General & Others No seriously, One Piece’s world building is pretty bad

[EmperorKinyagi]

A few days ago, I made this (somewhat trolling) thread asking if any manga had worse world building than One Piece.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ave-worse-worldbuilding-than-one-piece.35632/

Ok. There are series with worse world building than One Piece. Of course I don’t actually think that there aren’t. This was bait.

However, I seriously was trying to open people’s eyes to the weird cognitive dissonance that One Piece’s world building is impeccable, amazing, and unquestionably good. I genuinely think a big reason for this thinking is people being gaslighted by reviews they’ve seen or opinions they’ve heard from others.

So I’m here to set the record straight.

One Piece’s world building is blatantly flawed and “just ok” at best.

The power system (yes, this is world building) is objectively bad. The balance of powers (a central defining aspect of the political and military structure of the world) is poorly explained to the point where we have been arguing about it for a decade. Most of the “deep lore” (like Vegapunk’s explanation of the origin of fruits, void century stuff, Joyboy, etc) is vague to where you can’t tell if it’s actually interesting or if the reveals will actually be good (a clever move by Oda). And there’s a dozen or so more problems, these ones are just the immediately obvious ones.

Breadth of world =/= good world building, and the sooner people accept this, the better.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

OP world building isn't bad by any means but it's not the best either.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

What do you dislike about it the most—power levels not included.

 

[Nikuzi]

its not bad

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

What do you dislike about it the most—power levels not included.

The actual structure of the world being unclear.

The fact that the actual political and military structure of the world is vague at best.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022

its not bad

Delusional.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

The actual structure of the world being unclear.

The fact that the actual political and military structure of the world is vague at best.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022

Delusional.

How is it vague? The vast majority of the World is a part of the World Government, be it as direct members or territories, and the Marines are the main armed forces of the WG, with member nations having their own guard troops.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I mean the actual layout of the world has been hella built and explained.

How does the OP world work?
1. The world is typically run by the World Government and some unaffiliated countries.
2. Countries affiliated with the World government pay “heavenly tribute” a high tax that basically ensures the country is under the protection of the navy
3. The world government is run by the celestial dragons, a race of individuals who are all descendants of 19 distinct families who started the world government.
4. Above them is the gorosei, 5 celestial dragons who work as the executive branch of the world government. Doling out punishment and starting wars.
5. Along with that the WG hosts a reverie that serves as a legislative branch where the representatives of the many nations connected to the world government can discuss the state of the world and change aspects of the world government.
6. Secretly, the Gorosei are only the face of Imu, the true King of the World Government where he gives the Gorosei orders.

Why is the world government under power?
1. The world government runs the largest military in the world.
2. This military is run by Commander in Chief Kong who gets direct orders from the Gorosei. He is in charge of the intelligence agencies CP 1-9 (basically the CIA of the world government) as well as the Marines.
3. The marines are mostly autonomous under the fleet admiral; however when given an order from Kong and therefore the Gorosei they must comply.
4. Beyond that there’s CP0 who is the only military asset not under Kongs jurisdiction as they serve the gorosei solely.

Then there’s the physical make up of the world:
1. The OP world is separated into four major oceans (the four blues) as well as a grand line which runs 45 degrees in a circle throughout the world. This intersects with the red line, a large elevated line that bisects the world and intersects the grand line at two major locations: Mariejoa (Fishman Island) and Reverse Mountain
2. To enter the grand line you must do so through Reverse Mountain or enter through one of two straights that are used as a breeding ground for sea monsters that dwarf even giants (Calm belts)

And there’s more…

Saying OP doesn’t explain their world well is kinda just factually wrong.

 

[Junatic]

I mean the actual layout of the world has been hella built and explained.

How does the OP world work?
1. The world is typically run by the World Government and some unaffiliated countries.
2. Countries affiliated with the World government pay “heavenly tribute” a high tax that basically ensures the country is under the protection of the navy
3. The world government is run by the celestial dragons, a race of individuals who are all descendants of 19 distinct families who started the world government.
4. Above them is the gorosei, 5 celestial dragons who work as the executive branch of the world government. Doling out punishment and starting wars.
5. Along with that the WG hosts a reverie that serves as a legislative branch where the representatives of the many nations connected to the world government can discuss the state of the world and change aspects of the world government.
6. Secretly, the Gorosei are only the face of Imu, the true King of the World Government where he gives the Gorosei orders.

Why is the world government under power?
1. The world government runs the largest military in the world.
2. This military is run by Commander in Chief Kong who gets direct orders from the Gorosei. He is in charge of the intelligence agencies CP 1-9 (basically the CIA of the world government) as well as the Marines.
3. The marines are mostly autonomous under the fleet admiral; however when given an order from Kong and therefore the Gorosei they must comply.
4. Beyond that there’s CP0 who is the only military asset not under Kongs jurisdiction as they serve the gorosei solely.

Then there’s the physical make up of the world:
1. The OP world is separated into four major oceans (the four blues) as well as a grand line which runs 45 degrees in a circle throughout the world. This intersects with the red line, a large elevated line that bisects the world and intersects the grand line at two major locations: Mariejoa (Fishman Island) and Reverse Mountain
2. To enter the grand line you must do so through Reverse Mountain or enter through one of two straights that are used as a breeding ground for sea monsters that dwarf even giants (Calm belts)

And there’s more…

Saying OP doesn’t explain their world well is kinda just factually wrong.

Explainin how the world works is the bare minimum. Addin many rules that don't contractict each other's the real challenge and what rly decides whether the worldbuilding's good.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Explainin how the world works is the bare minimum. Addin many rules that don't contractict each other's the real challenge and what rly decides whether the worldbuilding's good.

What rules contradict each other? And the bare minimum 90% of manga don’t even explain the politics of a world

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

It doesn't really matter much nowadays, since they're long gone from it, but I wonder if there is like an "Admiral" for each Blue Sea fleet? Or whatever title best suited for it.

 

[Junatic]

What rules contradict each other? And the bare minimum 90% of manga don’t even explain the politics of a world

It all depends to what's needed for the story that's told. A world like OP's needs politics to be explained, some other worlds won't need that at all.

There are many rules that contradict each other. For example, the way haki works: every time smth new abt haki's revealed, it's inconsistent with what was seen earlier. The concept of haki itself's inconsistent with past events like Marineford, Ace vs Smoker, BB stating he could touch Ace because of his DF and not because of haki, etc.

Another example's the Nika DF and the fact the Gorosei never put two and two together abt Luffy from the start. Or DFs that were supposed to be rare but everyone and their mother has one. Or random Zoan using awakening in ID while Yonko chars can't. Or the 5 flying DFs when there are way more than that. Ton of examples.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

It all depends to what's needed for the story that's told. A world like OP's needs politics to be explained, some other worlds won't need that at all.

There are many rules that contradict each other. For example, the way haki works: every time smth new abt haki's revealed, it's inconsistent with what was seen earlier. The concept of haki itself's inconsistent with past event like Marineford, Ace vs Smoker, BB stating he could touch Ace because of his DF and not because of haki, etc.

Another example's the Nika DF and the fact the Gorosei never put two and two together from the start. Or the DFs that were supposed to be rare but everyone and their mother has one. Or random Zoan using awakening in ID while Yonko chars can't. Or the 5 flying DFs when there are way more than that. Ton of examples.

Haki isn’t world building? That’s power set.

And how would the Gorosei put two and two together? The gorosei didn’t know the existence of the Nika devil fruit until recently either as the name was erased?

Devil fruits were never called rare. In fact it’s the opposite Stated back in East Blue by Krieg.

The zoan awakening was literally explained by Vegapunk and Kaido.

Idk why anyone believed pell, how was He supposed to know every devil fruit?

Your examples aren’t examples of bad world building, hell they aren’t even inconsistencies.

 

[Junatic]

Haki isn’t world building? That’s power set.

And how would the Gorosei put two and two together? The gorosei didn’t know the existence of the Nika devil fruit until recently either as the name was erased?

Devil fruits were never called rare. In fact it’s the opposite Stated back in East Blue by Krieg.

The zoan awakening was literally explained by Vegapunk and Kaido.

Idk why anyone believed pell, how was He supposed to know every devil fruit?

Your examples aren’t examples of bad world building, hell they aren’t even inconsistencies.

Ofc haki's part of worldbuilding. Power system's part of worldbuilding, just like the magic system in a fantasy novel's part of worldbuilding. It's part of the rules set to make the world feel real.

When was it stated the Gorosei didn't know about Nika until recently? Who's Who and a random ID guard knew about Nika many years ago yet the Gorosei only found out recently?

DFs were said to be rare at some point. They're supposed to be common only in GL, to the point where a lot of ppl think they're a myth despite several famous pirates havin one.

What was said abt Zoan awakening that allows to make sense out of random Zoan users in ID havin it but not Yonko chars?

I doubt Oda cared about Pell's opinion, he used him to give lore info but contradicted himself later.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Ofc haki's part of worldbuilding. Power system's part of worldbuilding, just like the magic system in a fantasy novel's part of worldbuilding. It's part of the rules set to make the world feel real.

When was it stated the Gorosei didn't know about Nika until recently? Who's Who and a random ID guard knew about Nika many years ago yet the Gorosei only found out recently?

What was said abt Zoan awakening that allows to make sense out of random Zoan users in ID havin it but not Yonko chars?

I doubt Oda cared about Pell's opinion, he used him to give lore info but contradicted himself later.

1. The creation of a power system is world building, the powers it gives are not imo.

2. The gorosei said outright that the WG of the past erased the name of the fruit. They merely knew Nika was a god of the past not that it was luffys devil fruit until very recently. (Until they talked to Imu and Shanks)

3. Kaido said awakening is when a users mind and body catch up to their devil fruit. Vegapunk says that the zoan awakenings he’s seen, the animals personality completely takes over the user. So basically those were people who’s minds couldn’t handle the awakening.

 

[Onepiecedying]

Yes
One piece world building is a mess
It can be the best tho, because the worldbuilding kinda unique and fun actually, we have this devil fruit, haki, corrupt government, many culture with a cool lore, a diffrent race
But
if only its handle with care, it will be the best world building in any shonen history
But it not handle so well.
1. Too much lore
2. plot armor who come up of nowhere
3. japanese culture everywhere even tho in that world they already have wano country
4. Female body figures I mean who look like that?? Where they organ can fit in in body like that
5. Stupid/ cheap explanation about the lore

 

[iMaRS_hr]

A few days ago, I made this (somewhat trolling) thread asking if any manga had worse world building than One Piece.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ave-worse-worldbuilding-than-one-piece.35632/

Ok. There are series with worse world building than One Piece. Of course I don’t actually think that there aren’t. This was bait.

However, I seriously was trying to open people’s eyes to the weird cognitive dissonance that One Piece’s world building is impeccable, amazing, and unquestionably good. I genuinely think a big reason for this thinking is people being gaslighted by reviews they’ve seen or opinions they’ve heard from others.

So I’m here to set the record straight.

One Piece’s world building is blatantly flawed and “just ok” at best.

The power system (yes, this is world building) is objectively bad. The balance of powers (a central defining aspect of the political and military structure of the world) is poorly explained to the point where we have been arguing about it for a decade. Most of the “deep lore” (like Vegapunk’s explanation of the origin of fruits, void century stuff, Joyboy, etc) is vague to where you can’t tell if it’s actually interesting or if the reveals will actually be good (a clever move by Oda). And there’s a dozen or so more problems, these ones are just the immediately obvious ones.

Breadth of world =/= good world building, and the sooner people accept this, the better.

L

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022

Yes
One piece world building is a mess
It can be the best tho, because the worldbuilding kinda unique and fun actually, we have this devil fruit, haki, corrupt government, many culture with a cool lore, a diffrent race
But
if only its handle with care, it will be the best world building in any shonen history
But it not handle so well.
1. Too much lore
2. plot armor who come up of nowhere
3. japanese culture everywhere even tho in that world they already have wano country
4. Female body figures I mean who look like that?? Where they organ can fit in in body like that
5. Stupid/ cheap explanation about the lore

1. how is too much lore a problem?
2. that doesn't have anything to do with world building
3. Wano is bases on Japan but it's not the only country, just like Water 7 is based on Italy and Dressrosa is based on Spain
4. again, nothing to do with world building, that's just oda's way of drawing women
5. debatable

 

[Junatic]

1. The creation of a power system is world building, the powers it gives are not imo.

2. The gorosei said outright that the WG of the past erased the name of the fruit. They merely knew Nika was a god of the past not that it was luffys devil fruit until very recently. (Until they talked to Imu and Shanks)

3. Kaido said awakening is when a users mind and body catch up to their devil fruit. Vegapunk says that the zoan awakenings he’s seen, the animals personality completely takes over the user. So basically those were people who’s minds couldn’t handle the awakening.

Wdym ? Haki's a power system and each new rule added's part of the creation process. Worldbuilding's not just a thing in the beginning, it's a long term, evolutive process throughout a whole story.

How do we know that? Was never stated or implied. Why would it take so long for Imu to spill the beans?

Zoan awakening thing still makes little sense when Lucci has it and Kaido doesn't. And it doesn't explain why some Paramecia users like Doffy, Kata, Law and Kid have it but BM doesn't. The Yonko bein at the apex of their powers and the strongest chars in the verse while not havin full mastery of their DF makes little sense, esp when multiple weaker chars do.

 

[Lord fifth]

Zoan awakening thing still makes little sense when Lucci has it and Kaido doesn't. And it doesn't explain why some Paramecia users like Doffy, Kata, Law and Kid have it but BM doesn't

Why?
Like geniuenly, why is this bad world building?

Awakening is not a requirement for the strongest character, never has been stated to be,never has been implied to be.

People expected the yonku to have it because strong characters should?

The requirements for awakening are not strengh realted, if they were I would agree with you, but the requirements for awkaneing has been stated to be when the mind catches up with powers of the fruit.


A very veuage requirements that is very flexible, kaido who focuses on haki could have never awakened it so he never needed to push his fruit to it's limit.

The same with big mom who was op since birth.

Tldr:one piece isn't a video game, top tier characters don't min max their every skill.

Plus awkaneing isn't strengh related(as in the requirement for achieving it isn't) so who has it or not isn't related to strengh just mastery of df.

 

[Weeman]

It lacks pizzazz

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Wdym ? Haki's a power system and each new rule added's part of the creation process. Worldbuilding's not just a thing in the beginning, it's a long term, evolutive process throughout a whole story.

How do we know that? Was never stated or implied. Why would it take so long for Imu to spill the beans?

Zoan awakening thing still makes little sense when Lucci has it and Kaido doesn't. And it doesn't explain why some Paramecia users like Doffy, Kata, Law and Kid have it but BM doesn't. The Yonko bein at the apex of their powers and the strongest chars in the verse while not havin full mastery of their DF makes little sense, esp when multiple weaker chars do.

Why do the emperors not having awakening not make sense to you? We’ve seen that they have straight up never needed to train their devil fruits or push their DF powers to their limits because Kaido and Big Mom were born as monsters.

They have naturally powerful haki and unnaturally strong bodies. They aren’t awakened cause they never needed to be.

The emperors were never called tk be the apex of the verse. Just the strongest pirates on the sea at the time. We were shown that even they aren’t the top of the verse as Whitebeard was still considered the strongest in Marineford and he was much weaker than his prime state.