General & Others One Piece, Max Weber and The Domination Concept
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Amazing thread! I can actually see Oda keeping this as the base of CoC in a lot of ways. It also explains how the admirals might have it too which was always a doubt in my mind because of them not really being 'leaders'. This thread should actually be shared across the community for people to get a better understanding on this topic.
Actually, this thread made me think that Sanji might actually have better chances than I thought earlier. He's charismatic enough to have changed people's entire personalities including Gin, Pudding and even a little of his mindless Germa brothers at the end of WCI.
The scene where WB hugs Squard even though he stabbed him which made the latter regret what he did and when Sanji complimented Pudding for her 3rd eye when she was about to shoot him which led her to regret/hesitate in what she was about to do are pretty similar in this sense. Not the same thing at all but the concept of them making the other person question their actions is similar. Still not entirely confident that he'll get it tho. This is just one aspect anyway.
Actually, this thread made me think that Sanji might actually have better chances than I thought earlier. He's charismatic enough to have changed people's entire personalities including Gin, Pudding and even a little of his mindless Germa brothers at the end of WCI.
The scene where WB hugs Squard even though he stabbed him which made the latter regret what he did and when Sanji complimented Pudding for her 3rd eye when she was about to shoot him which led her to regret/hesitate in what she was about to do are pretty similar in this sense. Not the same thing at all but the concept of them making the other person question their actions is similar. Still not entirely confident that he'll get it tho. This is just one aspect anyway.
Well, in Wano/Onigashima, Oda has been focusing on "Color of Conqueror" and the influence this power exerts on the world.
Except the kingly qualities(something that still subjective for many readers), I would like to analyze and compare the characteristics of characters with this ability within Weberian sociology.
First, I'll make a little adaptation and treat both "dominate and conquer" as synonyms(Haoshoku Haki was showed as a imposition of will on others and not necessarily the possession of material things). With that said, we can start!
Power and Domination
"Weber defined power as the chance that an individual in a social relationship can achieve his or her own will even against the resistance of others. And the use of that will in order to give specific commands can be recognized as domination."
In that sense, we can draw the following parallel:
WILL------>POWER------->DOMINATION (Natural process)
WILL------>CoC----------->Intimidation/Incapacitation/(One Piece process)
The three types of Authority
Our sociologist divides authorities(forms of exercising domination) into three different types: Traditional; Charismatic and Legal. Now, I'll explain each type and classify CoC users into referred categories.
-Traditional Authority
*Characters: Big Mom; Kaido; Chinjao; Boa Hancock; Blackbeard(?) and Xebec(?)
This is the type of authority where the traditional rights of a powerful and dominant individual or group are accepted, or at least not challenged, by subordinate individuals. These could be religious, sacred, or spiritual forms, well established and slowly changing culture, family, or clan type structures. The dominant individual could be a priest, clan leader, family head, some other patriarch, or a dominant elite might govern."Traditional authority is based on a claim by the leaders, and a belief on the part of the followers, that there is virtue in the sanctity of age-old rules and powers".
Big Mom:
She's a matriarch and Queen of Toto Land. Her sons respect and follow her will due to a bloody connection, one of the most primordial and powerful forms of relationship. As for the kingdom's subjects, they submit to Linlin through her founding and leader figure. In special cases, she can use fear to ensure her domination over the inhabitants.
Kaido:
He's the leader of Beasts Pirates. Well, if we take a look at his crew, it's easily to find a lot of commons characteristics among its members: Zoan users, similar garments and accessories like horns. Also, we know that Kaido define himself and Yamato as Onis, as a different race. With these facts, I guess it's not that hard to see BP as an artificial clan(or an attempt of it). The Yonko rules here through his strenght and possible patriarch figure.
Don Chinjao
He's the leader of Chinjao Family. In a similar way to Linlin, Chinjao is a patriarch and exerts the influence and power through his blood relatives. The importance of his family treasure and the care for Sai are great signals of that.
Boa Hancock
She's the captain of Kuja Pirates and the current empress of Amazon Lily. Her both positions are cultural/historic related altough she presents a great charisma.
(?)Blackbeard
He's the leader and Admiral of Bb Pirates. As the title itself says, the relation between BB and his titanic captains follows a military structure and linked entirely to the desire for power. There's no clearly statements and the sudden recruitment of extremely dangerous prisoners is a good indication that order in the group is maintained only through the use of force(represented in figure of the admiral).
(?)Xebec
He's the Captain of Rocks Pirates. We know almost nothing about him but he seems to had similar traits to BB.
-Charismatic Authority
*Characters: Luffy, Roger, Zoro, Shanks, Whitebeard, Kid, Rayleigh, Doflamingo, Oden, Ace and Katakuri
Weber defines charismatic authority as "resting on devotion to the exceptional sanctity, heroism or exemplary character of an individual person, and of the normative patterns or order revealed or ordained by him". That is, charisma is a quality of an individual personality that is considered extraordinary, and followers may consider this quality to be endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or exceptional powers or qualities. Whether such powers actually exist or not is irrelevant – the fact that followers believe that such powers exist is what is important.
Max also considers charisma to be a driving and creative force which surges through traditional authority and established rules. The sole basis of charismatic authority is the recognition or acceptance of the claims of the leader by the followers. While it is irrational, in that it is not calculable or systematic, it can be revolutionary, breaking traditional rule and can even challenge legal authority.
Luffy:
"It's not some sort of special power, but he has the ability to make allies of everyone he meets. And that is the most fearsome ability on the high seas..."
Mihawk's speech make clear to the readers: "Charisma is Luffy's strongest power". There's no much to explain here, SH invitations, Grand Fleet creation and now the Samurai Alliance shows how Luffy is portrayed as a great Leader, and as consequence, a Conqueror.
Zoro:
“I'm going to be the world's greatest swordsman! All I have left is my destiny! My name may be infamous...but it's gonna shake the world!!!”
Roronoa Zoro being a Conqueror isn't a surprise, but maybe you can ask me "Thuru, why a charismatic one?". Well, like I previously explained, this kind of autorithy is related to examplary/admiration, something that definitely fits our swordsman. His hard-work captives Momonosuke(as we can see during their training), back to the beggining of the story we also have Jonnhy and Yosaku, but best evidence is this cover page:
Here we can see that Santoryu, Zoro's own style, has been learned by all kids from his old Dojo. The story from a simple man, with just his swords and willpower, can inspire the whole world.
Whitebeard:
"It doesn't matter who you are born to, everyone is a child of the sea and it is wrong to resent a child for his father's sins."
Strongest Man in the World, Rival of Pirate King... WB doesn't need introductions. You're probably wondering why WB isn't in the "traditional autorithy" if his domination was direct related to his family. Well, actually, WB's family wasn't built through blood like Chinjao or BM, but it was forged with care, apprenticeship, love and some punches. His charisma was the key, and the proof is that even the Ace, another conqueror, was dominated by this man.
Whitebeard could have conquered all the seas and islands of the world, but instead of that, this man chose to conquer hearts"
Doflamingo:
"I lost my mother when I was 8...and killed my father when I was 10. Those with the title of "Executive" or above are my "family" with whom I've shared my joys and sorrows. They're the only thing I have! I won't forgive anyone that laughs at my family. Understood?"
I believe this quote is enough to proof why Donquixote Doflamingo is here. Like WB, Doffy won a family, not through his Tenryuubito status, but through his own effort and experience lived with these persons. Off course, if we analyze in his perspective of Dressrosa's King, he would fits the previous category. However, looking at the deepest part his characterization, this place belongs to him.
Shanks:
"You Can Pour Drinks On Me. You Can Throw Food At Me. You Can Even Spit On Me. I'll Just Laugh That Stuff Off. But...Good Reason Or Not...Nobody Hurts A Friend Of Mine!"
We didn't saw much from Redhair, but looking at his few scenes, it's notorious the similarities between RHP and SH dynamic, specially when we look at Shanks as Luffy's EOS objective. His character has a lot of potential, specially his connections with World Governament and maybe the Underworld. For now, I'll place him here.
Oden:
"Oden wouldn't be Oden if it wasn't boiled"
Kozuki Oden was the Daimyo of Kuri and son of the former Shogun. Using his massive strenght and intense personality, Oden conquered each one of his "Scabbards" without needing his "social status". He died protecting his friends and allies, thus becoming a heroic figure for the country of Wano.
Roger and Rayleigh
"Maybe nothing in this world happens by accident. As everything happens for a reason, our destiny slowly takes form..."
"Do you wanna turn the world upside down with me?"
Our former Pirate King duo; "Gold and Silver"; "Sun and Moon".
These both mans reached the peak of the world, achieved the One Piece and discovered the truth behind everything. But more important than that, they conquered the respect from rivals, allies and enemies, being greeted by all as legends. Roger's charisma can be noticed in the way his crew loved him, no matter how strong or powerful you are, true bonds are made through adventure.
Kid
"Compared to the 'righteous' greed of the rulers, the criminals of the world seem much more honorable."
The man portrayed as rival of Future Pirate King and one of the leaders of next generation, Eustass Kid has been showing a great will along the current arc, mainly with regard to Killer and the rest of his crew. The mutual confidence covered in the last chapters can't be achieved with a simple skill demonstration , Kid's will and leader figure are the reason why Killer can give can give his total.
-Legal or Rational Authority
*Characters: Sengoku, Akainu(?) and other admirals(?)
This is authority or legitimate domination resting on "rational grounds – resting on a belief in the legality of enacted rules and the right of those elevated to authority under such rules to issues commands.
There are various ways that legal authority could develop. Systems of convention, laws and regulation develop in many societies, and there are many different principles of legality that occur. The development of law in the West leads to establishment of a legal system, such that there is a rule of law, written legal codes, legal rights and rules, and the "professionalized administration of justice by persons who have received their legal training formally and systematically.". In the West, Weber connects these forms to the development of rationality and bureaucracy. Other legal forms in societies in other parts of the world could develop in quite a different direction, perhaps blocking the development of rationality.
Navy is the military arm of the world government and the closest thing we have to a real life structure. Characterized by a well-defined hierarchy and a rigid system of rules,the centerpiece of this puzzle turns out to be the Fleet Admiral. This position is responsible for managing the sailors, negotiating with the Gorosei, but more important: determine the ideology to be followed during the term.
However, the big difference between the legal authority and the other two is: While in the traditional and charismatic, the organization is at the service of the leader, here the leader is at service of the organization.
Different from the domination exercised by pirates, marines are subject to laws that restrict their actions at certain points. On the plus side, this allows for greater control and manipulation of all the parts that make it up.
That's it, I tried to be as objective and simple as possible, I hope you enjoyed the read. I've been an useless user in the last months so I think it's important to contribute with the community sometimes. I know I forgot to add Mihawk, but I really don't know where to place him, maybe @Den_Den_Mushi would have an idea.
If you think someone can enjoy this read, please tag them. Also, if you didn't enjoyed, feel free to criticize me :)
Except the kingly qualities(something that still subjective for many readers), I would like to analyze and compare the characteristics of characters with this ability within Weberian sociology.
First, I'll make a little adaptation and treat both "dominate and conquer" as synonyms(Haoshoku Haki was showed as a imposition of will on others and not necessarily the possession of material things). With that said, we can start!
Power and Domination
"Weber defined power as the chance that an individual in a social relationship can achieve his or her own will even against the resistance of others. And the use of that will in order to give specific commands can be recognized as domination."
In that sense, we can draw the following parallel:
WILL------>POWER------->DOMINATION (Natural process)
WILL------>CoC----------->Intimidation/Incapacitation/(One Piece process)
The three types of Authority
Our sociologist divides authorities(forms of exercising domination) into three different types: Traditional; Charismatic and Legal. Now, I'll explain each type and classify CoC users into referred categories.
-Traditional Authority
*Characters: Big Mom; Kaido; Chinjao; Boa Hancock; Blackbeard(?) and Xebec(?)
This is the type of authority where the traditional rights of a powerful and dominant individual or group are accepted, or at least not challenged, by subordinate individuals. These could be religious, sacred, or spiritual forms, well established and slowly changing culture, family, or clan type structures. The dominant individual could be a priest, clan leader, family head, some other patriarch, or a dominant elite might govern."Traditional authority is based on a claim by the leaders, and a belief on the part of the followers, that there is virtue in the sanctity of age-old rules and powers".
Big Mom:
She's a matriarch and Queen of Toto Land. Her sons respect and follow her will due to a bloody connection, one of the most primordial and powerful forms of relationship. As for the kingdom's subjects, they submit to Linlin through her founding and leader figure. In special cases, she can use fear to ensure her domination over the inhabitants.
Kaido:
He's the leader of Beasts Pirates. Well, if we take a look at his crew, it's easily to find a lot of commons characteristics among its members: Zoan users, similar garments and accessories like horns. Also, we know that Kaido define himself and Yamato as Onis, as a different race. With these facts, I guess it's not that hard to see BP as an artificial clan(or an attempt of it). The Yonko rules here through his strenght and possible patriarch figure.
Don Chinjao
He's the leader of Chinjao Family. In a similar way to Linlin, Chinjao is a patriarch and exerts the influence and power through his blood relatives. The importance of his family treasure and the care for Sai are great signals of that.
Boa Hancock
She's the captain of Kuja Pirates and the current empress of Amazon Lily. Her both positions are cultural/historic related altough she presents a great charisma.
(?)Blackbeard
He's the leader and Admiral of Bb Pirates. As the title itself says, the relation between BB and his titanic captains follows a military structure and linked entirely to the desire for power. There's no clearly statements and the sudden recruitment of extremely dangerous prisoners is a good indication that order in the group is maintained only through the use of force(represented in figure of the admiral).
(?)Xebec
He's the Captain of Rocks Pirates. We know almost nothing about him but he seems to had similar traits to BB.
-Charismatic Authority
*Characters: Luffy, Roger, Zoro, Shanks, Whitebeard, Kid, Rayleigh, Doflamingo, Oden, Ace and Katakuri
Weber defines charismatic authority as "resting on devotion to the exceptional sanctity, heroism or exemplary character of an individual person, and of the normative patterns or order revealed or ordained by him". That is, charisma is a quality of an individual personality that is considered extraordinary, and followers may consider this quality to be endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or exceptional powers or qualities. Whether such powers actually exist or not is irrelevant – the fact that followers believe that such powers exist is what is important.
Max also considers charisma to be a driving and creative force which surges through traditional authority and established rules. The sole basis of charismatic authority is the recognition or acceptance of the claims of the leader by the followers. While it is irrational, in that it is not calculable or systematic, it can be revolutionary, breaking traditional rule and can even challenge legal authority.
Luffy:
"It's not some sort of special power, but he has the ability to make allies of everyone he meets. And that is the most fearsome ability on the high seas..."
Mihawk's speech make clear to the readers: "Charisma is Luffy's strongest power". There's no much to explain here, SH invitations, Grand Fleet creation and now the Samurai Alliance shows how Luffy is portrayed as a great Leader, and as consequence, a Conqueror.
Zoro:
“I'm going to be the world's greatest swordsman! All I have left is my destiny! My name may be infamous...but it's gonna shake the world!!!”
Roronoa Zoro being a Conqueror isn't a surprise, but maybe you can ask me "Thuru, why a charismatic one?". Well, like I previously explained, this kind of autorithy is related to examplary/admiration, something that definitely fits our swordsman. His hard-work captives Momonosuke(as we can see during their training), back to the beggining of the story we also have Jonnhy and Yosaku, but best evidence is this cover page:
Whitebeard:
"It doesn't matter who you are born to, everyone is a child of the sea and it is wrong to resent a child for his father's sins."
Strongest Man in the World, Rival of Pirate King... WB doesn't need introductions. You're probably wondering why WB isn't in the "traditional autorithy" if his domination was direct related to his family. Well, actually, WB's family wasn't built through blood like Chinjao or BM, but it was forged with care, apprenticeship, love and some punches. His charisma was the key, and the proof is that even the Ace, another conqueror, was dominated by this man.
Whitebeard could have conquered all the seas and islands of the world, but instead of that, this man chose to conquer hearts"
Doflamingo:
"I lost my mother when I was 8...and killed my father when I was 10. Those with the title of "Executive" or above are my "family" with whom I've shared my joys and sorrows. They're the only thing I have! I won't forgive anyone that laughs at my family. Understood?"
I believe this quote is enough to proof why Donquixote Doflamingo is here. Like WB, Doffy won a family, not through his Tenryuubito status, but through his own effort and experience lived with these persons. Off course, if we analyze in his perspective of Dressrosa's King, he would fits the previous category. However, looking at the deepest part his characterization, this place belongs to him.
Shanks:
"You Can Pour Drinks On Me. You Can Throw Food At Me. You Can Even Spit On Me. I'll Just Laugh That Stuff Off. But...Good Reason Or Not...Nobody Hurts A Friend Of Mine!"
We didn't saw much from Redhair, but looking at his few scenes, it's notorious the similarities between RHP and SH dynamic, specially when we look at Shanks as Luffy's EOS objective. His character has a lot of potential, specially his connections with World Governament and maybe the Underworld. For now, I'll place him here.
Oden:
"Oden wouldn't be Oden if it wasn't boiled"
Kozuki Oden was the Daimyo of Kuri and son of the former Shogun. Using his massive strenght and intense personality, Oden conquered each one of his "Scabbards" without needing his "social status". He died protecting his friends and allies, thus becoming a heroic figure for the country of Wano.
Roger and Rayleigh
"Maybe nothing in this world happens by accident. As everything happens for a reason, our destiny slowly takes form..."
"Do you wanna turn the world upside down with me?"
Our former Pirate King duo; "Gold and Silver"; "Sun and Moon".
These both mans reached the peak of the world, achieved the One Piece and discovered the truth behind everything. But more important than that, they conquered the respect from rivals, allies and enemies, being greeted by all as legends. Roger's charisma can be noticed in the way his crew loved him, no matter how strong or powerful you are, true bonds are made through adventure.
Kid
"Compared to the 'righteous' greed of the rulers, the criminals of the world seem much more honorable."
The man portrayed as rival of Future Pirate King and one of the leaders of next generation, Eustass Kid has been showing a great will along the current arc, mainly with regard to Killer and the rest of his crew. The mutual confidence covered in the last chapters can't be achieved with a simple skill demonstration , Kid's will and leader figure are the reason why Killer can give can give his total.
-Legal or Rational Authority
*Characters: Sengoku, Akainu(?) and other admirals(?)
This is authority or legitimate domination resting on "rational grounds – resting on a belief in the legality of enacted rules and the right of those elevated to authority under such rules to issues commands.
There are various ways that legal authority could develop. Systems of convention, laws and regulation develop in many societies, and there are many different principles of legality that occur. The development of law in the West leads to establishment of a legal system, such that there is a rule of law, written legal codes, legal rights and rules, and the "professionalized administration of justice by persons who have received their legal training formally and systematically.". In the West, Weber connects these forms to the development of rationality and bureaucracy. Other legal forms in societies in other parts of the world could develop in quite a different direction, perhaps blocking the development of rationality.
Navy is the military arm of the world government and the closest thing we have to a real life structure. Characterized by a well-defined hierarchy and a rigid system of rules,the centerpiece of this puzzle turns out to be the Fleet Admiral. This position is responsible for managing the sailors, negotiating with the Gorosei, but more important: determine the ideology to be followed during the term.
However, the big difference between the legal authority and the other two is: While in the traditional and charismatic, the organization is at the service of the leader, here the leader is at service of the organization.
Different from the domination exercised by pirates, marines are subject to laws that restrict their actions at certain points. On the plus side, this allows for greater control and manipulation of all the parts that make it up.
That's it, I tried to be as objective and simple as possible, I hope you enjoyed the read. I've been an useless user in the last months so I think it's important to contribute with the community sometimes. I know I forgot to add Mihawk, but I really don't know where to place him, maybe @Den_Den_Mushi would have an idea.
If you think someone can enjoy this read, please tag them. Also, if you didn't enjoyed, feel free to criticize me :)
@solis
@Jew D. Boy
@Peroroncino @Akai2 @PizzaBread @Bango🍅 @Reborn @ConquistadoR @bennbeckman @Salah WG @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @Night Raid @Enryu @Garp the Fist @Zoro D Goat @Alpha @General Duke Hyuo @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @AdmiralKinyagi @Finalbeta @Cinera @Bullet @Yo Tan Wa @Jailer @Tyki_Mikk @RayanOO @nik87 @Seth @Chrono @Dragoban @Natalija @Yasheen @Queek Hea D Taker @Cuistot @Veku @rerere @ReggieZoldyck21 @YASER @Bakazuki Bakainu @Cross_Marian @Kagura @KiriNigiri @mly90 @PuckTheGreat @Cinera @Rej @TheKnightOfTheSea @The White Crane @Bogard @Pantheos @RobertoTheOharaSurvivor @Zemmi @zzShinichi @Gol D. Roger @Van @TheAncientCenturion @Wakid @Weeman @minamoto @Sasparan @Shanal @NAMELESS @Kagura @Rosella.Fiamingo @AoFuji @Rayleigh-Sama @Adam 🍎 @Shisui_038 @JazzMazz @Hiragaro @Sentinel @Zowo @matt245 @Red Admiral @Abysmal @Luffy is the mc @Kurodiamondo @Kuro Ashi @Roronoa-sama @Worona Woro @Tai long @garciajulieen @Charlotte LinLin @Kromage911 @Guan Yu @kumae @stormylife
@Jew D. Boy
@Peroroncino @Akai2 @PizzaBread @Bango🍅 @Reborn @ConquistadoR @bennbeckman @Salah WG @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @Night Raid @Enryu @Garp the Fist @Zoro D Goat @Alpha @General Duke Hyuo @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @AdmiralKinyagi @Finalbeta @Cinera @Bullet @Yo Tan Wa @Jailer @Tyki_Mikk @RayanOO @nik87 @Seth @Chrono @Dragoban @Natalija @Yasheen @Queek Hea D Taker @Cuistot @Veku @rerere @ReggieZoldyck21 @YASER @Bakazuki Bakainu @Cross_Marian @Kagura @KiriNigiri @mly90 @PuckTheGreat @Cinera @Rej @TheKnightOfTheSea @The White Crane @Bogard @Pantheos @RobertoTheOharaSurvivor @Zemmi @zzShinichi @Gol D. Roger @Van @TheAncientCenturion @Wakid @Weeman @minamoto @Sasparan @Shanal @NAMELESS @Kagura @Rosella.Fiamingo @AoFuji @Rayleigh-Sama @Adam 🍎 @Shisui_038 @JazzMazz @Hiragaro @Sentinel @Zowo @matt245 @Red Admiral @Abysmal @Luffy is the mc @Kurodiamondo @Kuro Ashi @Roronoa-sama @Worona Woro @Tai long @garciajulieen @Charlotte LinLin @Kromage911 @Guan Yu @kumae @stormylife
very interesting
In the kitchen, where he belongs
Splendid post. :cheers:
Post automatically merged:
Well, in Wano/Onigashima, Oda has been focusing on "Color of Conqueror" and the influence this power exerts on the world.
Except the kingly qualities(something that still subjective for many readers), I would like to analyze and compare the characteristics of characters with this ability within Weberian sociology.
First, I'll make a little adaptation and treat both "dominate and conquer" as synonyms(Haoshoku Haki was showed as a imposition of will on others and not necessarily the possession of material things). With that said, we can start!
Power and Domination
"Weber defined power as the chance that an individual in a social relationship can achieve his or her own will even against the resistance of others. And the use of that will in order to give specific commands can be recognized as domination."
In that sense, we can draw the following parallel:
WILL------>POWER------->DOMINATION (Natural process)
WILL------>CoC----------->Intimidation/Incapacitation/(One Piece process)
The three types of Authority
Our sociologist divides authorities(forms of exercising domination) into three different types: Traditional; Charismatic and Legal. Now, I'll explain each type and classify CoC users into referred categories.
-Traditional Authority
*Characters: Big Mom; Kaido; Chinjao; Boa Hancock; Blackbeard(?) and Xebec(?)
This is the type of authority where the traditional rights of a powerful and dominant individual or group are accepted, or at least not challenged, by subordinate individuals. These could be religious, sacred, or spiritual forms, well established and slowly changing culture, family, or clan type structures. The dominant individual could be a priest, clan leader, family head, some other patriarch, or a dominant elite might govern."Traditional authority is based on a claim by the leaders, and a belief on the part of the followers, that there is virtue in the sanctity of age-old rules and powers".
Big Mom:
She's a matriarch and Queen of Toto Land. Her sons respect and follow her will due to a bloody connection, one of the most primordial and powerful forms of relationship. As for the kingdom's subjects, they submit to Linlin through her founding and leader figure. In special cases, she can use fear to ensure her domination over the inhabitants.
Kaido:
He's the leader of Beasts Pirates. Well, if we take a look at his crew, it's easily to find a lot of commons characteristics among its members: Zoan users, similar garments and accessories like horns. Also, we know that Kaido define himself and Yamato as Onis, as a different race. With these facts, I guess it's not that hard to see BP as an artificial clan(or an attempt of it). The Yonko rules here through his strenght and possible patriarch figure.
Don Chinjao
He's the leader of Chinjao Family. In a similar way to Linlin, Chinjao is a patriarch and exerts the influence and power through his blood relatives. The importance of his family treasure and the care for Sai are great signals of that.
Boa Hancock
She's the captain of Kuja Pirates and the current empress of Amazon Lily. Her both positions are cultural/historic related altough she presents a great charisma.
(?)Blackbeard
He's the leader and Admiral of Bb Pirates. As the title itself says, the relation between BB and his titanic captains follows a military structure and linked entirely to the desire for power. There's no clearly statements and the sudden recruitment of extremely dangerous prisoners is a good indication that order in the group is maintained only through the use of force(represented in figure of the admiral).
(?)Xebec
He's the Captain of Rocks Pirates. We know almost nothing about him but he seems to had similar traits to BB.
-Charismatic Authority
*Characters: Luffy, Roger, Zoro, Shanks, Whitebeard, Kid, Rayleigh, Doflamingo, Oden, Ace and Katakuri
Weber defines charismatic authority as "resting on devotion to the exceptional sanctity, heroism or exemplary character of an individual person, and of the normative patterns or order revealed or ordained by him". That is, charisma is a quality of an individual personality that is considered extraordinary, and followers may consider this quality to be endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or exceptional powers or qualities. Whether such powers actually exist or not is irrelevant – the fact that followers believe that such powers exist is what is important.
Max also considers charisma to be a driving and creative force which surges through traditional authority and established rules. The sole basis of charismatic authority is the recognition or acceptance of the claims of the leader by the followers. While it is irrational, in that it is not calculable or systematic, it can be revolutionary, breaking traditional rule and can even challenge legal authority.
Luffy:
"It's not some sort of special power, but he has the ability to make allies of everyone he meets. And that is the most fearsome ability on the high seas..."
Mihawk's speech make clear to the readers: "Charisma is Luffy's strongest power". There's no much to explain here, SH invitations, Grand Fleet creation and now the Samurai Alliance shows how Luffy is portrayed as a great Leader, and as consequence, a Conqueror.
Zoro:
“I'm going to be the world's greatest swordsman! All I have left is my destiny! My name may be infamous...but it's gonna shake the world!!!”
Roronoa Zoro being a Conqueror isn't a surprise, but maybe you can ask me "Thuru, why a charismatic one?". Well, like I previously explained, this kind of autorithy is related to examplary/admiration, something that definitely fits our swordsman. His hard-work captives Momonosuke(as we can see during their training), back to the beggining of the story we also have Jonnhy and Yosaku, but best evidence is this cover page:
Here we can see that Santoryu, Zoro's own style, has been learned by all kids from his old Dojo. The story from a simple man, with just his swords and willpower, can inspire the whole world.
Whitebeard:
"It doesn't matter who you are born to, everyone is a child of the sea and it is wrong to resent a child for his father's sins."
Strongest Man in the World, Rival of Pirate King... WB doesn't need introductions. You're probably wondering why WB isn't in the "traditional autorithy" if his domination was direct related to his family. Well, actually, WB's family wasn't built through blood like Chinjao or BM, but it was forged with care, apprenticeship, love and some punches. His charisma was the key, and the proof is that even the Ace, another conqueror, was dominated by this man.
Whitebeard could have conquered all the seas and islands of the world, but instead of that, this man chose to conquer hearts"
Doflamingo:
"I lost my mother when I was 8...and killed my father when I was 10. Those with the title of "Executive" or above are my "family" with whom I've shared my joys and sorrows. They're the only thing I have! I won't forgive anyone that laughs at my family. Understood?"
I believe this quote is enough to proof why Donquixote Doflamingo is here. Like WB, Doffy won a family, not through his Tenryuubito status, but through his own effort and experience lived with these persons. Off course, if we analyze in his perspective of Dressrosa's King, he would fits the previous category. However, looking at the deepest part his characterization, this place belongs to him.
Shanks:
"You Can Pour Drinks On Me. You Can Throw Food At Me. You Can Even Spit On Me. I'll Just Laugh That Stuff Off. But...Good Reason Or Not...Nobody Hurts A Friend Of Mine!"
We didn't saw much from Redhair, but looking at his few scenes, it's notorious the similarities between RHP and SH dynamic, specially when we look at Shanks as Luffy's EOS objective. His character has a lot of potential, specially his connections with World Governament and maybe the Underworld. For now, I'll place him here.
Oden:
"Oden wouldn't be Oden if it wasn't boiled"
Kozuki Oden was the Daimyo of Kuri and son of the former Shogun. Using his massive strenght and intense personality, Oden conquered each one of his "Scabbards" without needing his "social status". He died protecting his friends and allies, thus becoming a heroic figure for the country of Wano.
Roger and Rayleigh
"Maybe nothing in this world happens by accident. As everything happens for a reason, our destiny slowly takes form..."
"Do you wanna turn the world upside down with me?"
Our former Pirate King duo; "Gold and Silver"; "Sun and Moon".
These both mans reached the peak of the world, achieved the One Piece and discovered the truth behind everything. But more important than that, they conquered the respect from rivals, allies and enemies, being greeted by all as legends. Roger's charisma can be noticed in the way his crew loved him, no matter how strong or powerful you are, true bonds are made through adventure.
Kid
"Compared to the 'righteous' greed of the rulers, the criminals of the world seem much more honorable."
The man portrayed as rival of Future Pirate King and one of the leaders of next generation, Eustass Kid has been showing a great will along the current arc, mainly with regard to Killer and the rest of his crew. The mutual confidence covered in the last chapters can't be achieved with a simple skill demonstration , Kid's will and leader figure are the reason why Killer can give can give his total.
-Legal or Rational Authority
*Characters: Sengoku, Akainu(?) and other admirals(?)
This is authority or legitimate domination resting on "rational grounds – resting on a belief in the legality of enacted rules and the right of those elevated to authority under such rules to issues commands.
There are various ways that legal authority could develop. Systems of convention, laws and regulation develop in many societies, and there are many different principles of legality that occur. The development of law in the West leads to establishment of a legal system, such that there is a rule of law, written legal codes, legal rights and rules, and the "professionalized administration of justice by persons who have received their legal training formally and systematically.". In the West, Weber connects these forms to the development of rationality and bureaucracy. Other legal forms in societies in other parts of the world could develop in quite a different direction, perhaps blocking the development of rationality.
Navy is the military arm of the world government and the closest thing we have to a real life structure. Characterized by a well-defined hierarchy and a rigid system of rules,the centerpiece of this puzzle turns out to be the Fleet Admiral. This position is responsible for managing the sailors, negotiating with the Gorosei, but more important: determine the ideology to be followed during the term.
However, the big difference between the legal authority and the other two is: While in the traditional and charismatic, the organization is at the service of the leader, here the leader is at service of the organization.
Different from the domination exercised by pirates, marines are subject to laws that restrict their actions at certain points. On the plus side, this allows for greater control and manipulation of all the parts that make it up.
That's it, I tried to be as objective and simple as possible, I hope you enjoyed the read. I've been an useless user in the last months so I think it's important to contribute with the community sometimes. I know I forgot to add Mihawk, but I really don't know where to place him, maybe @Den_Den_Mushi would have an idea.
If you think someone can enjoy this read, please tag them. Also, if you didn't enjoyed, feel free to criticize me :)
Except the kingly qualities(something that still subjective for many readers), I would like to analyze and compare the characteristics of characters with this ability within Weberian sociology.
First, I'll make a little adaptation and treat both "dominate and conquer" as synonyms(Haoshoku Haki was showed as a imposition of will on others and not necessarily the possession of material things). With that said, we can start!
Power and Domination
"Weber defined power as the chance that an individual in a social relationship can achieve his or her own will even against the resistance of others. And the use of that will in order to give specific commands can be recognized as domination."
In that sense, we can draw the following parallel:
WILL------>POWER------->DOMINATION (Natural process)
WILL------>CoC----------->Intimidation/Incapacitation/(One Piece process)
The three types of Authority
Our sociologist divides authorities(forms of exercising domination) into three different types: Traditional; Charismatic and Legal. Now, I'll explain each type and classify CoC users into referred categories.
-Traditional Authority
*Characters: Big Mom; Kaido; Chinjao; Boa Hancock; Blackbeard(?) and Xebec(?)
This is the type of authority where the traditional rights of a powerful and dominant individual or group are accepted, or at least not challenged, by subordinate individuals. These could be religious, sacred, or spiritual forms, well established and slowly changing culture, family, or clan type structures. The dominant individual could be a priest, clan leader, family head, some other patriarch, or a dominant elite might govern."Traditional authority is based on a claim by the leaders, and a belief on the part of the followers, that there is virtue in the sanctity of age-old rules and powers".
Big Mom:
She's a matriarch and Queen of Toto Land. Her sons respect and follow her will due to a bloody connection, one of the most primordial and powerful forms of relationship. As for the kingdom's subjects, they submit to Linlin through her founding and leader figure. In special cases, she can use fear to ensure her domination over the inhabitants.
Kaido:
He's the leader of Beasts Pirates. Well, if we take a look at his crew, it's easily to find a lot of commons characteristics among its members: Zoan users, similar garments and accessories like horns. Also, we know that Kaido define himself and Yamato as Onis, as a different race. With these facts, I guess it's not that hard to see BP as an artificial clan(or an attempt of it). The Yonko rules here through his strenght and possible patriarch figure.
Don Chinjao
He's the leader of Chinjao Family. In a similar way to Linlin, Chinjao is a patriarch and exerts the influence and power through his blood relatives. The importance of his family treasure and the care for Sai are great signals of that.
Boa Hancock
She's the captain of Kuja Pirates and the current empress of Amazon Lily. Her both positions are cultural/historic related altough she presents a great charisma.
(?)Blackbeard
He's the leader and Admiral of Bb Pirates. As the title itself says, the relation between BB and his titanic captains follows a military structure and linked entirely to the desire for power. There's no clearly statements and the sudden recruitment of extremely dangerous prisoners is a good indication that order in the group is maintained only through the use of force(represented in figure of the admiral).
(?)Xebec
He's the Captain of Rocks Pirates. We know almost nothing about him but he seems to had similar traits to BB.
-Charismatic Authority
*Characters: Luffy, Roger, Zoro, Shanks, Whitebeard, Kid, Rayleigh, Doflamingo, Oden, Ace and Katakuri
Weber defines charismatic authority as "resting on devotion to the exceptional sanctity, heroism or exemplary character of an individual person, and of the normative patterns or order revealed or ordained by him". That is, charisma is a quality of an individual personality that is considered extraordinary, and followers may consider this quality to be endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or exceptional powers or qualities. Whether such powers actually exist or not is irrelevant – the fact that followers believe that such powers exist is what is important.
Max also considers charisma to be a driving and creative force which surges through traditional authority and established rules. The sole basis of charismatic authority is the recognition or acceptance of the claims of the leader by the followers. While it is irrational, in that it is not calculable or systematic, it can be revolutionary, breaking traditional rule and can even challenge legal authority.
Luffy:
"It's not some sort of special power, but he has the ability to make allies of everyone he meets. And that is the most fearsome ability on the high seas..."
Mihawk's speech make clear to the readers: "Charisma is Luffy's strongest power". There's no much to explain here, SH invitations, Grand Fleet creation and now the Samurai Alliance shows how Luffy is portrayed as a great Leader, and as consequence, a Conqueror.
Zoro:
“I'm going to be the world's greatest swordsman! All I have left is my destiny! My name may be infamous...but it's gonna shake the world!!!”
Roronoa Zoro being a Conqueror isn't a surprise, but maybe you can ask me "Thuru, why a charismatic one?". Well, like I previously explained, this kind of autorithy is related to examplary/admiration, something that definitely fits our swordsman. His hard-work captives Momonosuke(as we can see during their training), back to the beggining of the story we also have Jonnhy and Yosaku, but best evidence is this cover page:
Whitebeard:
"It doesn't matter who you are born to, everyone is a child of the sea and it is wrong to resent a child for his father's sins."
Strongest Man in the World, Rival of Pirate King... WB doesn't need introductions. You're probably wondering why WB isn't in the "traditional autorithy" if his domination was direct related to his family. Well, actually, WB's family wasn't built through blood like Chinjao or BM, but it was forged with care, apprenticeship, love and some punches. His charisma was the key, and the proof is that even the Ace, another conqueror, was dominated by this man.
Whitebeard could have conquered all the seas and islands of the world, but instead of that, this man chose to conquer hearts"
Doflamingo:
"I lost my mother when I was 8...and killed my father when I was 10. Those with the title of "Executive" or above are my "family" with whom I've shared my joys and sorrows. They're the only thing I have! I won't forgive anyone that laughs at my family. Understood?"
I believe this quote is enough to proof why Donquixote Doflamingo is here. Like WB, Doffy won a family, not through his Tenryuubito status, but through his own effort and experience lived with these persons. Off course, if we analyze in his perspective of Dressrosa's King, he would fits the previous category. However, looking at the deepest part his characterization, this place belongs to him.
Shanks:
"You Can Pour Drinks On Me. You Can Throw Food At Me. You Can Even Spit On Me. I'll Just Laugh That Stuff Off. But...Good Reason Or Not...Nobody Hurts A Friend Of Mine!"
We didn't saw much from Redhair, but looking at his few scenes, it's notorious the similarities between RHP and SH dynamic, specially when we look at Shanks as Luffy's EOS objective. His character has a lot of potential, specially his connections with World Governament and maybe the Underworld. For now, I'll place him here.
Oden:
"Oden wouldn't be Oden if it wasn't boiled"
Kozuki Oden was the Daimyo of Kuri and son of the former Shogun. Using his massive strenght and intense personality, Oden conquered each one of his "Scabbards" without needing his "social status". He died protecting his friends and allies, thus becoming a heroic figure for the country of Wano.
Roger and Rayleigh
"Maybe nothing in this world happens by accident. As everything happens for a reason, our destiny slowly takes form..."
"Do you wanna turn the world upside down with me?"
Our former Pirate King duo; "Gold and Silver"; "Sun and Moon".
These both mans reached the peak of the world, achieved the One Piece and discovered the truth behind everything. But more important than that, they conquered the respect from rivals, allies and enemies, being greeted by all as legends. Roger's charisma can be noticed in the way his crew loved him, no matter how strong or powerful you are, true bonds are made through adventure.
Kid
"Compared to the 'righteous' greed of the rulers, the criminals of the world seem much more honorable."
The man portrayed as rival of Future Pirate King and one of the leaders of next generation, Eustass Kid has been showing a great will along the current arc, mainly with regard to Killer and the rest of his crew. The mutual confidence covered in the last chapters can't be achieved with a simple skill demonstration , Kid's will and leader figure are the reason why Killer can give can give his total.
-Legal or Rational Authority
*Characters: Sengoku, Akainu(?) and other admirals(?)
This is authority or legitimate domination resting on "rational grounds – resting on a belief in the legality of enacted rules and the right of those elevated to authority under such rules to issues commands.
There are various ways that legal authority could develop. Systems of convention, laws and regulation develop in many societies, and there are many different principles of legality that occur. The development of law in the West leads to establishment of a legal system, such that there is a rule of law, written legal codes, legal rights and rules, and the "professionalized administration of justice by persons who have received their legal training formally and systematically.". In the West, Weber connects these forms to the development of rationality and bureaucracy. Other legal forms in societies in other parts of the world could develop in quite a different direction, perhaps blocking the development of rationality.
Navy is the military arm of the world government and the closest thing we have to a real life structure. Characterized by a well-defined hierarchy and a rigid system of rules,the centerpiece of this puzzle turns out to be the Fleet Admiral. This position is responsible for managing the sailors, negotiating with the Gorosei, but more important: determine the ideology to be followed during the term.
However, the big difference between the legal authority and the other two is: While in the traditional and charismatic, the organization is at the service of the leader, here the leader is at service of the organization.
Different from the domination exercised by pirates, marines are subject to laws that restrict their actions at certain points. On the plus side, this allows for greater control and manipulation of all the parts that make it up.
That's it, I tried to be as objective and simple as possible, I hope you enjoyed the read. I've been an useless user in the last months so I think it's important to contribute with the community sometimes. I know I forgot to add Mihawk, but I really don't know where to place him, maybe @Den_Den_Mushi would have an idea.
If you think someone can enjoy this read, please tag them. Also, if you didn't enjoyed, feel free to criticize me :)
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@Jew D. Boy
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Thanks for the tag. :cheers:
I really enjoyed the analysis. But i disagree with other users i think Mihawk falls Charismatic category. He may be WSS but i dont think he had WSS title when he got CoC.
Also Hancock aint Traditional Authority she May be Queen but everyone talks about her charisma. I wish you put her in Charismatic category like you did with Katakuri.
I really enjoyed the analysis. But i disagree with other users i think Mihawk falls Charismatic category. He may be WSS but i dont think he had WSS title when he got CoC.
Also Hancock aint Traditional Authority she May be Queen but everyone talks about her charisma. I wish you put her in Charismatic category like you did with Katakuri.
Great thread, Thuru!
They work really well divided this way, but perhaps I have the biggest issue with the traditional authority. Most of them have it built up (with kids, followers etc.), but some of them did not start that way.
D'you reckon they go from charismatic to traditional at some point, by natural progress?
They work really well divided this way, but perhaps I have the biggest issue with the traditional authority. Most of them have it built up (with kids, followers etc.), but some of them did not start that way.
D'you reckon they go from charismatic to traditional at some point, by natural progress?
Thanks Nat
Oh you, you're totally right, Doffy is a perfect example: he built his family through charisma, however he ruled Dressrosa through Traditional Authority. Shanks has potential for this too(his ties with WG and Underworld).
If we actually look to history, most of Charismatic Leaders were turned into Tyrants at the expense of excessive power.
However, as I said in a previous post, Oda's write have tons of manichaeism so I doubt he wants to portrayal his good guys turning into "bad" rulers
Oh you, you're totally right, Doffy is a perfect example: he built his family through charisma, however he ruled Dressrosa through Traditional Authority. Shanks has potential for this too(his ties with WG and Underworld).
If we actually look to history, most of Charismatic Leaders were turned into Tyrants at the expense of excessive power.
However, as I said in a previous post, Oda's write have tons of manichaeism so I doubt he wants to portrayal his good guys turning into "bad" rulers
