Character Discussion A Huge Thread About The Hancock Downplay

#21
I dunno about other places but I don't usually see Hancock's strength getting smack talked on this forum. To be fair she rarely gets talked about at all but still, the Warlord most likely to get mocked isn't Hancock, it is Moria.

Besides, Oda saying "This character is strong" isn't exactly going to translate into a stellar onscreen performance especially if said character is female. Just look at Linlin, the most clowned on major antagonist in the whole series.

If a Yonko can end up looking ridiculous then anyone can.
 
#28
Hey folks, new here so pardon any lack of refineness. Just gonna drop these facts about Hancock in an effort to argue for why she shouldn’t be downplayed because It is my obligated duty to this community that I save people from their delusions. Now Hancock is the likeliest warlord to get thrown to the gutter when we talk about the warlord abolishment and since I’m tired of hearing about people fantasizing her in chains, getting mopped by a fodder or having white knight Guffy swoop in, this post will be to dunk on all of that for the sake of logic.

Hancock is Strong. And this isn’t me saying this—It’s Oda. In fact Strength is a reoccurring theme of hers. You will find that in almost every instance she is referenced, discussed or shown that Oda will give a nod to her power. Keep an eye out for how many times a word is used pertaining to her strength. “Strong” pops up A LOT.

First up is the Summit War. Nyon states something very interesting regarding Hancock’s capabilities.



Nyon urges Hancock to go to war against the Whitebeard Pirates who were hyped as the strongest crew with the WSM himself and yet she still expresses complete confidence that Hancock with her power would meet no real threat to her survival. Nyon as a source is not some isolated kuja citizen but a elderly worldly individual who left out at sea and asks for books and newspapers. She herself is well acquainted with Rayleigh, a living legend. She knows Hancock’s opponents are yonko commanders and a yonko and yet Nyon has no hesitation in throwing her surrogate daughter into this war. You may say that she probably accounted for the admirals and warlords on Hancock’s side except for one caveat. Nyon also knows Hancock’s personality and disdain for the WG and that the woman would not be a team player as shown when Hancock went free-for-all during the war (even before Luffy showed up). Marineford War was actually Whitebeard crew vs Navy vs Hancock. Nyon by her estimate of Hancock’s power, states it clearly for the readers that a Emperor crew poses no threat to the Pirate Empress.

But then another question arises as to why Nyon prefers war with a yonko over war with the WG. It must mean…that Koby be more of a threat to Hancock then Whitebeard and his dozens of commanders along with his alliance (who’s captains were also formerly in his crew like Whitey Bay).

Or it could also mean war with the WG brings about Collateral.

In Nyon’s warning, no mention is there of Hancock being in trouble if the WG strikes Amazon Lily. It is explicitly stated that Nyon’s concern is over the nation and its citizens who would be roped into the conflict and don’t have the power to fend for themselves like Hancock. Nyon isn’t deriding Hancock’s power through this warning, it is a call to action to remind Hancock’s cold, selfish heart that she has a moral obligation as Amazon Lily’s Protector not to endanger her people. To which Hancock responds by readily giving zero fucks (a reoccuring theme is her apathy whenever anyone threatens they will revoke her title ie. Momonga, Smoker, Sentomaru, the navy in general).

Nyon’s prediction is correct of course. Hancock despite performing numerous actions that compromise her position (friendly fire, aiding a criminal, destroying government property, obstructing government officials, “losing” to Luffy). Pretty much a checklist for how to get kicked out of the Shichibukai—gets to keep her title.


Marines could not fathom the idea she would lose to Guffy. We’ve got on site witness from multiple Navy soldiers and Smoker himself. Keep in mind the WG is monitoring the Warlord’s performance. Strength is a pre-requisite to being a warlord, it is a power position. Why do you think it is such a big deal that the WG go through great pains to cover up a Warlord’s loss. They have to have a Perfect WIN record.
Which is why at the end of the war, the report cards came in. Know who didn’t make the cut?



Moriah was actually doing his job btw. He was fighting Jinbei, Curiel, Oars and pirate fodder. Hancock was a blatant detriment to the Navy in so many ways. Yet they still keep her. Because here’s the thing—The Navy Loves Hancock. And no, its not because she’s hot but because she’s strong. And they will jump through multiple hoops to keep her on their side by fulfilling her request or looking past her faults. And I’m not talking about fodder seamen praising her strength, I’m talking about top Brass.





Of all the warlords Aokiji could mention, he name drops the Hebihime and categorizes her into the “exceedingly Rare Class of Pirates”. Oda specifically pairs these two warlords and groups them together into this class of exceptional pirates. Enough so that Doflamingo warranted the mobilization of the admirals. Interesting that Hancock is mentioned right before that sentence.

But this is nothing new, The Navy’s fascination with Hancock dates back to her rookie days.


Here’s the thing, 80 mil for your first bounty at 18 is insane as it is, especially if its just your first pirate campaign (you’d have to attack Mary Geoise or have ponyglyph knowledge to get staggering first bounties, rarely can piracy alone do the job and so early in your career). For reference, Kaido got 70 mil at 13 and BM rocks a 50 mil as a kid. Bear in mind that Hancock had her career halted for 4 years by being a tenryuubito slave at 12. That leaves a 2 year window in between her time released and the moment she jumpstarted her piracy so she probably did her own variant of 3D2Y (possibly also at Rusukaina since its a close island just northwest of her home and she already knows the dangerous creatures there). Even more though was that on top of the bounty, Hancock gets an offer to be appointed a Warlord shortly after her first bounty. That is the equivalent of graduating Cum Laude and getting into an Ivy league. Fittingly at 18.

Naysayers will say the Warlord position is nothing special. Their old news. Nobody cares about those has-beens. Wanna know who does care?



The most pirate hating person there was to ever exist says that he supports the warlord system. Yet another Admiral that advocates for the Warlord clout. It is also here that people need to make a distinction between the WG and the navy vs the Kingdoms of the Reverie. They have Different agendas. I hear people say that Hancock isn’t strong in the end because they stripped her title away without a second thought. But it wasn’t them, think of them as the executive branch following legislation. This was another branch (the union of kings) that abolished it. In both scenarios where Hancock was put into a position where she could lose her title, it took the “greatest war” and the “unprecedented agreement amongst over 50 nations” (the same nations that Garp said bicker and hate eachother). Both of which the Marines, as Akainu puts it—were backed into a corner and had no choice but to enforce the mandate they would otherwise avoid. There not capturing her because she’s weak, their doing this because they have to. So it still holds true that The WG believe in Hancock’s hype.
They did pick her after all, pretty much as soon as she went into their radar.

Now The Warlords by the end of there lifeline were extremely crippled. You had Kuma(slave), Buggy, Weevil, Mihawk and Hancock. So 3 1/2 active members realistically speaking. When Sakazuki and the Navy still considered them a legit power to be deployed even in the face of Kaido BM alliance, you could surmise that maybe the remaining warlords must be bogus heavyweights to still warrent keeping the system. Law did give BM a fight and he is a former warlord. So If the Warlords had a minimum three people relative to Yonkos then yes, they would be a powerhouse faction regardless of some weaker members and it would explain why the Navy consider them to be a response to Yonkos and why they were so dogged in getting them to join the summit war. Here is the statement about them during the war.



What do you know? 5 remaining warlords now just as it was back then. You don’t get to be considered a decisive factor in the war if you weren’t strong. 2 out of 5 are left in this image and interesting enough, Hancock and Mihawk are the only ones to emerge unscathed amongst all warlords (Common misconception, Doflamingo and Kuma both got bruised at the end of the war).


End of war, Koby lies there foaming at the mouth who’s only contribution was getting no-diffed by Pts Luffy(once again) who would get fodderized by the Empress. Hancock had completed a No damage free-for-all run on one of the hardest stages where big names got tagged left and right.


She got off Completely Scott Free, literally and figuratively during the War of the Best. Because she fulfills the 2 requisites of her position.



Strength and Infamy go hand in hand for Hancock. And if your not tired of the word “strong” popping up again, you will be. Because Friend or foe, any who hears of Hancock will almost always throw that adjective around when describing her.







Recall, who did Oda decide would speak on behalf of the strength of the warlords when their titles were revoked?



It’s not a boast, she’s just stating a fact about her position and infamy because her strength is acknowledged by others and she’s just quoting her job description.

A final point to add is that there is a common argument from detractors that Hancock is a fraud who is not strong and that it is her beauty that got her position and renown. Which is why people think Hancock is only chill about her abolishment because she’s living under the delusions that her beauty will serve as a scapegoat for everything. For this, Let me point you to the very first introduction of Amazon Lily where Oda makes explicitly clear how things work in this country. Her beauty doesn’t detract from her strength but actually elevates it. And she is by no means under the delusion that she can get away with her beauty if people bothered to look at her character instead of just proving her point.


She’s deeply insecure, her shtick about being the most beautiful woman and her overt ego is a coping mechanism for her low self worth as a slave/subhuman. If she thought her beauty could give her a pass then why hide her mark? Who cares if the world or her people know she’s a slave, they’ll forgive her right? But nah, thats not the case. Hancock states the day they find out about her mark will be the day she is to be exiled from her home. She goes through great pains not to have the world know her past because deep down she knows they would reject her, beautiful or not.

So what do you do when people brand you a worthless piece of existence? Well if your a strong willed human being. You pick yourself back up, huff up your chest and say to yourself…







You see an hourglass women get pummeled by a less then conventionally desirable entity with the text box made clear. You are considered beautiful only if you are strong. Amazon Lily runs on a meritocracy, the nation at its cultural core is defined by power. They have a coliseum full of death spikes and wage daily matches. There economy basically depends on piracy, sending their best selected warriors out on campaigns to acquire resources. You earn the title of empress through display of strength not through inheritance. Literally spartans with a mix of amazon. So the Kuja you see who fawn over her, love her because she represents a cultural value they hold in high esteem—strength.

And if Strength=Beauty in Amazon Lily, then Hancock’s Beauty can just as easily be replaced with Strength since they are interchangeable. Because at the end of the day, Hancock see’s beauty and strength as one and the same—to get what she wants. They are both tools of power.

And what is the essence of Power? To exert your will onto someone/something else or reality itself to produce an outcome desirable to you. Kings Haki is at its core—Domination. It is why the term is coined the Color of Conquerors. When she uses her looks to get her way, she is exhibiting traits of someone with conquerors. When they fall to her charm, that means her will has dominated theirs and they become subservient to her. The Kuja infamy and their natural inclination to Haki and she being the sovereign of these strong willed people would speak to her Haki mastery. Going further, Of all the islands Kuma could send Luffy to—it is Amazon Lily that he goes to (Oda notes in the sbs that it is Kuma’s will that directs each of the straw-hats destination). And it is in Amazon Lily that a new power concept shakes up the system, this is where Haki is formally introduced to the readers. Each of the 3 forms are then represented by the 3 gorgons with Marigold showing Busoshoku and Sandersionia with Kenbunshoku. It is Hancock that represents Haoshoku. Haki is closely tied to the culture and people of Amazon Lily and Hancock was one of the first OG’s to be shown and confirmed to have it. She is also the first Main antagonist and Warlord to not be fought because Oda scaled her way beyond the MC’s level. (Amazon Lily was also originally planned to be shown later down the series so she really is a post time skip antagonist).

So here is the Hot Take, Hancock would dominate a Lot of people. You’ll realize she is one of the best representations of a King. Subjugates, enslaves, takes what she wants, manipulates, all with the overwhelming presence that comes in the form of her beauty or her infamy.
The men






The Women



Interesting to note she can turn people to putty just by light gestures. She is a surprisingly conservative femme fatale. Hancock is too classy to resort to “happiness punches”. Never does she engage in physical intimacy with anyone to flirt, seduce or charm unless she seeks to harm them and they inexplicably get turned on from getting stepped on. (There is no Canonical scene of her ever being shown initiating physical contact with Guffy since she almost always keeps her distance, closest you get is her adjusting his hoodie in saobody redux). Any “Fan-service scene” exists to move the plot forward such is the case with her slave brand in both occasions or the smuggling of Guffy, all of those were used as lore, plot device or a pivot to the next plot point in the narrative. (You will never have pointless fanservice like with Momo bath time with Nami and Robin). That is because Hancock’s Modus Operandi is adjusting her mannerisms and facial expressions to appeal to her audience. She is so good at controlling and influencing people without ever having to resort nor want to use overt sexual power play which keeps in line with her vulnerable character past and her bashful innocence in romance.

Recap: Hancock is strong. Comes from a nation of warriors predisposed towards Haki with a cultural emphasis on strength. Inducted into positions that heavily emphasizes strength both as a Pirate Empress and Warlord. Young prodigous talent that was drafted early on cuz the navy pissed their pants at her potential. Every mofo across the seven seas hypes her strength whenever they name drop her. No other character and mind you one of the warlords with the fewest appearences, gets so much clout. A huge portion of her character and power is based around subjugating other people to her whims. Haki aside, If you lose to her df then you lose in your match of will against her, the love-love is practically a metaphor of mustering the will to resist her. A feat that is actually very hard to do when admirals and yonkos as it turns out, all have libidos. The concept of Strength and Will permeates her narrative, HanCoc is quite literaly the walking embodiment of a Coc user.
And what did Kaido say about the one thing that matters in life?


And you should take his word for it because he really looks up to Hancock.



Hope this post finds you well.
Me after reading this thread:


Goated thread.:kata:
 
#29
This is an interesting thread, Law is Admiral level or so they say, Doflamingo is stronger than a Yonkou RHM with the highest (non Yonkou) bounty in the story, BB is a Yonkou but the strongest Warlord is downplayed to be skilled and not strong and he can't be strong because the warlords are weak. :quest:
 
#31
Considering the Bounties Crocodile and Mihawk has and the fact that she was listed as a legend that defined the era whom Buggy and Mihawk were both on in the road log. Those two are sporting 3.0-3.5Billion beris. And is mentioned in the same group as living legends like Rayleigh, Rocks and Worlds Wanted Man.




Hancock is very likely to be within this range and considering how much Oda is holding her off, expect a Bogus Bounty. She should be above Blackbeard, Luffy and Buggy putting her above Three Yonkos. I’m not as off base as you think when I said there are A Lot of Top Tier people she would dominate and the people I listed, could very well be inferior to her. She isn’t YC level, Hancock is YONKO Level at MINIMUM.
 
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#36
I think she has been captured.

Her defeat would be an important trigger for the next events. Her role could have been taken by Sabo or Vivi, but the two of them seem relatively fine, so Boa is a natural choice.
But aside from that, I doubt that the Navy could fail with every single Warlord; everything has a limit and Boa is the only one that could be captured because she doesn't have a clear role in future events.
 
#37
He said something would happen to Hancock, Sabo and Vivi.
Sabo is OK and Hancock/Vivi still unknown
I think she has been captured.



Her defeat would be an important trigger for the next events. Her role could have been taken by Sabo or Vivi, but the two of them seem relatively fine, so Boa is a natural choice.
But aside from that, I doubt that the Navy could fail with every single Warlord; everything has a limit and Boa is the only one that could be captured because she doesn't have a clear role in future events.
Except Sabo is regarded as a revolutionary hero flame emperor so that “something would happen to them” ended up being a positive thing. And we do know about Vivi’s outcome, it is stated in ch.1054 that she “mysteriously disappeared” at the same time Cobra was murdered and Who was to boame but Sabo. Meaning Sabo was there with her and considering he came out a hero and alive, along with them successfully fending off the Admirals and freeing Kuma->All signs point to Vivi being ok.
So the only person left is Hancock except why would she have her Bounty mentioned to be incredibly high in the road log if she was captured? Her former bounty is 80 mil from her rookie day, you telling me that is what got her to be mentioned along with Dragon, Rayleigh and 3Bil beri Mihawk and Buggy?

Also the Navy is currently experiencing wave after wave of Bad News post-Wano, Don’t you think that if Hancock was captured that we would’ve had news about it by Now? Capturing a Warlord would be desperately needed positive reception for the Navy but it seems like the Strawhats are just gonna sail off to their next adventure without a care in the world cuz their all caught up with any major current events.

Oda already makes it clear the Warlords fodderized the navy. Aramaki states that the outside world has gone to shit. We have Crocodile who was able to casually sink navy warships that were outside Buggy’s island. Crocodile alone was negging a navy fleet sent to capture a warlord, Hancock negs pretty much every marine fodder just by her looks alone. Not to mention Amazon Lily is a cesspool of sea kings, and the ships are sitting right on top a monster nest. She has her own military. And did you know who’s right around the corner? Rayleigh, the man who swam to Amazon lily half naked all the way from Saobody. Who also is mentioned to have a high bounty waiting to be introduced as depicted by the road log. Hancock’s forces would overkill the Navy fleet considering how pathetic they’ve been shown against Buggy, Croc and Mihawk.

I don’t really care about her eos role especially with how Oda writes. I want her to kick ass and dip out the story. if My post wasn’t clear enough, I want her to have nothing to do with the Strawhats(people she has never met nor cared for) or Luffy(who is part of the reason she’s in this shitfest to begin with and once again isolated Amazon Lily is dragged into another war over other people’s problems). So for the Shippers cuz I know they lurk around when Hancock is in the discussion. Luffy can suck his thumb and sit in his cage fantasizing about saving some other pussy, Nami can get dicked down by the Human condom that her simps can only dream they could get.

God help she do anything worth a damn on her own besides riding off the coattails of other characters to justify her importance to the story.
(Her powerup Zeus is literally another sentient being so Oda could have her lean on someone else to do the dirty work). Onigashima on fire and she couldn’t work up the bright idea(high iq my ass) to head up to the roof where there was a giant thundercloud that Luffy was playing Tarzan with and use it to cause a massive downpour to wash the fire away instead of Elephant Bathwater, No would be too dangerous for her and give her actual narrative relevance and obstacle to overcome without needing a “get out of jail card” where someone saves her. She is boring and her story is deprived of tension(Make her have an emotional moment crying for Luffy when She gets attacked by Kaido, only to have it resolved by her Making A gag crying face while she holds onto Tama). Utter shit Oda writing, if you couldn’t tell, there was a time I liked Nami. And you ask me why I want Hancock to make a quick exit out this story, gotta quit while your ahead is the old adage. Concerning female characters written by Oda, better to be Short and Sweet.


@Dragon777
@Shanks' de Snitch
@milluki
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Sir Tuna Sandwich II

SII - Sakazuki Incinerate Imu
#39
Except Sabo is regarded as a revolutionary hero flame emperor so that “something would happen to them” ended up being a positive thing. And we do know about Vivi’s outcome, it is stated in ch.1054 that she “mysteriously disappeared” at the same time Cobra was murdered and Who was to boame but Sabo. Meaning Sabo was there with her and considering he came out a hero and alive, along with them successfully fending off the Admirals and freeing Kuma->All signs point to Vivi being ok.
So the only person left is Hancock except why would she have her Bounty mentioned to be incredibly high in the road log if she was captured? Her former bounty is 80 mil from her rookie day, you telling me that is what got her to be mentioned along with Dragon, Rayleigh and 3Bil beri Mihawk and Buggy?

Also the Navy is currently experiencing wave after wave of Bad News post-Wano, Don’t you think that if Hancock was captured that we would’ve had news about it by Now? Capturing a Warlord would be desperately needed positive reception for the Navy but it seems like the Strawhats are just gonna sail off to their next adventure without a care in the world cuz their all caught up with any major current events.

Oda already makes it clear the Warlords fodderized the navy. Aramaki states that the outside world has gone to shit. We have Crocodile who was able to casually sink navy warships that were outside Buggy’s island. Crocodile alone was negging a navy fleet sent to capture a warlord, Hancock negs pretty much every marine fodder just by her looks alone. Not to mention Amazon Lily is a cesspool of sea kings, and the ships are sitting right on top a monster nest. She has her own military. And did you know who’s right around the corner? Rayleigh, the man who swam to Amazon lily half naked all the way from Saobody. Who also is mentioned to have a high bounty waiting to be introduced as depicted by the road log. Hancock’s forces would overkill the Navy fleet considering how pathetic they’ve been shown against Buggy, Croc and Mihawk.

I don’t really care about her eos role especially with how Oda writes. I want her to kick ass and dip out the story. if My post wasn’t clear enough, I want her to have nothing to do with the Strawhats(people she has never met nor cared for) or Luffy(who is part of the reason she’s in this shitfest to begin with and once again isolated Amazon Lily is dragged into another war over other people’s problems). So for the Shippers cuz I know they lurk around when Hancock is in the discussion. Luffy can suck his thumb and sit in his cage fantasizing about saving some other pussy, Nami can get dicked down by the Human condom that her simps can only dream they could get.

God help she do anything worth a damn on her own besides riding off the coattails of other characters to justify her importance to the story.
(Her powerup Zeus is literally another sentient being so Oda could have her lean on someone else to do the dirty work). Onigashima on fire and she couldn’t work up the bright idea(high iq my ass) to head up to the roof where there was a giant thundercloud that Luffy was playing Tarzan with and use it to cause a massive downpour to wash the fire away instead of Elephant Bathwater, No would be too dangerous for her and give her actual narrative relevance and obstacle to overcome without needing a “get out of jail card” where someone saves her. She is boring and her story is deprived of tension(Make her have an emotional moment crying for Luffy when She gets attacked by Kaido, only to have it resolved by her Making A gag crying face while she holds onto Tama). Utter shit Oda writing, if you couldn’t tell, there was a time I liked Nami. And you ask me why I want Hancock to make a quick exit out this story, gotta quit while your ahead is the old adage. Concerning female characters written by Oda, better to be Short and Sweet.


@Dragon777
@Shanks' de Snitch
@milluki
@OnePiss
@AverageNamiEnjoyer
Dude, I always hold Hancock in high regard the mere fact that she was intreduced as a DF eater who take baths should tell you how strong she is unless you a braindead C(ry)oby fan
 
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