Rules Kingdom General Discussion
- Thread starter Patryipe
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Ko Chou was a strong Great General, you're right about that, even though it's somehow still debated in the fandom (go figure), but the element of dishonesty I was hinting at lies in the convenient omission of critical facts and truths around much of the discourse on Eikyuu, Ko Chou and Kan Ki, and willful ignorance regarding their impact.
To be clear, I regard Kan Ki's victory of Ko Chou as the single best feat of generalship thus far (though, contrary to popular belief, there are other contenders), however it has been my experience that much of the fandom simply refuses to acknowledge Hara very clear set up Ko Chou to run a race against time he was destined to lose by virtue of the narrative choice to have the Hi Shin Army arrive half a day early. Just in time to save Ou Hon. Just in time to salvage in the pincer. Just in time for Ko Chou to make that fatal mistake to divert troops before he could figure out Kan Ki's plan.
There's a reason why Hara drew Ko Chou and Ou Sen recalling the Su Bin strategy at the same time. It was a) to highlight Ko Chou's quality as a military commander one last time, and b) to illustrate just how fearsome a figure Kan Ki was to have used it under those circumstances.
Eikyuu was Kan Ki's victory. Indisputably. He threw down the gauntlet as the commanding general and took Ko Chou's head. Yes, it required the cost of some 80,000 troops. Yes, it nearly cost Qin a future 6GG talent and powerful army in Ou Hon and the Gyoku Hou. Yes, Kan Ki's willingness and choices reflected his depravity as much as his talents - but it worked. At the cost of 80,000 men, Kan Ki took in excess of a 100,000 Zhao troops, eliminated their then highest ranking and second best (to their knowledge?) general, and, most critically, ended the year long attrition leading to Bujou and Heiyou.
All of this is true.
But it's also true it wasn't all down to Kan Ki, despite what the discourse is overwhelmingly likely to tell you. I think it's a shame people refuse to acknowledge what Ko Chou was up against. His army essentially fought against three: the Kan Ki Army (comprised of three smaller armies and a handful of units, the Gyoku Hou Army and the Hi Shin Army. Kan Ki, Ou Hon, Shin, Kyou Kai and Ka Ryo Ten all against Ko Chou and Duke Gaku Haku? That's not even counting the likes Rai Do, Zenou, Kan Jou, A Ka Kin, Kyou Rei and Na Ki on the Qin side.
Three 6GG armies led by five 6GG tier talents with talent and firepower to spare. Sure, Ko Chou had the numbers, but come on.
I don't know what you meant by that last sentence so I can't address it.
To be clear, I regard Kan Ki's victory of Ko Chou as the single best feat of generalship thus far (though, contrary to popular belief, there are other contenders), however it has been my experience that much of the fandom simply refuses to acknowledge Hara very clear set up Ko Chou to run a race against time he was destined to lose by virtue of the narrative choice to have the Hi Shin Army arrive half a day early. Just in time to save Ou Hon. Just in time to salvage in the pincer. Just in time for Ko Chou to make that fatal mistake to divert troops before he could figure out Kan Ki's plan.
There's a reason why Hara drew Ko Chou and Ou Sen recalling the Su Bin strategy at the same time. It was a) to highlight Ko Chou's quality as a military commander one last time, and b) to illustrate just how fearsome a figure Kan Ki was to have used it under those circumstances.
Eikyuu was Kan Ki's victory. Indisputably. He threw down the gauntlet as the commanding general and took Ko Chou's head. Yes, it required the cost of some 80,000 troops. Yes, it nearly cost Qin a future 6GG talent and powerful army in Ou Hon and the Gyoku Hou. Yes, Kan Ki's willingness and choices reflected his depravity as much as his talents - but it worked. At the cost of 80,000 men, Kan Ki took in excess of a 100,000 Zhao troops, eliminated their then highest ranking and second best (to their knowledge?) general, and, most critically, ended the year long attrition leading to Bujou and Heiyou.
All of this is true.
But it's also true it wasn't all down to Kan Ki, despite what the discourse is overwhelmingly likely to tell you. I think it's a shame people refuse to acknowledge what Ko Chou was up against. His army essentially fought against three: the Kan Ki Army (comprised of three smaller armies and a handful of units, the Gyoku Hou Army and the Hi Shin Army. Kan Ki, Ou Hon, Shin, Kyou Kai and Ka Ryo Ten all against Ko Chou and Duke Gaku Haku? That's not even counting the likes Rai Do, Zenou, Kan Jou, A Ka Kin, Kyou Rei and Na Ki on the Qin side.
Three 6GG armies led by five 6GG tier talents with talent and firepower to spare. Sure, Ko Chou had the numbers, but come on.
I don't know what you meant by that last sentence so I can't address it.
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I don't really know if I'd use the words "underrated" or "overrated" for him, never think about the guy lol.
Unrelated but when Rien talks about the strenght of the nation's structure and offers the spot of prime minister to an excellent military officer in Karin (basically creating a two spot system)...I wonder if he talked with Kouen first and then later went to Karin. It definitely seems the most logical thing. That meeting with Kouen could have also possible been when Rien was told the quote about Chu's full potential.
Unrelated but when Rien talks about the strenght of the nation's structure and offers the spot of prime minister to an excellent military officer in Karin (basically creating a two spot system)...I wonder if he talked with Kouen first and then later went to Karin. It definitely seems the most logical thing. That meeting with Kouen could have also possible been when Rien was told the quote about Chu's full potential.
Karin is the second in command of the Chu military, and planned for a reason to form the two spot system with her.
Kouen also seems to have lowkey respect for Rien, as they have spoken also in person for solutions to stabilize the political climate in Chu, so they could use the full potential of the land's resources being a superstate.
He also seems to have some top tier information network from the few dialogues we have seen so far.
Got introduced with the assassination of one of the four lords of the warring states.
Kouen also seems to have lowkey respect for Rien, as they have spoken also in person for solutions to stabilize the political climate in Chu, so they could use the full potential of the land's resources being a superstate.
He also seems to have some top tier information network from the few dialogues we have seen so far.
Got introduced with the assassination of one of the four lords of the warring states.
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I'd say he's an inferior version of Shunshinkun, him dying so prematurely was quite a letdown for me. I think he would have been a great EOS villain during the Chu war. Hara had already set him up perfectly at the start of the Coalition war, no need to get rid of him (other than the historical narrative).
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I'd say he's an inferior version of Shunshinkun, him dying so prematurely was quite a letdown for me. I think he would have been a great EOS villain during the Chu war. Hara had already set him up perfectly at the start of the Coalition war, no need to get rid of him (other than the historical narrative).
but sadly his timeline doesn't fit with kingdom timeline .
I wish hara make a spin off of previous generations
If anyone here is interested in kingdom special chapters :
https://mangadex.org/chapter/cb2c3bac-b645-427b-b14c-ff73969f9bee/1
https://mangadex.org/chapter/cb2c3bac-b645-427b-b14c-ff73969f9bee/1
https://cubari.moe/read/imgur/mGyLtMQ/1/1/
Page 1
TL Note: This page just explains the reprinting with Hara’s explanations attached. This chapter is the climax of Dakan Plains, so it’s being used to help promote the movie.
Page 2
Upper Box: In the previous chapter, these two finally met face to face, so here I’m letting the reader feel as if they are present in the moment through these body and face shots. By paralleling both of their panels, you have a sense of them being directly across from each other.
Lower Box: I’m always drawing under the assumption that readers have forgotten the previous week’s chapter. This insert cut is so the readers can get a sense of space by observing the distance between the two generals and the open space between the generals and their soldiers.
Page 3
Following the flow from the previous page, I wanted there to be an impact on the readers when they opened this page, so I wanted to show a wide panorama here. But it was cut for the sake of page balance. Even now when re-reading, I wish there was a more intense sense of them being surrounded by numerous soldiers. Lol
Page 4
Unexpectedly, it’s the strategic Go Kei who starts the fight. In this setting, it’s obvious that Duke Hyou is stronger, but actually, Go Kei has strength from the memories he keeps in his heart. In order to show the unpredictable development of Go Kei putting up a strong fight, I had Go Kei make the first attack.
Page 5
The reader’s expectation is that “Duke Hyou is stronger.†This page serves to make the reader think maybe Duke Hyou settled the duel in a single blow, but it’s actually a brief pause before revealing it was an even hit on both of them.
Page 6
This guy is unexpectedly important! This lieutenant knows Go Kei’s backstory, so because he is here, it shows Go Kei’s spirit and mental fortitude. His name is Jii. Lol
Page 7
I drew a nice picture showing their emotions, right? It took 7 volumes, but at least with close-ups, I was finally able to draw in an “attention grabbing†way.
Page 8
I thought it would be boorish to make Ouki say something here, so I had him remain silent. In contrast to Bihei and the others who are panicking, Ouki understands everything clearly, and even though he understands Go Kei’s spirit, he believes it will ultimately be Duke Hyou’s victory. Tou is the same.
Page 9
Here, I decided to move the point of view over to the Wei army. Go Kei shows his emotionally charged fighting. That frantic energy spreads throughout the Wei army. These aren’t orders being yelled, but yells of support naturally bursting forth. Very loud, excited cheering. This development is meant to give the expectation that there’s a chance for an upset victory over Duke Hyou who always wins through might.
Page 10
The layout of this panel is one I’ve always had in mind when drawing battlefields. The fists of the soldiers closer to the front, the great generals dueling, and the soldiers further back holding their breath in suspense while watching the duel. If there had been space on the page, I wanted to do a bigger spread of this… lol. I also always wanted to add “shaking†to the SFX.
Page 11
Up until this point, I had depicted Go Kei as a “monster of strategy,†but here, I borrowed Shin’s monologue to paint a new picture of Go Kei as someone with true martial strength. I also wanted to give the idea that maybe Duke Hyou isn’t as strong as rumored, and I tried to make the reader wonder who would win.
Page 12
After spending the last 3 pages making the reader unsure of who would win the duel, the old guard of Duke Hyou flip the narrative away from Go Kei. The soldiers of Duke Hyou are steadfastly watching the battle and are sure of their lord’s victory. They aren’t sweating at all. If you look closely, up until this page the only ones sweating while watching the duel are Shin, Heki, etc.
Page 13
I considered Go Kei’s backstory when doing his character design. The main points are his face paint and his scarf. At the time, there was a custom to tattoo criminals faces. So the red lines I put on his face are so you will think they’re tattoos or that they’re covering his tattoos. He didn’t have them in his childhood, so it must have been his punishment as a survivor of a royal family, right… On the other hand, his scarf is made from the hair of fallen members of his family. He wraps it around himself to not forget his hatred.
Page 15
Upper Box: Re-reading this chapter for the first time in a while, I thought “Huh, is this guy Gakurai?†lol
But no, it’s not.
Lower Box: Opposite Go Kei who has a clear backstory is Duke Hyou who is difficult to grasp. It was unexpectedly difficult to make such a character appealing. Because there had to be a compelling reason for his erratic behavior. So here, I took the reverse approach and created an atmosphere around him that makes the reader think “What a mysterious guy.â€
Page 16
This is a small panel, but it’s one of my favorite scenes. If only I could have drawn it better… It doesn’t come across well, but the two of them inscribing an arc while approaching each other is nice, right? It doesn’t come across well, though… lol
Page 18
Right Box: The term “instinctual general†was born through Duke Hyou’s actions, so it didn’t carry much weight yet. So in order to give the term weight, I had him say that he “lost sight of Go Kei’s core.†It’s not quite a feral intuition, but I deliberately showed a perceptiveness about him. You could say I built his character up from this point, or at least he became somewhat more clearly defined as a character.
Left Box: I had an idea that Duke Hyou’s eyes would resemble a wild beast, and I referenced pictures of leopards and tigers when drawing them. He’s linked to “leopardsâ€** lol. His collar and waistband are also leopard patterned.
Page 19
Upper Box: In order to lead into the next issue where I will further develop Go Kei’s backstory, I had the outcome of the duel become unpredictable here. Because I want the readers to be full of excitement and concern while waiting for next week, I drew the Duke Hyou soldier’s sweating for the first time here.
Lower Box: Both of them are making nice faces, huh? It comes across like I really had fun drawing their expressions here lol.
*TL Note: Leopard in Japanese is also “hyou†but the kanji is different. So he’s saying they’re linked by “hyou.†It’s unclear to me if he actually intended that when naming Duke Hyou or if he’s just joking around since he says lol.
TL Note: This page just explains the reprinting with Hara’s explanations attached. This chapter is the climax of Dakan Plains, so it’s being used to help promote the movie.
Page 2
Upper Box: In the previous chapter, these two finally met face to face, so here I’m letting the reader feel as if they are present in the moment through these body and face shots. By paralleling both of their panels, you have a sense of them being directly across from each other.
Lower Box: I’m always drawing under the assumption that readers have forgotten the previous week’s chapter. This insert cut is so the readers can get a sense of space by observing the distance between the two generals and the open space between the generals and their soldiers.
Page 3
Following the flow from the previous page, I wanted there to be an impact on the readers when they opened this page, so I wanted to show a wide panorama here. But it was cut for the sake of page balance. Even now when re-reading, I wish there was a more intense sense of them being surrounded by numerous soldiers. Lol
Page 4
Unexpectedly, it’s the strategic Go Kei who starts the fight. In this setting, it’s obvious that Duke Hyou is stronger, but actually, Go Kei has strength from the memories he keeps in his heart. In order to show the unpredictable development of Go Kei putting up a strong fight, I had Go Kei make the first attack.
Page 5
The reader’s expectation is that “Duke Hyou is stronger.†This page serves to make the reader think maybe Duke Hyou settled the duel in a single blow, but it’s actually a brief pause before revealing it was an even hit on both of them.
Page 6
This guy is unexpectedly important! This lieutenant knows Go Kei’s backstory, so because he is here, it shows Go Kei’s spirit and mental fortitude. His name is Jii. Lol
Page 7
I drew a nice picture showing their emotions, right? It took 7 volumes, but at least with close-ups, I was finally able to draw in an “attention grabbing†way.
Page 8
I thought it would be boorish to make Ouki say something here, so I had him remain silent. In contrast to Bihei and the others who are panicking, Ouki understands everything clearly, and even though he understands Go Kei’s spirit, he believes it will ultimately be Duke Hyou’s victory. Tou is the same.
Page 9
Here, I decided to move the point of view over to the Wei army. Go Kei shows his emotionally charged fighting. That frantic energy spreads throughout the Wei army. These aren’t orders being yelled, but yells of support naturally bursting forth. Very loud, excited cheering. This development is meant to give the expectation that there’s a chance for an upset victory over Duke Hyou who always wins through might.
Page 10
The layout of this panel is one I’ve always had in mind when drawing battlefields. The fists of the soldiers closer to the front, the great generals dueling, and the soldiers further back holding their breath in suspense while watching the duel. If there had been space on the page, I wanted to do a bigger spread of this… lol. I also always wanted to add “shaking†to the SFX.
Page 11
Up until this point, I had depicted Go Kei as a “monster of strategy,†but here, I borrowed Shin’s monologue to paint a new picture of Go Kei as someone with true martial strength. I also wanted to give the idea that maybe Duke Hyou isn’t as strong as rumored, and I tried to make the reader wonder who would win.
Page 12
After spending the last 3 pages making the reader unsure of who would win the duel, the old guard of Duke Hyou flip the narrative away from Go Kei. The soldiers of Duke Hyou are steadfastly watching the battle and are sure of their lord’s victory. They aren’t sweating at all. If you look closely, up until this page the only ones sweating while watching the duel are Shin, Heki, etc.
Page 13
I considered Go Kei’s backstory when doing his character design. The main points are his face paint and his scarf. At the time, there was a custom to tattoo criminals faces. So the red lines I put on his face are so you will think they’re tattoos or that they’re covering his tattoos. He didn’t have them in his childhood, so it must have been his punishment as a survivor of a royal family, right… On the other hand, his scarf is made from the hair of fallen members of his family. He wraps it around himself to not forget his hatred.
Page 15
Upper Box: Re-reading this chapter for the first time in a while, I thought “Huh, is this guy Gakurai?†lol
But no, it’s not.
Lower Box: Opposite Go Kei who has a clear backstory is Duke Hyou who is difficult to grasp. It was unexpectedly difficult to make such a character appealing. Because there had to be a compelling reason for his erratic behavior. So here, I took the reverse approach and created an atmosphere around him that makes the reader think “What a mysterious guy.â€
Page 16
This is a small panel, but it’s one of my favorite scenes. If only I could have drawn it better… It doesn’t come across well, but the two of them inscribing an arc while approaching each other is nice, right? It doesn’t come across well, though… lol
Page 18
Right Box: The term “instinctual general†was born through Duke Hyou’s actions, so it didn’t carry much weight yet. So in order to give the term weight, I had him say that he “lost sight of Go Kei’s core.†It’s not quite a feral intuition, but I deliberately showed a perceptiveness about him. You could say I built his character up from this point, or at least he became somewhat more clearly defined as a character.
Left Box: I had an idea that Duke Hyou’s eyes would resemble a wild beast, and I referenced pictures of leopards and tigers when drawing them. He’s linked to “leopardsâ€** lol. His collar and waistband are also leopard patterned.
Page 19
Upper Box: In order to lead into the next issue where I will further develop Go Kei’s backstory, I had the outcome of the duel become unpredictable here. Because I want the readers to be full of excitement and concern while waiting for next week, I drew the Duke Hyou soldier’s sweating for the first time here.
Lower Box: Both of them are making nice faces, huh? It comes across like I really had fun drawing their expressions here lol.
*TL Note: Leopard in Japanese is also “hyou†but the kanji is different. So he’s saying they’re linked by “hyou.†It’s unclear to me if he actually intended that when naming Duke Hyou or if he’s just joking around since he says lol.
Kanki is really something else. This man seriously deserves Qin Six position with just his unorthodox tactics. First how he took Eikyuu from Koshou and excellently implementing SunBin tactic, later earned Ousen's praising and now Gian.
Now when Riboku cornered him from all sides with heavy numerical advantages, he still played psychological game with him and wasted time to escape while also prepared a plan and separate unit to take Gian like he predicted everything and didn't want to counter Riboku but just want to let him live in his own delusional world.
In this latest chapter, Saki girl saying there always some meaning in Kanki’s action while no one can predict what's he going to do next. Remember Kanki said to Maron that even such disadvantageous situation (like in recent war of Gian) where enemy heavily outnumbered you and surrounds from all sides, there are still numerous ways to counter and win. Even though later he just confidently lured Riboku behind him and took away from Gian.
I know there's still a long way to go with this war but remember there's still Ousen with his huge army watching everything closely.
- He can took Sekirei himself and further reinforce Gian to make solid foothold.
- Or he can just send a unit to control Sekirei and left Gian in the hands of Shin, Mouten and Saki. While it would SHK sending armies to make both of these castle turned into Qin properties.
- Lastly he could directly moved in central region of Zhao, Kantan or its surrounding while just leave Sekirei, Gian and Riboku in the care of Kanki and SHK.
This battle is really turning into something most amazing in the whole kingdom series.
Just some comments and how things were between Duke and Gokei....
Now when Riboku cornered him from all sides with heavy numerical advantages, he still played psychological game with him and wasted time to escape while also prepared a plan and separate unit to take Gian like he predicted everything and didn't want to counter Riboku but just want to let him live in his own delusional world.
In this latest chapter, Saki girl saying there always some meaning in Kanki’s action while no one can predict what's he going to do next. Remember Kanki said to Maron that even such disadvantageous situation (like in recent war of Gian) where enemy heavily outnumbered you and surrounds from all sides, there are still numerous ways to counter and win. Even though later he just confidently lured Riboku behind him and took away from Gian.
I know there's still a long way to go with this war but remember there's still Ousen with his huge army watching everything closely.
- He can took Sekirei himself and further reinforce Gian to make solid foothold.
- Or he can just send a unit to control Sekirei and left Gian in the hands of Shin, Mouten and Saki. While it would SHK sending armies to make both of these castle turned into Qin properties.
- Lastly he could directly moved in central region of Zhao, Kantan or its surrounding while just leave Sekirei, Gian and Riboku in the care of Kanki and SHK.
This battle is really turning into something most amazing in the whole kingdom series.
Just some comments and how things were between Duke and Gokei....