Powers & Abilities Greenbull likely has the Minotaur Fruit
- Thread starter Chrono
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The argument was never about technique names - it was about the kanji Oda uses there and the wordplay he chose to do. All of Katakuri's attacks are themed after Mochi but Marco's being themed after the Fenghuang should be ignored apparently.
The fruit is a mixture of both, visually speaking Marco's phoenix form even looks like a Fenghuang rather than a Phoenix.
The fruit is a mixture of both, visually speaking Marco's phoenix form even looks like a Fenghuang rather than a Phoenix.
Did Oda tell you that it's irrelevant? That he's using the Kanjis there just for fun?
Which is the exact technique which has the Kanji for Fenghuang in it. It literally translates to "Fenghuang Seal" lol, Viz chose to use Phoenix there.
It still looks like a Fenghuang lol. Marco even has those 3 tails that only the Fenghuang usually do. Not the Phoenix.
Which is the exact technique which has the Kanji for Fenghuang in it. It literally translates to "Fenghuang Seal" lol, Viz chose to use Phoenix there.
It still looks like a Fenghuang lol. Marco even has those 3 tails that only the Fenghuang usually do. Not the Phoenix.
The main power of the Phoenix Fruit....is regen. Fenghuang dont have Regen. Sure the DF has similarities with Fenghuangs....but at the end of the day its a Pheonix not a Fenghuang.
Im done with this debate. Idgaf about technique names. I care about the actual animal that Marco turns into. And its clearly Oda's incarnation of a Pheonix.
Im done with this debate. Idgaf about technique names. I care about the actual animal that Marco turns into. And its clearly Oda's incarnation of a Pheonix.
The issue here is that you don't quite understand the modern Fenghuang.
The Pokémon Ho-Oh is a fire-type red bird with the ability regeneration. Is it a phoenix? The Digimon Hououmon has fire abilities and its digievolution could be triggered once your partner lost a life (therefore it was reborn). Is it a phoenix too? Both creatures were named after the Fenghuang (it is called Houou in Japan) yet their powers are those of the Western phoenix.
Why do I mention these two known examples? Because, again, you are missing the point. You clearly don't understand how Japanese pop culture sees Fenghuang today, which is currently known as "the Eastern phoenix"; hence why you discard the obvious inspiration behind Marco. The guy isn't even red (phoenix literally means "vermillion"); he is physically designed after Fenghuang (rooster comb, pheasant caruncle, crane head and neck, peacock tail); he's full of puns about it (the pineapples he eats are a reference to Fenghuang, has techniques named after it); his fruit's model is 不死鳥 whose literal reading is "immortal bird", which is also attributed to Fenghuang (it has attributes of immortality; in fact, it is truly immortal unlike the Western phoenix that needs to die before being reborn —therefore fits Marco better since he isn't dying everytime he regenerates); and in that zodiac color spread, Marco represented the rooster, which is directly related to Fenghuang unlike the Western phoenix.
The moment you say "Fenghuang dont have Regen" even though some of the most famous Fenghuangs in popular culture (like Ho-Oh and Hououmon) are explicitly depicted as Eastern phoenixes with regeneration and reborn abilities, then what is clear is that you have a very shallow understanding of this creature.
On topic: an admiral's ability is linked to its color while never to its animal theme, so Greenbull's ability is green, not bull; whenever Oda wants to depict a legendary creature that is an hybrid by default he doesn't resort to a mythical zoan but other methods —centaurs created by Law, Minotaur/Werewolf/Tarasca/Anubis/Jorogumo/Pegasus are represented by the hybrid forms of Minotaurus/Jabra/Pekoms/Chaka/Black Maria/Pierre; Cerberus, a unicorn, a vampire and a centaur as chimeric zombies in Thriller Bark; and so on.
Also, it sounds totally out of place: Gravity-Light-Minotaur? Nah, I highly doubt that's his fruit. Doesn't even explain his fasting ability.
The Pokémon Ho-Oh is a fire-type red bird with the ability regeneration. Is it a phoenix? The Digimon Hououmon has fire abilities and its digievolution could be triggered once your partner lost a life (therefore it was reborn). Is it a phoenix too? Both creatures were named after the Fenghuang (it is called Houou in Japan) yet their powers are those of the Western phoenix.
Why do I mention these two known examples? Because, again, you are missing the point. You clearly don't understand how Japanese pop culture sees Fenghuang today, which is currently known as "the Eastern phoenix"; hence why you discard the obvious inspiration behind Marco. The guy isn't even red (phoenix literally means "vermillion"); he is physically designed after Fenghuang (rooster comb, pheasant caruncle, crane head and neck, peacock tail); he's full of puns about it (the pineapples he eats are a reference to Fenghuang, has techniques named after it); his fruit's model is 不死鳥 whose literal reading is "immortal bird", which is also attributed to Fenghuang (it has attributes of immortality; in fact, it is truly immortal unlike the Western phoenix that needs to die before being reborn —therefore fits Marco better since he isn't dying everytime he regenerates); and in that zodiac color spread, Marco represented the rooster, which is directly related to Fenghuang unlike the Western phoenix.
The moment you say "Fenghuang dont have Regen" even though some of the most famous Fenghuangs in popular culture (like Ho-Oh and Hououmon) are explicitly depicted as Eastern phoenixes with regeneration and reborn abilities, then what is clear is that you have a very shallow understanding of this creature.
On topic: an admiral's ability is linked to its color while never to its animal theme, so Greenbull's ability is green, not bull; whenever Oda wants to depict a legendary creature that is an hybrid by default he doesn't resort to a mythical zoan but other methods —centaurs created by Law, Minotaur/Werewolf/Tarasca/Anubis/Jorogumo/Pegasus are represented by the hybrid forms of Minotaurus/Jabra/Pekoms/Chaka/Black Maria/Pierre; Cerberus, a unicorn, a vampire and a centaur as chimeric zombies in Thriller Bark; and so on.
Also, it sounds totally out of place: Gravity-Light-Minotaur? Nah, I highly doubt that's his fruit. Doesn't even explain his fasting ability.
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Zero concepts of a Fenghuang is used. Saying Fenghuang in attack name...is not using a concept.
Ive never seen someone try so hard to deny a DF lmao. Its literally called the phoenix fruit and you're jumping over hurdles to say Marco's DF turns him into a different animal.
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Is it called the Pheonix Fruit or the Fenghuang Fruit ?
Ive never seen someone try so hard to deny a DF lmao. Its literally called the phoenix fruit and you're jumping over hurdles to say Marco's DF turns him into a different animal.
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Is it called the Pheonix Fruit or the Fenghuang Fruit ?
Is it made explicit whether Oda means the Western or the Eastern since the Japanese word means "immortal bird" which Fenghuang is too and popular culture sees it as an Eastern phoenix instead of a differentiated beast? Why is Oda giving Marco tons of Fenghuang traits if he doesn't intend his fruit to be linked to it? Why is Marco's bird designed after Fenghuang? Why won't you address that the modern Fenghuang does have the powers commonly attributed to the Western phoenix?
Do you think this "name argument" of yours is good or something? You basically showed you have a very shallow knowledge on these myths, you are going to need something better than just a name with many meanings that can be linked to both versions of the bird.
Answser me something: if Oda doesn't want the reader to notice the Fenguang traits in Marco or finds them irrelevant to his ability, why does he insist on addressing them?
Do you think this "name argument" of yours is good or something? You basically showed you have a very shallow knowledge on these myths, you are going to need something better than just a name with many meanings that can be linked to both versions of the bird.
Answser me something: if Oda doesn't want the reader to notice the Fenguang traits in Marco or finds them irrelevant to his ability, why does he insist on addressing them?
In my opinion, either that or an Eastern mythical creature that relates to time directly or indirectly (such as symbolizing time and longevity; for example, through vegetation). Time not only fits the physics trio but is also depicted as green in tons of popular works.
What is clear here is that every admiral's colour theme was linked to their ability, from Kuzan to Fujitora. Odds are Ryokugyu has a "green ability", and Minotaur wasn't green.
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Not exactly. The literal translation of Marco's fruit is "Bird Bird fruit, model: immortal bird" (トリトリの実 モデル"不死鳥"). In other words, as it is written, his power is "Tori Tori no mi, moderu: Fushichou". "Phoenix" (Fenikkusu) appears in its furigana (フェニックス), that's indeed true, but Fenghuang is an "immortal bird" too. In my opinion there's some intended ambiguity there that fits what I explained before and in my next paragraphs.
It's not as simple as you are making it seem because, as I said, modern culture pretty much merged both animals and differentiates them as "Western phoenix" and "Eastern phoenix". In current times, the interchangeability of both creatures is common; for example, the Phoenix constellation, which is named after the Western version, is actually called "Fenghuang constellation" in Chinese and "Houou constellation" in Japanese.
When you argue that Marco's fruit is the Western phoenix because that's its name, it's just a very shallow understanding of this issue, as I've been telling you (with no mean intention). The modern world basically sees the Fenghuang/Houou as a phoenix. Pop culture gave it the powers of the Western bird (again: Ho-Oh and Hououmon are the best examples of this) and "(Greek) phoenix" has been translated to "Fenghuang" and "Houou" tons of times (and vice versa; since I already mentioned it, Hououmon is named Phoenixmon in the West).
Considering all of this plus how many Fenghuang traits Marco has, it's absurd to deny that Oda is just doing what everybody else does these days: combining the two birds. The best scenario for you is that Marco is an hybrid of both birds, but that would mean that he has an explicit Eastern side that creatures like the Minotaur lack.
What is clear here is that every admiral's colour theme was linked to their ability, from Kuzan to Fujitora. Odds are Ryokugyu has a "green ability", and Minotaur wasn't green.
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Not exactly. The literal translation of Marco's fruit is "Bird Bird fruit, model: immortal bird" (トリトリの実 モデル"不死鳥"). In other words, as it is written, his power is "Tori Tori no mi, moderu: Fushichou". "Phoenix" (Fenikkusu) appears in its furigana (フェニックス), that's indeed true, but Fenghuang is an "immortal bird" too. In my opinion there's some intended ambiguity there that fits what I explained before and in my next paragraphs.
It's not as simple as you are making it seem because, as I said, modern culture pretty much merged both animals and differentiates them as "Western phoenix" and "Eastern phoenix". In current times, the interchangeability of both creatures is common; for example, the Phoenix constellation, which is named after the Western version, is actually called "Fenghuang constellation" in Chinese and "Houou constellation" in Japanese.
When you argue that Marco's fruit is the Western phoenix because that's its name, it's just a very shallow understanding of this issue, as I've been telling you (with no mean intention). The modern world basically sees the Fenghuang/Houou as a phoenix. Pop culture gave it the powers of the Western bird (again: Ho-Oh and Hououmon are the best examples of this) and "(Greek) phoenix" has been translated to "Fenghuang" and "Houou" tons of times (and vice versa; since I already mentioned it, Hououmon is named Phoenixmon in the West).
Considering all of this plus how many Fenghuang traits Marco has, it's absurd to deny that Oda is just doing what everybody else does these days: combining the two birds. The best scenario for you is that Marco is an hybrid of both birds, but that would mean that he has an explicit Eastern side that creatures like the Minotaur lack.
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