Society is sexist towards men

Gol D. Roger

ȶɦɛ քɨʀǟȶɛ ӄɨռɢ
#61
I think this guy does the best job at it:

The guy took a bunch of traits that can be generally observed in both genders and is associating them with men while also saying they're not inherently male behaviors. It's not toxic masculinity unless it's only exhibited in men—it's just toxic behavior. These aren't even traits that are observed in most men. Most men aren't bullies; most men don't force themselves on women like the one in his example; most men don't think it's okay to slap the butts of their women in public.

He's taking bad behaviors observed in a small portion of men(and women) and attributing that to the whole male gender painting us as the bad guys of society while saying we're not bad guys. That's hardly logical. He also tried to portray being competent as a toxic trait. That's wrong on many levels.
 
#62
The guy took a bunch of traits that can be generally observed in both genders and is associating them with men while also saying they're not inherently male behaviors.
Like he said, it's not male only behavior, toxic masculinity is a set of behavior related to MASCULINITY

These aren't even traits that are observed in most men
Nobody is saying that. Even he is saying "in some men".


Most men aren't bullies
Not all men hm...?
No, all men are not bully and that's not the point. The point is to establish that there is a system empowering this type of behavior.

Stop taking it personnaly, it's not about you.

He also tried to portray being competent as a toxic trait
Quote me the minuting please.


most men don't force themselves on women like the one in his example; most men don't think it's okay to slap the butts of their women in public
Like he said, that's an over exagerated example meant for you to understand the concept..

The definition is clear enough.

But you missed the point with your "not all man" rant.
 

AL sama

Red Haired
#63
The guy took a bunch of traits that can be generally observed in both genders and is associating them with men while also saying they're not inherently male behaviors. It's not toxic masculinity unless it's only exhibited in men—it's just toxic behavior. These aren't even traits that are observed in most men. Most men aren't bullies; most men don't force themselves on women like the one in his example; most men don't think it's okay to slap the butts of their women in public.

He's taking bad behaviors observed in a small portion of men(and women) and attributing that to the whole male gender painting us as the bad guys of society while saying we're not bad guys. That's hardly logical. He also tried to portray being competent as a toxic trait. That's wrong on many levels.
that guy is either dumb or trying to mislead people
 

Gol D. Roger

ȶɦɛ քɨʀǟȶɛ ӄɨռɢ
#68
Like he said, it's not male only behavior, toxic masculinity is a set of behavior related to MASCULINITY
Nobody is saying that. Even he is saying "in some men".
Not all men hm...?
No, all men are not bully and that's not the point. The point is to establish that there is a system empowering this type of behavior.
Stop taking it personnaly, it's not about you.
Quote me the minuting please.
Like he said, that's an over exagerated example meant for you to understand the concept..
The definition is clear enough.
But you missed the point with your "not all man" rant.
If you read carefully, I clearly said that's what he's saying. He's saying it's male behavior while also saying it's not observed in most men, which makes it a direct contradiction. Acknowledging it doesn't make his point more logical or true. I also clearly mentioned that the behavioral traits he mentioned are not only observed in a tiny proportion of men but they're also observed in women. How is it male behavior when it's not even predominantly observed in most men? It's not.

It's hardly appropriate that we're associating it with general male behavior—which is what masculinity is if you don't know the definition—and using it as a weapon to demonize the male gender as a whole. What you call toxic masculinity is just toxic behavior. We're just adding fancy names to them to attack the people we don't like.

Questioning your beliefs doesn't make my arguments a rant. If you get offended just because someone questioned your belief system, then there is something wrong with what you stand up for. I thought you'd be more open-minded as you seem to project yourself as someone progressive. I didn't expect this. I won't bother again Ig.
 

AL sama

Red Haired
#72
If you read carefully, I clearly said that's what he's saying. He's saying it's male behavior while also saying it's not observed in most men, which makes it a direct contradiction. Acknowledging it doesn't make his point more logical or true. I also clearly mentioned that the behavioral traits he mentioned are not only observed in a tiny proportion of men but they're also observed in women. How is it male behavior when it's not even predominantly observed in most men? It's not.

It's hardly appropriate that we're associating it with general male behavior—which is what masculinity is if you don't know the definition—and using it as a weapon to demonize the male gender as a whole. What you call toxic masculinity is just toxic behavior. We're just adding fancy names to them to attack the people we don't like.

Questioning your beliefs doesn't make my arguments a rant. If you get offended just because someone questioned your belief system, then there is something wrong with what you stand up for. I thought you'd be more open-minded as you seem to project yourself as someone progressive. I didn't expect this. I won't bother again Ig.
english lesson 6597
 
#75
He's saying it's male behavior while also saying it's not observed in most men, which makes it a direct contradiction
It's not, it IS a male behavior, which is not observed in most male. There is nothing complicated with that sentence. Read it again. In short, this is a behavior depicted by mostly men but not all the men. Simple.


How is it male behavior when it's not even predominantly observed in most men?
Because, again, it is observed in male in the majority, if not almost entierely.


It's hardly appropriate that we're associating it with general male behavior—which is what masculinity is if you don't know the definition—and using it as a weapon to demonize the male gender as a whole.
If you think we are demonizing male gender you completely missed the point. We are targetting TOXIC BEHAVIORS. Not the men or the male gender. You are completely out of context here.

You didn't understand the video at all... Which is sad really because it's quite brilliant.


What you call toxic masculinity is just toxic behavior
No. It's toxic behavior based on a toxic point of view of masculinity and toxic behavior observed with the male-gender. Again, you missed the point because you are taking the video as an attack instead of listening to the critic.

Questioning your beliefs doesn't make my arguments a rant
You are attacking the argumentation based on a missinterpretation, I take that as a rant. Sorry.


If you get offended just because someone questioned your belief system, then there is something wrong with what you stand up for.
I'm not, what I find problematic, is that instead of looking at the actual content, you generalize said content as an attack against male gender. Which is a common critic thrown to feminists who want to question masculinities. This is a complete missunderstanding - yet logical - interpretation of the content.

Indeed.. the first instinct when we see one of our (or relative) behavior in the context of a critic of said behavior, is to take offense that our identity is being attacked as a whole.

That is completely missing the point of this video which yet clearly states that what is concerning toxic masculinity is not the men, but the toxic behavior SOME of those men depict.
 
#79
It begins here..
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/MMBR.00018-19

It ends on thing like this..
https://www.statnews.com/2019/12/10/patriarchy-fading-science-then-i-saw-it-in-the-data/

Science is far from perfect concerning systematic sexism

Tho Im not a scientist, I'm sure you will find a lot of ressource with their help.
When I said epistemology I didn't mean : which gender is more published. I was more into : critical toward methodology.

There might be other reasons as to why women aren't as published as men. Reasons that don't follow the almighty theory of patriarchy.


Mentionning the fact that you are fast to criticize what you are not willing to watch.
Because it's a youtube-channel about feminism in movies made by a random guy. He just made a lot of views. He's indeed trying to quote north-american works which I ignore the relevance but goddamn how I hate youtube video essays. It makes people lazy to read actual books. I mean, this is how people educate themselves nowadays I guess.
 
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