General & Others Do you hate "Talk no jutsu"? General thoughts about it?
- Thread starter soheilhazrat
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I liked it when it was directed to Zabuza. That was a powerful moment and it didn't come out forced at all. Naruto thought he lost Sasuke and his new friend Haku and was more or less venting his frustrations out at an easy target.
Didn't like it with Nagato, not because it's unbelievable, but because it was so sudden. I understand it was Naruto reusing Nagato's words that really pushed Nagato back into the light. But it was presented as far too quick of a heel turn. Knowing Kishimoto's original idea would've pushed a Pein & Naruto confrontation back a little, I think Naruto's talk no jutsu here might've been fine in Kishi's notes. In the series we got it was really lackluster and hurt Pein as a villain.
Obito? Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. If Obito wasn't already bad, his turn around was atrocious.
Didn't like it with Nagato, not because it's unbelievable, but because it was so sudden. I understand it was Naruto reusing Nagato's words that really pushed Nagato back into the light. But it was presented as far too quick of a heel turn. Knowing Kishimoto's original idea would've pushed a Pein & Naruto confrontation back a little, I think Naruto's talk no jutsu here might've been fine in Kishi's notes. In the series we got it was really lackluster and hurt Pein as a villain.
Obito? Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. If Obito wasn't already bad, his turn around was atrocious.
Against Zabusa I enjoyed it. It had a great emotional impact.
Against Neji, I enjoyed it and it was written well.
Against Gara I enjoyed it. It was a great way for Garaa's character development and great set up for future events that happened with the Akatasuki in particular with Granny Chiyo.
Against Sasuke it was 100% needed and handled really well even though Naruto lost, his talk no jutsu was written well and also developed Sasuke's charater.
Against Granny Chiyo probably my favorite moment in the entire series only after Tobi's narration of Itachi backstory and Garaa's epic speech to the great nations.
Against Pain, it was great. Against Nagato it was a let down because it was kinda forced and unnatural but that was right after the great reveal of Naruto's father so there were more highs than lows.
In the war arc, well everything in the war arc was bad lol.
Against Neji, I enjoyed it and it was written well.
Against Gara I enjoyed it. It was a great way for Garaa's character development and great set up for future events that happened with the Akatasuki in particular with Granny Chiyo.
Against Sasuke it was 100% needed and handled really well even though Naruto lost, his talk no jutsu was written well and also developed Sasuke's charater.
Against Granny Chiyo probably my favorite moment in the entire series only after Tobi's narration of Itachi backstory and Garaa's epic speech to the great nations.
Against Pain, it was great. Against Nagato it was a let down because it was kinda forced and unnatural but that was right after the great reveal of Naruto's father so there were more highs than lows.
In the war arc, well everything in the war arc was bad lol.
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Only one who mattered died was kakashi who definetly should've somehow came back.
i think him not killing Nagato in respect of Jiariya was very good jiraiya wanted no hate in the world if naruto killed nagato that'd be everything against what jiraiya thought naruto
Talk no jutsu against Nagato was very forced tho ngl it is what makes it questionable
Imo its very good cause it is unique way of defeating villains instead of just kicking their ass because of nakama
i think him not killing Nagato in respect of Jiariya was very good jiraiya wanted no hate in the world if naruto killed nagato that'd be everything against what jiraiya thought naruto
Talk no jutsu against Nagato was very forced tho ngl it is what makes it questionable
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Imo its very good cause it is unique way of defeating villains instead of just kicking their ass because of nakama
i don't mind it, because it gives the readers a deeper insight into the characters mindsets and development.
i do think that it doesn't provide a lot entertainment on it's own.
sometimes it's not needed, and that's when the characters are well developed and their ideals are already known to the readers.
sometimes no matter how good the combat is, the fight still feels incomplete, that's when one or both of the opposing characters lacks development, thus it is necessary to use talk no jitsu to give more weight to the conflict.
overall i like when the talk no jitsu is incorporated into the fight itself, i find it extremely entertaining when there is a clash of both mights and ideals.
pre and post fight flashbacks can reduce the need for verbal clash mid fight, imo that's not enough.
during onigashima for example:
luffy vs kaido: good combat, mediocre talk no jitsu (kaido lacks development)
zoro vs king: good combat, no talk no jitsu (why are they even fighting)
sanji vs queen: bad combat, good talk no jitsu (that's not even a fight)
i do think that it doesn't provide a lot entertainment on it's own.
sometimes it's not needed, and that's when the characters are well developed and their ideals are already known to the readers.
sometimes no matter how good the combat is, the fight still feels incomplete, that's when one or both of the opposing characters lacks development, thus it is necessary to use talk no jitsu to give more weight to the conflict.
overall i like when the talk no jitsu is incorporated into the fight itself, i find it extremely entertaining when there is a clash of both mights and ideals.
pre and post fight flashbacks can reduce the need for verbal clash mid fight, imo that's not enough.
during onigashima for example:
luffy vs kaido: good combat, mediocre talk no jitsu (kaido lacks development)
zoro vs king: good combat, no talk no jitsu (why are they even fighting)
sanji vs queen: bad combat, good talk no jitsu (that's not even a fight)
I felt like the only thing bad about the Nagato situation is the rinne rebirth.
He shouldn't have killed Kakashi, and should have given him closure with his father in the war arc as an edo tensei.
I thought it was handled well enough with Nagato, Jiraiya writing Nagato's words into a book, and naming the main character "Naruto".
Naruto promising to never change because that's who "Naruto (The Gutsy Ninja)" is.
It probably wouldn't have worked if it wasn't Nagato's own words immortalized thrown back at him.
Then everyone came back to life and made the whole invasion pointless and without consequence lol
He shouldn't have killed Kakashi, and should have given him closure with his father in the war arc as an edo tensei.
I thought it was handled well enough with Nagato, Jiraiya writing Nagato's words into a book, and naming the main character "Naruto".
Naruto promising to never change because that's who "Naruto (The Gutsy Ninja)" is.
It probably wouldn't have worked if it wasn't Nagato's own words immortalized thrown back at him.
Then everyone came back to life and made the whole invasion pointless and without consequence lol
I absolutely LOATHE The Talk No Jutsu. . .
It's Just too Naiive & Simply DOESN'T Work outside of an Idealistic & Impossible World(Where what is Literally Impossible IRL can Happen BECAUSE IT'S A FANTASY);
The TNJ would Fail in worlds like the world of One Piece; or the Post-Apocalyptic setting of FOTNS; Where there are a LOT of Scumbags who won't give a f*** about Naruto's TnJ. . .
Seriously; Talk No Jutsu is BULLS***; People DON'T Change their Minds so easily; and are MORE likely to Double down on their Beliefs when they are Challenged; instead of even Entertaining the possibility of them being wrong!!
People are naturally against Change; and want to remain within the Safety & Comfort zone of their Status Quo; and will do ANYTHING to maintain their Precious Status Quo from Changing things; and Threatening their Consistent Way Of Life that they're used to!
People Aren't going to Change; Because THEY SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO
It's Just too Naiive & Simply DOESN'T Work outside of an Idealistic & Impossible World(Where what is Literally Impossible IRL can Happen BECAUSE IT'S A FANTASY);
The TNJ would Fail in worlds like the world of One Piece; or the Post-Apocalyptic setting of FOTNS; Where there are a LOT of Scumbags who won't give a f*** about Naruto's TnJ. . .
Seriously; Talk No Jutsu is BULLS***; People DON'T Change their Minds so easily; and are MORE likely to Double down on their Beliefs when they are Challenged; instead of even Entertaining the possibility of them being wrong!!
People are naturally against Change; and want to remain within the Safety & Comfort zone of their Status Quo; and will do ANYTHING to maintain their Precious Status Quo from Changing things; and Threatening their Consistent Way Of Life that they're used to!
People Aren't going to Change; Because THEY SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO
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IMHO; It'd be Better;
Because the TnJ is Just a Pipe Dream that'd never e-v-e-r succeed on REAL People; who are stubborn, and double down on their idealogies when they are challenged; and are more likely to tell Blond Boy to SHUT THE **** UP, because they don't want to change, they don't want to listen to what he says; they are NOT going to change their entire life's idealogy just because of some Idealistic Teenager; because People are More comfortable in the feeling of safety within their status quo; and they're going to do whatever it takes to protect their status quo
Naruto would NEVER be able to do **** All in the real world we live in; because People are VERY unwilling to change their status quo for ANYONE; people are self-centered, and don't care to be challenged, or be corrected, because they want to do what they want not giving a Rat's A*** about the consequences, or how it affects other people!!
we Don't need to teach Children these Lies that People can be so easily persuaded out of their entire life's idealogies; because that's just setting them up for disappointment!
Because the TnJ is Just a Pipe Dream that'd never e-v-e-r succeed on REAL People; who are stubborn, and double down on their idealogies when they are challenged; and are more likely to tell Blond Boy to SHUT THE **** UP, because they don't want to change, they don't want to listen to what he says; they are NOT going to change their entire life's idealogy just because of some Idealistic Teenager; because People are More comfortable in the feeling of safety within their status quo; and they're going to do whatever it takes to protect their status quo
Naruto would NEVER be able to do **** All in the real world we live in; because People are VERY unwilling to change their status quo for ANYONE; people are self-centered, and don't care to be challenged, or be corrected, because they want to do what they want not giving a Rat's A*** about the consequences, or how it affects other people!!
we Don't need to teach Children these Lies that People can be so easily persuaded out of their entire life's idealogies; because that's just setting them up for disappointment!