General & Others Vegapunk is a tontatta since Oda loves plagiarizing American fiction

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#21
I love Naruto

But ffs stop pushing the "One piece is trash" agenda just to wank Naruto.

:lusalty:
Nan nah nah my g. Now it's the best time to do it.

One Piece apes for years been saying this that about Kishi fucking up. Now Oda is proven to be even bigger fraud than Kishi and deserves all negative attention his ape fans gave to other mangas.
 
#22
  1. Big Mom WCI ----> Alice In Wonderland
  2. Ancient Weapons -----> Greek Mythology
  3. Wano lost city -----> Atlantis
  4. Luffy Tune Force -----> Tom and Jerry
List goes on and on and yet you claim "One piece isn't a collection of other people's work"? And like I said before I am not going to get into a semantics argument with you over what the definition of plagiarism is.

Can I ask you a question? Was Naruto beginning a copy of HxH?
I haven't read Naruto nor HxH, I can't answer your question.

As for your examples, they're either explicit references Oda consciously wanted to work and transform with no copying intention (this can be a creative process too), superficial inspirations (the Ancient Weapons share their names with Greek gods? What a plagiarism...! I hope someone goes after the bastards who named the planets after Roman entities) or more than likely a shared source (again, Atlantis like the Disney movie? Do you really think that's somehow an original idea? Or you mean the popular myth that nobody owns?).

It's not a semantic argument. It's just that you clearly aren't a creator, nor know anything about building an artistic work, nor have the cultural perspective to discuss this topic properly. On top of ignoring what plagiarism requires.

No you don't understand, what he means with Atlantis is that fishman island is a copy of the myth of atlantis. Just like he said that Oda "copies" greek mithology, probably referring to impel down.
This situation is starting to remind me of a guy who accused Walking Dead of plagiarizing Final Fantasy because both had a city called Alexandria.
 
#23
  1. Big Mom WCI ----> Alice In Wonderland
  2. Ancient Weapons -----> Greek Mythology
  3. Wano lost city -----> Atlantis
  4. Luffy Tune Force -----> Tom and Jerry
List goes on and on and yet you claim "One piece isn't a collection of other people's work"? And like I said before I am not going to get into a semantics argument with you over what the definition of plagiarism is.

Can I ask you a question? Was Naruto beginning a copy of HxH?
You do know Alice in Wonderland isn't Disney's original concept, nor do they own the rights to the material they based their own movie off of, right?

The Book "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Caroll is public domain, and Disney took the concept of the book, and turned it into a movie.

They've actually done this with countless other public works.
 
#24
I haven't read Naruto nor HxH, I can't answer your question.

As for your examples, they're either explicit references Oda consciously wanted to work and transform with no copying intention (this can be a creative process too), superficial inspirations (the Ancient Weapons share their names with Greek gods? What a plagiarism...! I hope someone goes after the bastards who named the planets after Roman entities) or more than likely a shared source (again, Atlantis like the Disney movie? Do you really think that's somehow an original idea?).

It's not a semantic argument. It's just that you clearly aren't a creator, nor know anything about building an artistic work, nor have the cultural perspective to discuss this topic properly. On top of ignoring what plagiarism requires..
Dude, you keep arguing over semantics. It is 100% a semantics argument because you keep using the technical definition of plagiarism when I already gave you my definition of what I meant.

"Without copying intention" it doesn't matter what his intentions are, it is still copying. He can have all the good intentions he wants that doesn't mean he didn't copy those ideas. You can use all the pretty words you want to describe Oda's copying i.e. "inspiration", "creative process", etc but it is still copying. Dude has no creativity and reuses the same formula every arc and then copies other original works and puts it into his story. If you don't consider that copying and instead "inspiration" then by all means believe what you want, but for me, that is copying.

Yes the old argument, "you are not an author therefore you have no right to discuss this topic".
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You do know Alice in Wonderland isn't Disney's original concept, nor do they own the rights to the material they based their own movie off of, right?

The Book "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Caroll is public domain, and Disney took the concept of the book, and turned it into a movie.

They've actually done this with countless other public works.
It doesn't matter if it were Disney original concept or not. Disney copies all the time but that doesn't mean it is okay for other authors to copy the copier.
 
#25
Dude, you keep arguing over semantics. It is 100% a semantics argument because you keep using the technical definition of plagiarism when I already gave you my definition of what I meant.
Yeah, I use the "technical definition of plagiarism" because, unlike you who are afraid of "arguing over semantics", semantics are fundamental to distinguish what is or isn't plagiarism. Which, again, is why homage, reference, adaptation, archetype, satire... and plagiarism are very different things.

"Without copying intention" it doesn't matter what his intentions are, it is still copying. He can have all the good intentions he wants that doesn't mean he didn't copy those ideas. You can use all the pretty words you want to describe Oda's copying i.e. "inspiration", "creative process", etc but it is still copying. Dude has no creativity and reuses the same formula every arc and then copies other original works and puts it into his story. If you don't consider that copying then by all means believe what you want, but for me, that is copying.
Intentions do matter because one thing is to steal the work from another author (commonly less known) for your whole benefit with the intention of passing it as your own and gain credit from it while adding nothing of your creative personality; and other things are making obvious references just for the sake of it, commonly to popularly known models that will never pass as yours and the whole value of putting them into your work is the reference by itself (since you seem to like movies for children, is Encanto plagiarizing Gabo by using yellow butterflies?); or reformulating such popular models by using them as conceptual domains to structure your own creative process (which is what Oda mainly does; he isn't plagiarizing Hercule Poirot but taking it as a concept he can connect with other references in order to produce something new like Baron Tamago); or sharing your artistic interpretation of something conceived by another author because this way you can show it form a different perspective, add new layers to it, etc. (did Tolkien plagiarize Stevenson? Did Molière plagiarize Plautus?); or using folklore, shared myths, archetypes... in order to build your work... (is every blind sage a copy? Every dark evil a copy? Every small genius a copy?).

You seem to be missing the fact that Oda obviously puts such references into his work because he consciously, publicly wants to. The only reason why you find references to Alice in Whole Cake is because Oda explicitly wants to make a reference to Alice that the reader will catch (and most of the times with a creative twist of his own); and that's not plagiarism under any actual, useful definition we may use.

Yes the old argument, "you are not an author therefore you have no right to discuss this topic".
Don't confus my argument with an special pleading. In this case, being an author plus having cultural references beyond Disney does give you profound perspective on how the creative process truly works. Good look finding something that doesn't fit your concept of plagiarism.
 
#26
Yeah, I use the "technical definition of plagiarism" because, unlike you who are afraid of "arguing over semantics", semantics are fundamental to distinguish what is or isn't plagiarism. Which, again, is why homage, reference, adaptation, archetype, satire... and plagiarism are very different things.
And I already established my definition of what I meant and you continue to debate over the technical semantics. I am not going to argue over semantics.

You seem to be missing the fact that Oda obviously puts such references into his work because he consciously, publicly wants to. The only reason why you find references to Alice in Whole Cake is because Oda explicitly wants to make a reference to Alice that the reader will catch (and most of the times with a creative twist of his own); and that's not plagiarism under any actual, useful definition we may use.
I see it different than you. He uses "references" because he is not creative and needs to copy other people's work to keep his story interesting. Let us just agree to disagree.

If Vegapunk does turn out to be a tontatta then my point of Oda copying other people's work is unequivocally true. Hopefully VP gets revealed next chapter.
 
#27
  1. Big Mom WCI ----> Alice In Wonderland
  2. Ancient Weapons -----> Greek Mythology
  3. Wano lost city -----> Atlantis
  4. Luffy Tune Force -----> Tom and Jerry
List goes on and on and yet you claim "One piece isn't a collection of other people's work"? And like I said before I am not going to get into a semantics argument with you over what the definition of plagiarism is.

Can I ask you a question? Was Naruto beginning a copy of HxH?
By that logic Naruto plagiarized Japanese folklore
 
#28
I see it different than you. He uses "references" because he is not creative and needs to copy other people's work to keep his story interesting. Let us just agree to disagree.

If Vegapunk does turn out to be a tontatta then my point of Oda copying other people's work is unequivocally true. Hopefully VP gets revealed next chapter.
We know for a fact he can be creative if he wants to. Authors, including some of the best in history, have put references to other people's work in their own pieces (was Victor Hugo uncreative too?) just for the sake of doing it or, even more commonly, to give them a personal twist. It's obvious Oda is consciously putting many references in One Piece because he wants to give them his touch and the readers to identify them; especially because most of the times they are very well known works that nobody with a little culture will miss (which, by the way, is another common trait of plagiarism: taking advantage of a position of power, authority, etc. to steal another work while "ostracising" it as a consequence; in Oda's case, he isn't ostracising anything because he makes references to very well-known works). If you went and obligued Oda to stop putting references to other works in his own story he'd just cluelessly ask you why if he likes to homage them and say that creatively transforming them is the whole purpose of putting the references in the first place. And I bet he'd be nicer than other authors who would just laugh at your ignorance on how the artistic process truly operates.

I'll ask you a simple question: if you were an author who wants to make references to the things he likes, would you prevent yourself from doing it, would you boicot your own creative enjoyment, just to avoid what you miscall "plagiarism"? Even though most readers would easily understand that you aren't hiding such references nor trying to pass them as your own? Even though the value of part of your work would lie on redefining such references in a creative way, therefore adding new layers to them? And if you would, where would you draw the line? Would you avoid myths, folklore, archetypes, symbols, primary metaphors...?

If Vegapunk turns out to be a dwarf you will have no point still because nobody owns the "small but smart" archetype; whether it's Ben 10, Jimmy Neutron, Dexter's Laboratory, Pinky and the Brain, The Incredibles, Star Wars or whatever. You're actively rejecting one of the most beautiful things of humanity, which is shared codes, cultures and symbols, just because you don't know what plagiarism is. Under your way of thought we'd be missing most if not all of artistic works.
 
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#32
We know for a fact he can be creative if he wants to.
He isn't creative, he uses the same formula every damn arc.

I'll ask you a simple question: if you were an author who wants to make references to the things he likes, would you prevent yourself from doing it, would you boicot your own creative enjoyment, just to avoid what you miscall "plagiarism"? Even though most readers would easily understand that you aren't hiding such references nor trying to pass them as your own? Even though the value of part of your work would lie on redefining such references in a creative way, therefore adding new layers to them? And if you would, where would you draw the line? Would you avoid myths, folklore, archetypes, symbols, primary metaphors...?
No of course I wouldn't however my story wouldn't just rely on "using references" all the damn time. Before I didn't even care about Oda using references all the time until Oda told us the backstory of Wano's lost city and it was just a copy of Plato's Atlantis. That crossed the line for me.

If Vegapunk turns out to be a dwarf you will have no point still because nobody owns the "small but smart" archetype; whether it's Ben 10, Jimmy Neutron, Dexter's Laboratory, Pinky and the Brain, The Incredibles, Star Wars or whatever. You're actively rejecting one of the most beautiful things of humanity, which is shared codes, cultures and symbols, just because you don't know what plagiarism is. Under your way of thought we'd be missing most if not all of artistic works.
I will have my point because I arrived at the conclusion that VP is a tontatta solely based off the premise that Oda likes to copy American fiction. Sure it can be a coincidence or in your words "shared culture" but based off all my other examples I provided the "coincidences" start turning into copying. Also, like I already said a million times before I am fine with author's using references HOWEVER not all the time which Oda does. There is a limit, your story can't be just you relying on references all the damn time, at some point you have to think of ideas yourself instead of copying Tom and Jerry and hiding behind that as "shared culture".
 
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#33
He isn't creative, he uses the same formula every damn arc.



No of course I wouldn't however my story wouldn't just rely on "using references" all the damn time. Before I didn't even care about Oda using references all the time until Oda told us the backstory of Wano's lost city and it was just a copy of Plato's Atlantis. That crossed the line for me.



I will have my point because I arrived at the conclusion that VP is a tontatta solely based off the premise that Oda likes to copy American fiction. Sure it can be a coincidence or in your words "shared culture" but based off all my other examples I provided the "coincidences" start turning into copying. Also, like I already said a million times before I am fine with author's using references HOWEVER not all the time which Oda does. There is a limit, your story can't be just you relying on references all the damn time, at some point you have to think of ideas yourself instead of copying Tom and Jerry and hiding behind that as "shared culture".
But dude you’re a Naruto stan and Naruto relies on references more than One Piece does
 
#34
Plagiarise Atlantis? A 3k+ Yr old myth?


Alice in Wonderland
Plagiarise AiW, perhaps the most famous and most influential book in the English canon?







You can Plagiarise mythsfleetwat


Who's he plagiarising here? Warner Bros? William Hanna & Joseph Barbera? Walt Disney? Most cartoons made since, up until the 1980s?

I guess he also plagiarised el dorado as well. I guess naruto plagiarised japanese mythology and concepts, since the OP thinks that's possible somehow

Though plagiarism might help naruto. Could've avoided that horribly written Obito "best guy" scene
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Naruto is mid
 
#35
He isn't creative, he uses the same formula every damn arc.
It's not true and most stories does it
JJBA, Hokuto no Ken, Berserk, Dragon ball, detective Conan and so on... You can also had sports manga
Yet they are still masterpiece

You can use the same formula again and again and still be creative. Creativity is in details.
 
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