Break Week One Piece - Chapter 970: Oden vs Kaido [BREAK WEEK]
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I really don't get you here, DenDen.
We still don't know what the deal between Oden and Orochi was. Oda is purposely not telling it right now.
He isn't an idiot. It's perfectly clear that Oda knows how many readers think about the situation and Oden.
Until we know anything about this deal, we can' t make any conclusion about the writing.
With a good reveal/twist I don't see any problem in this flashback at all and I'm one of the first who calls out shaky writing (see WCI part 2).
We still don't know what the deal between Oden and Orochi was. Oda is purposely not telling it right now.
He isn't an idiot. It's perfectly clear that Oda knows how many readers think about the situation and Oden.
Until we know anything about this deal, we can' t make any conclusion about the writing.
With a good reveal/twist I don't see any problem in this flashback at all and I'm one of the first who calls out shaky writing (see WCI part 2).
People often say "If it's one-on-one, Kaido will win." On land, sea, and air... among all living things, he is a pirate who is known as the "strongest creature"!!!
What is Oda doing? Why is he showing us Kaido jobbing right before Onigashima when he's supposed to be building hype?
What is Oda doing? Why is he showing us Kaido jobbing right before Onigashima when he's supposed to be building hype?
Oda is putting things into perspective as usual
Well, it's a matter of taste then. Not liking it is perfectly OK, it's not objective criticism though.
I for one don't really care about fights in OP (outside of the end battles) and think that Oden's backstory is in fact tragic.
AoT and KnY have their own style.
OP has its own style and is still doing absolutely outstanding for a 20+ year old manga.
I for one don't really care about fights in OP (outside of the end battles) and think that Oden's backstory is in fact tragic.
AoT and KnY have their own style.
OP has its own style and is still doing absolutely outstanding for a 20+ year old manga.
Really enjoyed this chapter! and the highlights for the chapter for me were:
1.) Shinobu
Young Shinobu was a babe:love: and was probably the hottest chick in Wano in her hey day so it's pretty mind boggling that Oda made her into the plump old lady she is now, as it's not like she was evil or anything. Plus current Shinobu should still be under 50, which isn't that old by op standards. So I'm thinking that maybe Shinobu used her powers on herself for some reason. Raizou mentioned that she chose a difficult path, which I'm sure partly has to do with the fact that she sided with Oden, but it could be that any ninja who desert the Oniwaban is haunted down and killed, so Shinobu could've used her fruit to age her self to hide her identity:unsure:. Plus Shinobu didn't seem incompetent at all in the flashback. Heck she had to be pretty strong to have been able to fight along the Scabbards and Oden in that battle on Ringo given they were gravely outnumbered by Kaidou's forces so maybe the whole being incompetent thing atm, is just Shinobu playing possum. Also, @Albino 👑 brought it up in the spoiler thread, but the young ninja looking chick in the Mimawarigumi looks just like Shinobu did as child so she could potentially be Shinobu's disciple or a Shinobu admirer of sorts ^^.
2.) Oden
Gotta say Oden is a lot stronger than I gave him credit for. The man is a beast and tbf, the signs were there, I just didn't wanna jump the gun but! this chapter is enough for me to properly gauge were he ranks power scaling wise, which for me is amongst the very strongest top tiers in the verse. I honestly think he'd have beaten Kaidou in fair 1 v 1. The man tanked a friggin boro's breath attack and then proceeded to give Kaidou the first and only wound he's ever gotten with a casual Nitoryuu attack and as if Kaidou was beneath him, he then told Kaidou to never set foot on wano again and was about to deal the final blow before the beast pirates pulled that underhanded trick. One thing about Oden is that he's very honest about strong opponents he fights against, if an opponent is beyond his capabilities, he acknowledges it (.e.g. Roger & WB) and nothing about Oden's demeanor this chapter indicated that Kaidou was superior to him but the things Kaidou said and did this chapter for me indicate that he was inferior to Oden (e.g. acknowledging Oden's strength saying he's strong like Roger & WB but naive, and then having to use a phony hostage to get an advantage over Oden). I don't know if the Kaidou that fought Oden in this flashback is as strong as the current one, but Oden was definitely stronger than Kaidou at the time imo.
With regards to Oden's decision to not attack wano 5 years ago, like I suspected last week, he gave in to Kaidou and Orochi as to not endanger the lives of the wano citizens. I already spoke in depth as to how I think Oden feels and why he choose to do what he did, sow I won't be going into too much detail on that in this post. This chapter defo confirms for me personally, that the two random townsfolk that were killed in the capital by arrows last chapter, were killed as a way to threaten Oden and it's possible that Kaidou threatened to use biochemical warfare against Oden & Wano in the case that Oden decided to go against them at the time. Kaidou and Orochi probably promised Oden some other things which Oden clung unto probably because he felt he didn't have a choice. I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Oden's decision not to attack Kaidou 5 years ago was stupid. Yes if he decided to fight Kaidou & Orochi at the time, chances are that he would've won but the casualties from the war would have been immense. Yes the wano folk are suffering and working like slaves in the mines but the majority of them are still alive coz of Oden's decision and the fact that they are still alive means that they can still be saved. Also, I wonder if Oden's decision was also influenced by a prophecy Toki told him. Maybe something like "someone would appear to save and open Wano's borders 20 years from now". So Oden decided to believe in the prophecy.
3.) Moria!
Guess the thing about Moria being Kaidou's rival was legit. In this chapter, Kaidou states that they were short on man power which I think was clearly as a result of his fight against Moria, which means the Gecko pirates were strong enough to significantly weaken the beast pirates even though they ultimately got decimated. To think someone as strong as Moria was, was broken to the point where he lost against pre-ts Luffy ^^"
4.) The Traitor
Not really sure who the traitor is but we'd probably find out when we return back to the current timeline with Luffy and co. Have no clue who it is tho, but it's defo not Shinobu and defo not Law as well...lolz given the traitor existed even 20 years ago. I do think it'd be one of the retainers though. Could it be Kiku. He said he was okay with Izo staying with the WB pirates if he's happy there, but y'all have to remember that Izo was Kiku's only family till he met Oden and Oden's desire to leave wano, was ultimately what separated the two brothers & why Izo joined the WB pirates, so Kiku might be holding a grudge against Oden for it. Then there's Denjiro, but Denjiro couldn't have spilled the beans about Raizou being on Zou to Kaidou as he wouldn't have been aware that the scabbards who time travelled had returned. I'm leaning towards Kiku being the traitor but interested in finding out who it is nevertheless.
Next chapter I think would probably be the last chapter of the flashback, and I expect it to be very emotional and have a lot of Oden greatness, so I'm looking forward to it ^^
1.) Shinobu
Young Shinobu was a babe:love: and was probably the hottest chick in Wano in her hey day so it's pretty mind boggling that Oda made her into the plump old lady she is now, as it's not like she was evil or anything. Plus current Shinobu should still be under 50, which isn't that old by op standards. So I'm thinking that maybe Shinobu used her powers on herself for some reason. Raizou mentioned that she chose a difficult path, which I'm sure partly has to do with the fact that she sided with Oden, but it could be that any ninja who desert the Oniwaban is haunted down and killed, so Shinobu could've used her fruit to age her self to hide her identity:unsure:. Plus Shinobu didn't seem incompetent at all in the flashback. Heck she had to be pretty strong to have been able to fight along the Scabbards and Oden in that battle on Ringo given they were gravely outnumbered by Kaidou's forces so maybe the whole being incompetent thing atm, is just Shinobu playing possum. Also, @Albino 👑 brought it up in the spoiler thread, but the young ninja looking chick in the Mimawarigumi looks just like Shinobu did as child so she could potentially be Shinobu's disciple or a Shinobu admirer of sorts ^^.
2.) Oden
Gotta say Oden is a lot stronger than I gave him credit for. The man is a beast and tbf, the signs were there, I just didn't wanna jump the gun but! this chapter is enough for me to properly gauge were he ranks power scaling wise, which for me is amongst the very strongest top tiers in the verse. I honestly think he'd have beaten Kaidou in fair 1 v 1. The man tanked a friggin boro's breath attack and then proceeded to give Kaidou the first and only wound he's ever gotten with a casual Nitoryuu attack and as if Kaidou was beneath him, he then told Kaidou to never set foot on wano again and was about to deal the final blow before the beast pirates pulled that underhanded trick. One thing about Oden is that he's very honest about strong opponents he fights against, if an opponent is beyond his capabilities, he acknowledges it (.e.g. Roger & WB) and nothing about Oden's demeanor this chapter indicated that Kaidou was superior to him but the things Kaidou said and did this chapter for me indicate that he was inferior to Oden (e.g. acknowledging Oden's strength saying he's strong like Roger & WB but naive, and then having to use a phony hostage to get an advantage over Oden). I don't know if the Kaidou that fought Oden in this flashback is as strong as the current one, but Oden was definitely stronger than Kaidou at the time imo.
With regards to Oden's decision to not attack wano 5 years ago, like I suspected last week, he gave in to Kaidou and Orochi as to not endanger the lives of the wano citizens. I already spoke in depth as to how I think Oden feels and why he choose to do what he did, sow I won't be going into too much detail on that in this post. This chapter defo confirms for me personally, that the two random townsfolk that were killed in the capital by arrows last chapter, were killed as a way to threaten Oden and it's possible that Kaidou threatened to use biochemical warfare against Oden & Wano in the case that Oden decided to go against them at the time. Kaidou and Orochi probably promised Oden some other things which Oden clung unto probably because he felt he didn't have a choice. I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Oden's decision not to attack Kaidou 5 years ago was stupid. Yes if he decided to fight Kaidou & Orochi at the time, chances are that he would've won but the casualties from the war would have been immense. Yes the wano folk are suffering and working like slaves in the mines but the majority of them are still alive coz of Oden's decision and the fact that they are still alive means that they can still be saved. Also, I wonder if Oden's decision was also influenced by a prophecy Toki told him. Maybe something like "someone would appear to save and open Wano's borders 20 years from now". So Oden decided to believe in the prophecy.
3.) Moria!
Guess the thing about Moria being Kaidou's rival was legit. In this chapter, Kaidou states that they were short on man power which I think was clearly as a result of his fight against Moria, which means the Gecko pirates were strong enough to significantly weaken the beast pirates even though they ultimately got decimated. To think someone as strong as Moria was, was broken to the point where he lost against pre-ts Luffy ^^"
4.) The Traitor
Not really sure who the traitor is but we'd probably find out when we return back to the current timeline with Luffy and co. Have no clue who it is tho, but it's defo not Shinobu and defo not Law as well...lolz given the traitor existed even 20 years ago. I do think it'd be one of the retainers though. Could it be Kiku. He said he was okay with Izo staying with the WB pirates if he's happy there, but y'all have to remember that Izo was Kiku's only family till he met Oden and Oden's desire to leave wano, was ultimately what separated the two brothers & why Izo joined the WB pirates, so Kiku might be holding a grudge against Oden for it. Then there's Denjiro, but Denjiro couldn't have spilled the beans about Raizou being on Zou to Kaidou as he wouldn't have been aware that the scabbards who time travelled had returned. I'm leaning towards Kiku being the traitor but interested in finding out who it is nevertheless.
Next chapter I think would probably be the last chapter of the flashback, and I expect it to be very emotional and have a lot of Oden greatness, so I'm looking forward to it ^^
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People like always making stupid assumptions based on spoilers...
Oden was Fighting Full Zoan Kaidou the whole time and the only impressive thing was that he managed to hurt him. That's it. If Kaidou would stay in his Full Zoan Form, Oden probably would have won the fight. But Full Zoan Forms are the least suitable forms to fight humans. Kaidou can't defend himself in his Full Zoan Form, because his Hands/legs are way to short for his Body, he can't use them to block any attacks. His Body is completely exposed to attacks. Also his huge size makes him slower and it's getting harder to maneuver, dodging attacks etc.
Luffy managed to do the same thing as Oden, he was able to dodge Full Zoan Form Kaidou in his base Form and could lend hits with Gear 3 - the only difference is that Oden managed to hurt him while Luffy couldn't. But after Kaidou went back to his Human form, boom, the fight was over in an instant.
If Oden would have fought Human Form Kaidou, it would be wayyyy harder for him to even lend a hit on him - because faster, more suitable form for Fighting Humans, can better defend himself, can use his club etc.
Well, Kaidou one shotet Oden in his Human Form.
And don't Forget that Kaidou has also a Hybrid Form.
People are trying to down Play Kaidou for no reason...
Oden was Fighting Full Zoan Kaidou the whole time and the only impressive thing was that he managed to hurt him. That's it. If Kaidou would stay in his Full Zoan Form, Oden probably would have won the fight. But Full Zoan Forms are the least suitable forms to fight humans. Kaidou can't defend himself in his Full Zoan Form, because his Hands/legs are way to short for his Body, he can't use them to block any attacks. His Body is completely exposed to attacks. Also his huge size makes him slower and it's getting harder to maneuver, dodging attacks etc.
Luffy managed to do the same thing as Oden, he was able to dodge Full Zoan Form Kaidou in his base Form and could lend hits with Gear 3 - the only difference is that Oden managed to hurt him while Luffy couldn't. But after Kaidou went back to his Human form, boom, the fight was over in an instant.
If Oden would have fought Human Form Kaidou, it would be wayyyy harder for him to even lend a hit on him - because faster, more suitable form for Fighting Humans, can better defend himself, can use his club etc.
Well, Kaidou one shotet Oden in his Human Form.
And don't Forget that Kaidou has also a Hybrid Form.
People are trying to down Play Kaidou for no reason...
Kaido turns out to be a scheming coward who didn’t just use force to conquer his territory, but deceit as well. Nothing new for the world of pirates, Croc and Doffy did the same, but it clearly places him a rung below the true greats, WB and Roger, and he knows it. I feel a little sorry for his stans. His hype has taken a major L, though I know you guys will keep fighting for him.
Oden seemed to have improved since past appearances. He’s looking impressive. The reader being frustrated over him sitting idle for 5 years is probably deliberate on Oda’s part. We’re supposed to feel like the citizens of Wano did.
Oden seemed to have improved since past appearances. He’s looking impressive. The reader being frustrated over him sitting idle for 5 years is probably deliberate on Oda’s part. We’re supposed to feel like the citizens of Wano did.
Oden wasn't worth a named attack 
I think Aku... I mean Kaido would still win, even without the deception, although he's gonna end up even more bloody than he already is
Maybe with tons of scars or lost of limbs or horns
Also, idk if this is a coincidence or Oda actually can fucking predicted it
Queen overall look, is like some old school Chinese looking character, his epithet is the plague and he attack using virus called mummy which basically like a form of zombie
Idk why Oda didn't show us Jack and the Numbers thou
Anyway,
We can assume some things from this short chapter
- Kaido saying things as if he knew what kind of pirates Roger are, I guess they did fought once and he lost
- Gecko pirates is actually strong back then, strong enough for Beast Pirates to admit that they're at a disadvantages if the Samurai's were to attack them because they lost a lot of people, the hell happened to you Moria
- Back then Kaido troops are filled only with Waiters, thou they act more like pleasures
- the Kurozumi granny actually joins the battle, so that could means that the 2 Kurozumi are member of the beast pirate
- looks like Queen swords are coated with some poison, or maybe another of his virus fits his epithet as the plague
- there's indeed a traitor amongst Oden's men, and Kaido actually brought it up, damn
I don't like how we get soo little battle panes and pages for Oden vs Kaido, but I can see that Oda didn't want to reveal to much in the flashback
Maybe with tons of scars or lost of limbs or horns
Also, idk if this is a coincidence or Oda actually can fucking predicted it
Queen overall look, is like some old school Chinese looking character, his epithet is the plague and he attack using virus called mummy which basically like a form of zombie
Idk why Oda didn't show us Jack and the Numbers thou
Anyway,
We can assume some things from this short chapter
- Kaido saying things as if he knew what kind of pirates Roger are, I guess they did fought once and he lost
- Gecko pirates is actually strong back then, strong enough for Beast Pirates to admit that they're at a disadvantages if the Samurai's were to attack them because they lost a lot of people, the hell happened to you Moria
- Back then Kaido troops are filled only with Waiters, thou they act more like pleasures
- the Kurozumi granny actually joins the battle, so that could means that the 2 Kurozumi are member of the beast pirate
- looks like Queen swords are coated with some poison, or maybe another of his virus fits his epithet as the plague
- there's indeed a traitor amongst Oden's men, and Kaido actually brought it up, damn
I don't like how we get soo little battle panes and pages for Oden vs Kaido, but I can see that Oda didn't want to reveal to much in the flashback
J
major L coz Young Kaido fooled Oden? He is actually shown to not just be a muscle head but can actually be strategic.
WB never bad to to conquer a country like Wano. WB himself had trouble dealing with Young Oden 3p years ago.
Roger didn't have territories lol
Kaido took over Wano via strength and tactics
Wano arguably the second strongest nation.
It won't change much
If you think Kaido took major L for 20 years ago
Then Orochi basically made WG his chickens by using Kaido name to make them listen.
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Kaido had fought Roger somewhere down the line
For him to know what type of pirate Roger is.
I'm with @Den_Den_Mushi this chapter is plain bad storytelling. I don't feel sorry for Oden even one iota
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