom. Not just Kaido. They will both go down to the new generation here. Here goes another panel that makes it obvious the Rocks duo is meant to fall here
Stop sleeping on the New Generation. It isn’t just Luffy and Zoro. Kidd is Luffys rival and a supreme king in the new generation too for a reason. Y’all just won’t get it until the end lol. Like do you really think the first act of Wano ended with Luffy and Kidd meeting each other for no reason? Wake up
Eustasszay are you seriously asking why we don't think Kidd and Law can be beat Big Mom? This isn't like going from Veteran to Commander level its not some 1 level jump your talking about here. The best we have about Kidd and Law is that they can fight and injure commanders , and that's being generous to Law since prior to this arc he lost to doflamingo. Do you remember what Luffy did to obtain the ryuo technique ..... 2 weeks of training, then in chapter 1010 he said its still not enough, and finally figured out that conquerors haki can be applied to his attacks.
I'll give you this... Kidd and Law are the perfect Duo to stall Big Mom. But that's about it.
I'll give you this... Kidd and Law are the perfect Duo to stall Big Mom. But that's about it.
1. I didn't Ignore it, and you do make a good point..... However, you ignored the fact that Luffy said in chapter 1015, he's going to beat Kaido..... there's no mention of Big Mom....
Also you ignored the fact that Big mom wants to take Nico Robin so she can read the poneglyphs she has in WCI. This is Chapter 999
Also you ignored the fact that Big mom wants to take Nico Robin so she can read the poneglyphs she has in WCI. This is Chapter 999
Notice the moments where Luffy declares that he’s here to send Kaido, Orochi, and Big Mom flying. It’s at the beginning of the battle where the declaration of war is made and where he gathers his crew and says “we’ll throw a party after we beat Kaido and Big Mom”. The fact that Oda drew a whole big scene before the war kicks off where Big Mom literally asks if Luffy is here to beat Kaido and Luffy says, “no I’m here to kick all your asses” is him specifically telling us that Kaido is not the only one who needs to go down here. This was no little scene it was a declaration to the Yonkos face. The panel you showed me from 1015 doesn’t discredit this scene one bit. The goal that had been set up is to take Kaido, Big Mom, and Orochi down.
What? Your point was that Kidd and Law have nothing to do with Big Mom. My point back to you was yes Kidd does. And it has to be pretty significant as what Kidd stolen was intentionally kept a secret by the author. Also he was immediately brought up messing with her when Big Mom was first introduced. Again, why do you think Oda keeps setting up parallels between Luffy/Kidd Kaido/Big Mom in the panels I sent? Are you going to tell me it’s for no reason or that it’s a coincidence?
Hawkins making a doll for Kidd is irrelevant to the argument and Law helping could mean anything. Maybe he’s there to be support. Maybe he’s there to let Kidd know about adv CoC since he saw Luffy do it on the roof. Or he’s there because Kidd can’t defeat a Yonko on his own at this point. But anyway it’s clear that Kidd is the main guy in this fight as he’s the one who first took it upon himself to chase Big Mom, he’s the CoC user, and he’s the one with history with her.
Speaking of Law, it’s funny you say that he has nothing to do with Big Mom because just like Kidd, Oda has set up a bit of a connection with Big Mom. Go look up the connections between the real life “Battle of Trafalgar”/Waterlow and the commander Napoleon, you might be surprised lol
I have no idea how these are going to be resolved. (Except for the eaten children’s one lol. That one could be resolved with the CP0 members who look like the children). What I’m saying is you can’t assume that those plot points must be resolved with Big Mom being the main antagonist of some arc after this one. I’m saying you can’t ignore that there are solid arguments for Big Mom going down in Wano simply because those plot points exist. They can be handled and she can still take an L here. I’m not saying she’s gonna die here, I’m just saying that it’s pretty clearly being set up for her to fall as an emperor here. Again I think she’s leaving this arc as a permanent O Lin.
I never said Kidd was going to defeat her alone though. I don’t believe Luffy or Kidd can defeat a yonko alone. Lol In fact I don’t even think Kidd and Law will beat her alone. I think at some point Killer (maybe), Hawkins, Apoo, Ulti, Page One, and finally Luffy (Luffy and Kidd vs Kaido and Big Mom finale) will help him. But I do think he’ll be the leader/main player against her though and that disapproving anything significant happening to BM because her opponents don’t have adv CoC is dumb. Because one of the guys fighting her has CoC and could easily and will most likely achieve adv CoC at some point in the fight.
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All your points seem to prove that Law and Kid should return to the roof to fight Kaido once Big Mom betrays and makes a grab for the poneglyph + Robin
of course that would make the most sense since that is the reason the 3 of them are even allied anyway, but then oda seems determined for Luffy to show off
Also stop downplaying law and kid, they are both clearly yc1+ since zoro is matched to king and they are matched to yonko TWICE
of course that would make the most sense since that is the reason the 3 of them are even allied anyway, but then oda seems determined for Luffy to show off
Also stop downplaying law and kid, they are both clearly yc1+ since zoro is matched to king and they are matched to yonko TWICE
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Idk, the arc is putting a lot of emphasis on Kaido's defeat...not Big Moms..... Big Mom hasn't even taken Damage, and it doesn't really matter how many character you add to the Kidd and law fight , if they don't know how to seriously hurt a Yonko its meaningless, that's why Kaido is fine despite fighting 15 characters by now.
That's what I thought from the start. I even feel like Big Mom's role in this arc is to betray Kaido in the end.
There are clues for me:
-His children are not present on the battlefield
-She told her oldest son to trust her -She wants to take the poneglyph
-She will see with her own eyes the defeat of her friend Kaido at the hands of Luffy. Remember Big Mom told Luffy who is never going to beat Kaido, except that with the items Oda put in place Luffy is going to beat Kaido.
We will surely have a flashback on Kaido before he loses. She will escape from Wano thanks to her children who will save her. By the time Luffy defeats Kaido, Kid, Law, and more will hold Big Mom back like Sabo did in Dressrosa against Fujitora.
And then even it can be seen that it is not the main villain to kill for the alliance:
-There is no particular hatred of a whole people as usual against her
-His crew don't even fight -She is still too restrained -
There are still a lot of things to settle with her in Erbaf besides everything is logical:
-The people of Erbaf are mad at Big Mom and Big Mom is having trouble with the giants.
And the Mugis go where after Wano according to the map? Erbaf
When the mugis go to an island he befriends the people who want revenge on the Tyrant who hurt them.
And as luck would have it, there is a conflict between Big Mom and the giants and princes of Erbaf Big Mom has a very, very high chance of being beaten in Erbaf.
It would also make sense in Luffy's progression
To Wano-Onigashima:
I beat an emperor by being helped by several people at the start of the fight and I develop Powers-Ups but which I do not fully master
To Erbaf: I show that I can beat an emperor with much less help
Last Arc: I defeat my lifelong rival / enemy Blackbeard on my own for my title of Pirate King
There are clues for me:
-His children are not present on the battlefield
-She told her oldest son to trust her -She wants to take the poneglyph
-She will see with her own eyes the defeat of her friend Kaido at the hands of Luffy. Remember Big Mom told Luffy who is never going to beat Kaido, except that with the items Oda put in place Luffy is going to beat Kaido.
We will surely have a flashback on Kaido before he loses. She will escape from Wano thanks to her children who will save her. By the time Luffy defeats Kaido, Kid, Law, and more will hold Big Mom back like Sabo did in Dressrosa against Fujitora.
And then even it can be seen that it is not the main villain to kill for the alliance:
-There is no particular hatred of a whole people as usual against her
-His crew don't even fight -She is still too restrained -
There are still a lot of things to settle with her in Erbaf besides everything is logical:
-The people of Erbaf are mad at Big Mom and Big Mom is having trouble with the giants.
And the Mugis go where after Wano according to the map? Erbaf
When the mugis go to an island he befriends the people who want revenge on the Tyrant who hurt them.
And as luck would have it, there is a conflict between Big Mom and the giants and princes of Erbaf Big Mom has a very, very high chance of being beaten in Erbaf.
It would also make sense in Luffy's progression
To Wano-Onigashima:
I beat an emperor by being helped by several people at the start of the fight and I develop Powers-Ups but which I do not fully master
To Erbaf: I show that I can beat an emperor with much less help
Last Arc: I defeat my lifelong rival / enemy Blackbeard on my own for my title of Pirate King
Exactly their here to defeat Kaido , it make more sense for them to get to the roof somehow.
Well hang on....defeating King more likely than Big Mom being defeated, since king is a beast pirates and they are falling. Big Mom is an unknown entity, so just because their matched with her doesn't mean their going to defeat her. And idk about that YC1+ Take..... Kidd and Law haven't done anything Marco or Katakuri could not do.
Well hang on....defeating King more likely than Big Mom being defeated, since king is a beast pirates and they are falling. Big Mom is an unknown entity, so just because their matched with her doesn't mean their going to defeat her. And idk about that YC1+ Take..... Kidd and Law haven't done anything Marco or Katakuri could not do.
i dont disagree with law but kid is absolutely over YC1s. i dont see either Marco or Katakuri take a punch from big mom to the face and shrug it off like nothing ever happened.
the best part? that is just one of the multiple attacks Kid took in this battle and he's still powering on without any healing.
the best part? that is just one of the multiple attacks Kid took in this battle and he's still powering on without any healing.
We all know how oda draws haki and the inconsistency in its depiction. If that's gonna be your argument then you gotta accept that sanji hasn't used armament hardening in the series till date. And big mom is canonically nerfed in her Olin form and there goes your argument about Queen.
As I said earlier, this is just ONE of the multiple attacks Kid took. He tanked Fulgora full on, an attack which broke the dome of Onigashima and was probably coated in adv CoC, looking at the black lightning jettisoning off of the impact.
I don't see any Yonko Commander, maybe Benn Beckman but I consider him above YC1s slighty, doing better than Kid at the rooftop battle. None of them have shown the ability to hurt Yonkos. Punk Rotten couldn't significantly damage Kaido but I'm pretty sure Yonko Commanders are gonna feel hell when they face it.
And can they tank the damage that he has taken till now and still fight on? maybe Marco (by virtue of his fruit) but the others aren't.
As I said earlier, this is just ONE of the multiple attacks Kid took. He tanked Fulgora full on, an attack which broke the dome of Onigashima and was probably coated in adv CoC, looking at the black lightning jettisoning off of the impact.
I don't see any Yonko Commander, maybe Benn Beckman but I consider him above YC1s slighty, doing better than Kid at the rooftop battle. None of them have shown the ability to hurt Yonkos. Punk Rotten couldn't significantly damage Kaido but I'm pretty sure Yonko Commanders are gonna feel hell when they face it.
And can they tank the damage that he has taken till now and still fight on? maybe Marco (by virtue of his fruit) but the others aren't.
This is a stupid post saying that kid and law are YC1+ when they're facing BM when most of the battle is going to be offpanel and BM is not going to be down,in fact law is at Zoro's level (yc1)and we could consider kidd above them because he is luffy's rival I know that BM is not going to be defeated in this arc but if kid doesn't show good feats against her,he wouldn't be no longer luffy's rival and he would be YC1 like(law/zoro)
