Questions & Mysteries If Sanji will never get CoC

Chrono

Chrono

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#41
#41
kurwa said:
Wow, I cannot believe you said all that and still missed the point of Baratie arc

The point of it was that Sanji used to be like Zoro and Luffy, but after all he has been through in life, he stopped dreaming and settled down in a real world and started to live solely because he wanted to repay the debt to Zeff instead of living his life

Zeff keeps comparing Sanji to Luffy & Zoro because that's who Sanji used to be:




When Sanji starts talking about All Blue, Zeffs sees that he's beginning to dream again

Zoro for example was never pushed as hard as Sanji was in his life, so his character never had his will broken. All Zoro did was train and that's it.
  • He was never black mailed,
  • he never starved as a child almost to death for months
  • he never had abusive family
  • his dream is realistic, unlike All Blue who is said to be a legend
  • his family member was never said to be dead
even Luffy had his will broken as adult when Akainu killed Ace:


This was never about Sanji learning about Zoro's and Luffy's will. It was bout Sanji re-learning to be the same as them again
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Lmao exactly. How many freaking Conquerors had their wills broken.

- Luffy
- Hancock
- Chinjoa

Sanji didnt even have his will broken. He just owed a debt that was more important to him than his dream at that time.
 
Shanal

Shanal

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#42
#42
Dark Knight Sanji said:
Says the guy who is using profanities in his replies?!
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Wat

kurwa said:
Wow, I cannot believe you said all that and still missed the point of Baratie arc

The point of it was that Sanji used to be like Zoro and Luffy, but after all he has been through in life, he stopped dreaming and settled down in a real world and started to live solely because he wanted to repay the debt to Zeff instead of living his life

Zeff keeps comparing Sanji to Luffy & Zoro because that's who Sanji used to be:




When Sanji starts talking about All Blue, Zeffs sees that he's beginning to dream again

Zoro for example was never pushed as hard as Sanji was in his life, so his character never had his will broken. All Zoro did was train and that's it.
  • He was never black mailed,
  • he never starved as a child almost to death for months
  • he never had abusive family
  • his dream is realistic, unlike All Blue who is said to be a legend
  • his family member was never said to be dead
even Luffy had his will broken as adult when Akainu killed Ace:


This was never about Sanji learning about Zoro's and Luffy's will. It was bout Sanji re-learning to be the same as them again
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I am not denying it. I did say that Zoro's and Luffy's actions alongside Zeff's explanation definitely inspired changes in Sanji and we see his actions represent as such. Also making him accept his ambition again.

But if he used to be just like them in all regards for their mind-set, and had just as much devotion for their dreams, he wouldn't literally be confused as to why Zoro is doing what he is doing. He won't act insanely surprised and question it as if he doesn't have a clue- if he once knew a devotion of that level, he'd have understood it, even if he might've disagreed and preferred his new ways, he'd have still not been clueless about it.

It's further emphasized in TB. Where Sanji's worded reasoning as to why he should be sacrificed instead of Zoro making that decision is that Zoro's devotion for his ambition is too huge, implying a contrary on his part.

Sanji doesn't revolve around All Blue and those dreams like Zoro and Luffy do with WSS and PK. His devotion and conviction isn't nearly as centric.
 
Chrono

Chrono

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#43
#43
Shanal said:
It's further emphasized in TB. Where Sanji's worded reasoning as to why he should be sacrificed instead of Zoro making that decision is that Zoro's devotion for his ambition is too huge, implying a contrary on his part.
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Literal bs. Sanji never said Zoro's devotion to his ambition is bigger than his. Sanji was finding an excuse for Zoro to not throw his life away. Thus trying to remind him of his ambition so Sanji himself can sacrifice himself for the crew.
 
Raiden7

Raiden7

‎
#44
#44
kurwa said:
Wow, I cannot believe you said all that and still missed the point of Baratie arc

The point of it was that Sanji used to be like Zoro and Luffy, but after all he has been through in life, he stopped dreaming and settled down in a real world and started to live solely because he wanted to repay the debt to Zeff instead of living his life

Zeff keeps comparing Sanji to Luffy & Zoro because that's who Sanji used to be:




When Sanji starts talking about All Blue, Zeffs sees that he's beginning to dream again

Zoro for example was never pushed as hard as Sanji was in his life, so his character never had his will broken. All Zoro did was train and that's it.
  • He was never black mailed,
  • he never starved as a child almost to death for months
  • he never had abusive family
  • his dream is realistic, unlike All Blue who is said to be a legend
  • his family member was never said to be dead
even Luffy had his will broken as adult when Akainu killed Ace:


This was never about Sanji learning about Zoro's and Luffy's will. It was bout Sanji re-learning to be the same as them again
Click to expand...
This. :stealthblack:
 
kurwa

kurwa

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#45
#45
Shanal said:
But if he used to be just like them in all regards for their mind-set, and had just as much devotion for their dreams, he wouldn't literally be confused as to why Zoro is doing what he is doing. He won't act insanely surprised and question it as if he doesn't have a clue- if he once knew a devotion of that level, he'd have understood it, even if he might've disagreed and preferred his new ways, he'd have still not been clueless about it.
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what the hell are you talking about? We literally see Zeff saying that Sanji used to be just like Luffy
There's no "if's" or "butt's"

Sanji grew up that's why. He spent more years not dreaming than he did.
Can you recall why you used to do things as a child? Did you need a reason? Because adults are rational while children aren't.

Zoro and Luffy grew up without ever giving up on their ambition as a child and then having a huge pause like 10 years. When Akainu broke Luffy's will, it was still only like few minutes until Jinbei knocked sense back into Luffy as to why he should continue.

Sanji got that wake up call only after 10 years when Luffy showed up
Shanal said:
It's further emphasized in TB. Where Sanji's worded reasoning as to why he should be sacrificed instead of Zoro making that decision is that Zoro's devotion for his ambition is too huge, implying a contrary on his part.
Click to expand...
what?

Shanal said:
Sanji doesn't revolve around All Blue and those dreams like Zoro and Luffy do with WSS and PK. His devotion and conviction isn't nearly as centric.
Click to expand...
what?
 
Chrono

Chrono

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#46
#46
kurwa said:
what the hell are you talking about? We literally see Zeff saying that Sanji used to be just like Luffy
There's no "if's" or "butt's"

Sanji grew up that's why. He spent more years not dreaming than he did.
Can you recall why you used to do things as a child? Did you need a reason? Because adults are rational while children aren't.

Zoro and Luffy grew up without ever giving up on their ambition as a child and then having a huge pause like 10 years. When Akainu broke Luffy's will, it was still only like few minutes until Jinbei knocked sense back into Luffy as to why he should continue.

Sanji only got that wake up call only after 10 years when Luffy showed up

what?


what?
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Dont even know why were arguing this one panel is literally enough to show hes exactly like Zoro and Luffy.

 
Shanal

Shanal

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#47
#47
Chrono said:
Literal bs. Sanji never said Zoro's devotion to his ambition is bigger than his. Sanji was finding an excuse for Zoro to not throw his life away. Thus trying to remind him of his ambition so Sanji himself can sacrifice himself for the crew.
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Fair enough on the conviction part on the last post, I concede regarding that.

Though other than that, still going to remain by the fact that Sanji's ambition, to him, isn't nearly as important as the other two, nor is it as central to his character or has him revolving about it nearly as much. There are more elements just as- if not more central and valuable to his character. There's a reason why it's literally nor brought up 1/3rd or even 1/4th as much for Sanji's moments as much as it is for other two, nor it is his motivation for majority of them, either.

The line from TB also remains. Calling it an excuse but Sanji literally chose to provide that reasoning and it fits the bill with how Zoro's ambition IS his central thing, and that's why it was emphasized upon multiple times during that chapter- from Sanji, Kuma, and Zoro himself, while it wasn't same for Sanji. It was never narratively put in spotlight.

In fact, that one kid Sanji panel you keep posting is the ONLY panel in all of One Piece and Sanji's development that puts his ambition in a spotlight even close to that.
 
Peroroncino

Peroroncino

🅷🅰🅻🅰 🅼🅰🅳🆁🅸🅳
‎
#50
#50
phatltse62882 said:
Yeah he will get it because he is the Prince of Germa, and a Prince will be a King in the future and the gift for becoming a King is CoC. But I am still happy if Sanji doesnt get it.
He loves Women and doest want to hurt them in anyway.
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so king stelly has coc too?
 
Chrono

Chrono

‎
#51
#51
Shanal said:
Fair enough on the conviction part on the last post, I concede regarding that.

Though other than that, still going to remain by the fact that Sanji's ambition, to him, isn't nearly as important as the other two, nor is it as central to his character or has him revolving about it nearly as much. There are more elements just as- if not more central and valuable to his character. There's a reason why it's literally nor brought up 1/3rd or even 1/4th as much for Sanji's moments as much as it is for other two, nor it is his motivation for majority of them, either.

The line from TB also remains. Calling it an excuse but Sanji literally chose to provide that reasoning and it fits the bill with how Zoro's ambition IS his central thing, and that's why it was emphasized upon multiple times during that chapter- from Sanji, Kuma, and Zoro himself, while it wasn't same for Sanji. It was never narratively put in spotlight.

In fact, that one kid Sanji panel you keep posting is the ONLY panel in all of One Piece and Sanji's development that puts his ambition in a spotlight even close to that.
Click to expand...
Sanji's dream is poorly shown because its not a combative dream. Theirs no cooking challenges in OP or any such things as well.

I would agree Zoro's is more fleshed out and shown more. However thats because all of Zoro's character is somehow linked to his dream. Determination = WSS
Growing strong = WSS
Protecting crew = WSS
Challenges and fights = WSS

Whilst Sanji's strength, protection and love for his crew mates, different challenges throughout the story...non of it links to the All Blue. His cooking is the only thing thats linked to it. And even then the All Blue has nothing to do with Sanji's skills as a chef since the dream is discovery based. So its not fair to say Zoro has more of a strive to his dream then Sanji. We just dont have time to see Sanji's one.

So yh it kinda makes senss why we barely see Sanji ever talk or remind himself of the All Blue. However we know his love for it (as all the SHs love for their dreams) exist.

Yes we only have that one panel of conviction to his dream but thats enough. Without having any challenges linked to his dream, his constant need to survive to protect his crewmates and the fact that nothing links to All Blue....were lucky we have that panel to show what kinda of person Sanji is.

-----
Anyways conviction to dreams isnt the only thing that defines having Conquerors. But even then Sanji showed that.
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@Shanal even with hardships of bringing All Blue up...its still mentioned throughout the story for Sanji.

Sanji the first one to bring up his dream.


Sanji thinking about his dream when calling himself the greatest chef and wanting to support Luffy

All Blue in Sanji's second flashback

Luffy remembering the All Blue and stating their adventures are not over
 
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