Current Events Rate The Oden Flashback

[Homelander]

Well the problem that I still had with this is that it's not a well developed flaw. It's like we get introduced to Oden when he already has this flaw and we never get a reason for why he specifically like this to begin with. He just is.

An example of someone having a flaw that's developed is Zoro's impatience to beat Mihawk in baratie. He nearly gets himself killed in this situation because he can't wait to actually get strong enough to beat Mihawk. This is a properly developed flaw since we see Zoro has experienced an abrupt loss in his dream before when he vowed to meet Kuina at the top and they would challenge each other for WSS title but then she die a out of nowhere forcing Zoro to revaluate his dream. Zoro then can't wait any longer when Mihawk appears before him since some random shit could happen again out of nowhere the disrupts his dream again like with Kuina dying.

That's a flaw with an origin and the best part of such flaws that are well developed is that they can be fixed since we know their origin and Zoro did overcome his impatience and even when he met Mihawk dying the time skip he didn't run to challenge him again.

I get it that Oden isnt supposed to grow out of this flaw and in fact he dies because of it and thats the supposed tragedy but it still would have been much better if we did get at least a development in that regard. And this applies to alot of his other traits and motivations. They are actually not that we'll developed. This sort of causes Oden to feel like a robot or something. He's like characterised as a chad of course but we don't know how he got there so it feels like he was just programmed like a Robot to be on chad mode and that's all we need to know.

And don't get me wrong, being overly developed isn't a necessity to a good character, for example Big mom's hunger pangs are just a thing that she has with no explanation and yet Big mom is a very good character nonetheless. What's different here is that big mom has OTHER traits and motivations that DO get developed and even build off her hunger pangs to form very interesting situations and she ends up a good character because of it. While Oden like I said is almost entirely robotic with barely anything about him being developed and so there's so little to anchor on to.

Shit I'm rambling, maybe I'll just make a thread of this or something.

He is a flashback character. Well i do agree there should have been more panels but i think chapters were dragging. We just needed synopsis of odens life i think oda did in very tight frame.

He knew fans will cause a problem with lack of fighting panels of scabbard but he saved the time and giving more hype to them. We havent really seen any of them go all out.

Douji, Denjiro, kawamatsu and kinemon are heavy hitters.

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

2/10.
I really did think I was going to like Oden and this flashback, but as time went on and before we even met Oden, I was increasingly put off by the hype and praise Oda kept shoving in our faces. And it got even worse when we actually met Oden, but even putting aside that, imo he’s not that interesting a character nor has he done anything we haven’t seen before from other flashback characters. The other Wano characters were also extremely weak, apart from Inu and Neko ofc, especially Toki/Snot Sr. It was nice to see Roger and Whitebeard, but I think what held them back in this flashback was 1.) Oda shoved Oden into what should have been their flashback, and 2.) imo it felt like the focus on Roger’s journey was incredibly brief. IIRC, one chapter Oden joined Roger, then bam, they’re at Raftel. Offpaneling stuff like Roger vs Whitebeard doesn’t help.

Tough luck not everyone should like him though.

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

This thread spiced up a bit

Kingslayer vs topi a never seen before battle

Time to get my popcorn

The guy whines so much its funny he s just here to hate the manga. Almost every chapter he is on top of the list with most whinning list. Its very annoying to read some of his comment because he never comes to the point.

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

In all honesty: Why are you still reading OP?

That's not meant to sound offensive or anything, just honestly interested. It has been clear that you're on a personal little warpath with the series since at least WCI or your last days at OJ.

Nothing wrong with that, I get that sometimes we just don't like things as much as we liked them before.
I just don't get why you don't drop the series then.
Instead of coming back week after week to voice your displeasure, you could do things you actually like.

Most of us got that stretch, where we weren't really happy with how things went down in OP, but it was that - a stretch.
To continue reading for multiple years, when all you really feel about it is bitterness is just confusing imho. Especially since nowadays a lot of your "arguments" really only reflect pure hatred on the series.
It really doesn't seem healthy to me and dropping it outright might be the best for you.

I feel some of the fanbase want catering on plate . We are reading his hardwork for free and they lack genuine appreciation . I think some of them are genuinly working in attempt to create toxic in fandom with some of them decided to go spite hate.

Clearly they forget we had fans complaining during big moms wedding cake saga andlaws flashback.

Some of them truly lack appreciation of the manga . In the end its all about trust in oda himself he had delivered it almost all the time. Its all about trust if people think he cant deliver then comes an issie do you really like this manga at all ?

Eitherway with opinion on top i am happy its just majority of fandom have truly liked the flashback only few of them who are propogating and tried to spread to the community failed. I would say let them do it wano arc has delievered one of the best stpryline and story is not done yet and people expect high standards are always welcome oda is doing it for two decades.

 

[OmegaPsyche]

7, its faults are that I feel I haven't learned anything from reading it & its length.

I have no problem with character portrayal though, it fleshed out Orochi, Kaido, Wano country & old legends.

 

[JerAx]

7 I never liked flashbacks in op.
8 Ill give to senor pink and calgara. Oden could be 8 if it ties amazingly at the end of wano.

Fyi I gave hiruluk law robin also 7. Nothing really amazing storytelling wise in those tbh,

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

Also some of your nitpick are stupid af. If this forum is what it is when we had law's or robin's flashabck I would see some similar complain

 

[Topi Jerami]

I thought it was a discussion thread but turns out it's just Jerami's Troll thread.

How is this a troll thread?
I was just starting the discussion, it flowed nicely (look at first page) until a user suddenly started the first shot saying I lack patience, reading comprehension blablabla

Now since I have free time again, let me explain bit by bit about my points:
(+)
1. Oden finally dead
Yep, good riddance to this shitty character (he is fictional character anyway so I don't care if this sounds harsh). Also good riddance to "is Oden still alive?" theory which is dumb since the beginning.
Orochi: Oden died right in front of my eyes.
Oden boys: B-but what if Oden still alive and the 1 got boiled was the old hag (lol)

2. Flashback is finally over
Self explanatory. Hoorray the boring Oden Piece finally came to an end and we return to the current storyline. Agreed with dizzy here, I started the flashback liking most of the scabbards (Neko, Kawamatsu, Ashura, Okiku) only to somehow like them less after the flashback ends.

3. Some younger scabbards' design are really nice (Nekomamushi, Kawamatsu, and Okiku)
I'm talking about these panels

Spoiler: Nekomamushi and Kawamatsu

Spoiler: Okiku and Nekomamushi

right middle panel, child Okiku playing with Nekomamushi

4. Mystery of "who was Whitebeard's right hand man" got answered, it was Oden during his short joining to Whitebeard Pirates and Marco was still apprentice
Self explanatory.

5. No Lulffy for 13 chapters
Self explanatory.

(-)
1. Kinemon said Kaido wanted information about his journey with Roger -> result: Oda forgets the whole scene

Spoiler

But nvm, forget this panel and let's focus on Oden being a naive dumbass instead!!

2. Toki, the survivor from Void Century was useless, but what's to expect from One Piece about its female characters
Self explanatory.
Sure she may speak later in future flashback either Toki Piece or Hiyori Piece. But topic in this thread: Oden Piece.
So Toki being Miss Background Character in Oden Piece stays true.

3. Oden became dumb and believed Kaido and Orochi would just leave Wano like that after 5 years
Now don't sugarcoat it with "muh muh will be explained later muh muh Oda will have a mindblown plot twist about the motive, patience!!1" @Kingslayer style
Reality: motive has been revealed. It's a shitty motive. Which is at least fitting for this whole shitty flashback.

4. Scabbards got sidelined so much (in Oden vs Kaido chapter)
Once again, topic is Oden Piece, not about future or whatever.
In this flashback, during whole Kaido and Beasts vs Oden and scabbards, the scabbards got sidelined so much. No panel of them showing off their abilities, Kinemon cutting fire, Raizo being ninja, etc (which is already known by now, so no need to sAvE iT fOr LaTeR). Suddenly, they got defeated and captured. Only bit shown was Ashura was stabbed in the back by unknown assailant (if it turns out as the work of Beast Pirates and not the traitor, why hide it btw? It can hype the said Beast Pirates easily, to be able to stab the strongest scabbard) and Raizo's face bleeding.

5. Not enough focus on Calamities, and 8 y.o. Jack didn't appear at all
Similar to point above about Scabbards, the Calamities also got no focus. Why the hell King and Queen shown in silhouettes, while we already know their appearance currently? On lesser note, why also they never appeared during the whole Oden's boiling execution?
(on positive note, I like that King did appear during the panel with prime Gecko Moria)

6. Oden and retainers vs Kaido and Beasts felt very rushed
Rushed. Imo the war should have been made into 2 chapters. With more focus to Calamities and Scabbards, and intense moment between Oden vs Kaido. This is popular opinion I think, and maybe some people can explain this point clearer than me.

7. No hint about traitor at all
Self explanatory. Well this point is indeed a personal expectation.


B-but troll thread but but Ndule!!

 

[JerAx]

How is this a troll thread?
I was just starting the discussion, it flowed nicely (look at first page) until a user suddenly started the first shot saying I lack patience, reading comprehension blablabla

Now since I have free time again, let me explain bit by bit about my points:
(+)
1. Oden finally dead
Yep, good riddance to this shitty character (he is fictional character anyway so I don't care if this sounds harsh). Also good riddance to "is Oden still alive?" theory which is dumb since the beginning.
Orochi: Oden died right in front of my eyes.
Oden boys: B-but what if Oden still alive and the 1 got boiled was the old hag (lol)

2. Flashback is finally over
Self explanatory. Hoorray the boring Oden Piece finally came to an end and we return to the current storyline. Agreed with dizzy here, I started the flashback liking most of the scabbards (Neko, Kawamatsu, Ashura, Okiku) only to somehow like them less after the flashback ends.

3. Some younger scabbards' design are really nice (Nekomamushi, Kawamatsu, and Okiku)
I'm talking about these panels

Spoiler: Nekomamushi and Kawamatsu

Spoiler: Okiku and Nekomamushi

right middle panel, child Okiku playing with Nekomamushi

4. Mystery of "who was Whitebeard's right hand man" got answered, it was Oden during his short joining to Whitebeard Pirates and Marco was still apprentice
Self explanatory.

5. No Lulffy for 13 chapters
Self explanatory.

(-)
1. Kinemon said Kaido wanted information about his journey with Roger -> result: Oda forgets the whole scene

Spoiler

But nvm, forget this panel and let's focus on Oden being a naive dumbass instead!!

2. Toki, the survivor from Void Century was useless, but what's to expect from One Piece about its female characters
Self explanatory.
Sure she may speak later in future flashback either Toki Piece or Hiyori Piece. But topic in this thread: Oden Piece.
So Toki being Miss Background Character in Oden Piece stays true.

3. Oden became dumb and believed Kaido and Orochi would just leave Wano like that after 5 years
Now don't sugarcoat it with "muh muh will be explained later muh muh Oda will have a mindblown plot twist about the motive, patience!!1" @Kingslayer style
Reality: motive has been revealed. It's a shitty motive. Which is at least fitting for this whole shitty flashback.

4. Scabbards got sidelined so much (in Oden vs Kaido chapter)
Once again, topic is Oden Piece, not about future or whatever.
In this flashback, during whole Kaido and Beasts vs Oden and scabbards, the scabbards got sidelined so much. No panel of them showing off their abilities, Kinemon cutting fire, Raizo being ninja, etc (which is already known by now, so no need to sAvE iT fOr LaTeR). Suddenly, they got defeated and captured. Only bit shown was Ashura was stabbed in the back by unknown assailant (if it turns out as the work of Beast Pirates and not the traitor, why hide it btw? It can hype the said Beast Pirates easily, to be able to stab the strongest scabbard) and Raizo's face bleeding.

5. Not enough focus on Calamities, and 8 y.o. Jack didn't appear at all
Similar to point above about Scabbards, the Calamities also got no focus. Why the hell King and Queen shown in silhouettes, while we already know their appearance currently? On lesser note, why also they never appeared during the whole Oden's boiling execution?
(on positive note, I like that King did appear during the panel with prime Gecko Moria)

6. Oden and retainers vs Kaido and Beasts felt very rushed
Rushed. Imo the war should have been made into 2 chapters. With more focus to Calamities and Scabbards, and intense moment between Oden vs Kaido. This is popular opinion I think, and maybe some people can explain this point clearer than me.

7. No hint about traitor at all
Self explanatory. Well this point is indeed a personal expectation.


B-but troll thread but but Ndule!!

Do you actually want the traitor's reveal in the flashback?

Please never write a story.
Literally every point bar oden's character could resolve itself in the presents

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Literally every point bar oden's character could resolve in the presents

What do you mean by this? That Oden is actually gonna get more characterisation in the present? Yet he's dead?

 

[JerAx]

What do you mean by this? That Oden is actually gonna get more characterisation in the present? Yet he's dead?

Thats what I said evwrything excluding oden can still resolved in the presents... Well maybe not in the war but its almost a given toki and beast pirates's flashback is coming.

I cant even, somebody actually wants the flashback to spoil the traitor

 

[Topi Jerami]

Do you actually want the traitor's reveal in the flashback?

Please never write a story.
Literally every point bar oden's character could resolve itself in the presents

Topic: Oden Piece

JerAx: In the presents



At least you haven't joined with the usual chorrus "don't like don't read make your own series!!1"

 

[Homelander]

How is this a troll thread?
I was just starting the discussion, it flowed nicely (look at first page) until a user suddenly started the first shot saying I lack patience, reading comprehension blablabla

Now since I have free time again, let me explain bit by bit about my points:
(+)
1. Oden finally dead
Yep, good riddance to this shitty character (he is fictional character anyway so I don't care if this sounds harsh). Also good riddance to "is Oden still alive?" theory which is dumb since the beginning.
Orochi: Oden died right in front of my eyes.
Oden boys: B-but what if Oden still alive and the 1 got boiled was the old hag (lol)

2. Flashback is finally over
Self explanatory. Hoorray the boring Oden Piece finally came to an end and we return to the current storyline. Agreed with dizzy here, I started the flashback liking most of the scabbards (Neko, Kawamatsu, Ashura, Okiku) only to somehow like them less after the flashback ends.

3. Some younger scabbards' design are really nice (Nekomamushi, Kawamatsu, and Okiku)
I'm talking about these panels

Spoiler: Nekomamushi and Kawamatsu

Spoiler: Okiku and Nekomamushi

right middle panel, child Okiku playing with Nekomamushi

4. Mystery of "who was Whitebeard's right hand man" got answered, it was Oden during his short joining to Whitebeard Pirates and Marco was still apprentice
Self explanatory.

5. No Lulffy for 13 chapters
Self explanatory.

(-)
1. Kinemon said Kaido wanted information about his journey with Roger -> result: Oda forgets the whole scene

Spoiler

But nvm, forget this panel and let's focus on Oden being a naive dumbass instead!!

2. Toki, the survivor from Void Century was useless, but what's to expect from One Piece about its female characters
Self explanatory.
Sure she may speak later in future flashback either Toki Piece or Hiyori Piece. But topic in this thread: Oden Piece.
So Toki being Miss Background Character in Oden Piece stays true.

3. Oden became dumb and believed Kaido and Orochi would just leave Wano like that after 5 years
Now don't sugarcoat it with "muh muh will be explained later muh muh Oda will have a mindblown plot twist about the motive, patience!!1" @Kingslayer style
Reality: motive has been revealed. It's a shitty motive. Which is at least fitting for this whole shitty flashback.

4. Scabbards got sidelined so much (in Oden vs Kaido chapter)
Once again, topic is Oden Piece, not about future or whatever.
In this flashback, during whole Kaido and Beasts vs Oden and scabbards, the scabbards got sidelined so much. No panel of them showing off their abilities, Kinemon cutting fire, Raizo being ninja, etc (which is already known by now, so no need to sAvE iT fOr LaTeR). Suddenly, they got defeated and captured. Only bit shown was Ashura was stabbed in the back by unknown assailant (if it turns out as the work of Beast Pirates and not the traitor, why hide it btw? It can hype the said Beast Pirates easily, to be able to stab the strongest scabbard) and Raizo's face bleeding.

5. Not enough focus on Calamities, and 8 y.o. Jack didn't appear at all
Similar to point above about Scabbards, the Calamities also got no focus. Why the hell King and Queen shown in silhouettes, while we already know their appearance currently? On lesser note, why also they never appeared during the whole Oden's boiling execution?
(on positive note, I like that King did appear during the panel with prime Gecko Moria)

6. Oden and retainers vs Kaido and Beasts felt very rushed
Rushed. Imo the war should have been made into 2 chapters. With more focus to Calamities and Scabbards, and intense moment between Oden vs Kaido. This is popular opinion I think, and maybe some people can explain this point clearer than me.

7. No hint about traitor at all
Self explanatory. Well this point is indeed a personal expectation.


B-but troll thread but but Ndule!!

You are one of the most impatient reader i have actually met on any forum . I am not sure why dont you wait for things to turn around nope you use words "Big meme" , "Loden" so any genuine fan would never think you as serious reader . Is it?

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

Topic: Oden Piece

JerAx: In the presents



At least you haven't joined with the usual chorrus "don't like don't read make your own series!!1"

Because you are meme level user here . Literally no one thinks you are even here to read one piece . :cheers:

At least JerAx knows those plot will fullfill soon .

 

[stealthblack]

5/ 10 because it was way tooo long about a guy that died 20 years ago. I care more about SHs.

if it was a 4-5 chapters flashback maybe I woudl rate it a 10. Or if it was split in 3 parts and only get 1 part in act 1, 1 part in act 2 and 1 part in act 3.

 

[JerAx]

You are one of the most impatient reader i have actually met on any forum . I am not sure why dont you wait for things to turn around nope you use words "Big meme" , "Loden" so any genuine fan would never think you as serious reader . Is it?

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2020

Because you are meme level user here . Literally no think you are even here to read one piece . :cheers:

At least JerAx knows those plot will fullfill soon .

As a fellow countrymen I feel ashamed

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Thats what I said evwrything excluding oden can still resolved in the presents... Well maybe not in the war but its almost a given toki and beast pirates's flashback is coming.

I cant even, somebody actually wants the flashback to spoil the traitor

Why not spoil the traitor? Is it that big a deal?

 

[JerAx]

5/ 10 because it was way tooo long about a guy that died 20 years ago. I care more about SHs.

if it was a 4-5 chapters flashback maybe I woudl rate it a 10. Or if it was split in 3 parts and only get 1 part in act 1, 1 part in act 2 and 1 part in act 3.

I also thought of splitting the flashback to improve the pacing... But I think it will absolutely kills the tension if we have flashback at the war. Oda kinda wrote himself to a corner tbh,

Why not spoil the traitor? Is it that big a deal?

Okay reveal now, or reveal at the highest tension at the war

 

[Topi Jerami]

me: a hint about the traitor
JerAx: spoil the traitor



me: discussing One Piece and writing essay
Kingpatience: mimimi you're not
also Kingpatience: let's also attack Ndule but not tag him because otherwise my fodder ass will get neg diffed

 

[JerAx]

me: a hint about the traitor
JerAx: spoil the traitor



me: discussing One Piece and writing essay
Kingpatience: mimimi you're not
also Kingpatience: let's also attack Ndule but not tag him because otherwise my fodder ass will get neg diffed

Thats why I ask you to read the manga slower if you dont get any hint

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Okay reveal now, or reveal at the highest tension at the war

Well the war doesn't need such drama to be good right? Is anyone expecting like to be so hurt by whoever this traitor is by now? All the suspects who could've mattered are proven to not matter

Why not make the flashback more interesting with this superfluous plot line then at least?

It could make for an interesting story where tte reader knows more than the characters and you get great suspense from that. Instead it's going be a boring reveal now no one will care about

 

[Homelander]

All right Topi i agree you are cent percent right :cheers:

Btw your poll shows many people actually loved the flashback so majority won . People loved the oden wank .

 

[JerAx]

Well the war doesn't need such drama to be good right? Is anyone expecting like to be so hurt by whoever this traitor is by now? All the suspects who could've mattered are proven to not matter

Why not make the flashback more interesting with this superfluous plot line then at least?

It could make for an interesting story where tte reader knows more than the characters and you get great suspense from that. Instead it's going be a boring reveal now no one will care about

No the things is traitor was set up since zou, reveal now is not proportional versus the setup

Also if we know who, that creates 0 tension. There are times where what you say is true but its not now

 

[Homelander]

Well the war doesn't need such drama to be good right? Is anyone expecting like to be so hurt by whoever this traitor is by now? All the suspects who could've mattered are proven to not matter

Why not make the flashback more interesting with this superfluous plot line then at least?

It could make for an interesting story where tte reader knows more than the characters and you get great suspense from that. Instead it's going be a boring reveal now no one will care about

I get your point but i do think traitor plot sure has some twist here . We all suspected a scabbard was behind it or shinobu . So whoever is the traitor is active person right ?

I have made lot of thoughts on the issue . It has something to do with wano . Dont you feel weird whole traitor thing started after toki arrived ? So i would assume someone wanted toki out of this and oden's plan to fail . Def this has more to the plot , thats why toki is screened out of this story because of her void century connection .

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

No the things is traitor was set up since zou, reveal now is not proportional versus the setup

Also if we know who that creates 0 tension. There are times where what you say is true but its not now

Say what now? Have you not seen movies where the audience knowing things the characters don't know creates suspense? The entire Horror genre of movies and TV was created from this plot device.

If you think this situation can't create tension then you either think Oda is not a good enough writer to use this very basic storytelling mechanic or you've just not paid attention to this trope existing in almost every story you've probably ever seen.

Hell this has been used even in one piece MULTIPLE times