Questions & Mysteries Sukuna and Tengen

#1
In chapter 208 Kenjaku notes that Tengen's current appearance is similar to that of Sukuna from the Heian era.

But why point us in that direction? Is there more to this, seemingly frivolous, observance?

Let's look at what we know about both Tengen and Sukuna:

- Tengen has been merging with people for hundreds of years now. In a way we could consider him a cannibal since, after the merger, the resulting being is still Tengen in nature (with his CT and overall knowledge/personality), while the Star Plasma Vessel becomes a minor part of that final being.

- Tengen had been preaching about Jujutsu at least a hundred years before the Heian era, the most famous era of Jujutsu so far.

- Sukuna on the other hand is known as the King of Curses. He was a pivotal figure in the Heian era to such an extent that, even when sorcerers teamed up to beat him, he still won. The circumstances of his eventual death are unknown, besides the fact that all that remained of him are his 20 fingers.

Which leads me to the next point: Sukuna was a 4 armed, 4 eyed human. Freakish in nature, but still classified as human. But why does he look like that? We have no confirmation whether he was born like that, or if it was a result of some latter jujutsu shenanigans.

Let's get back to Tengen - from Kenjaku's words we can infer that Tengen looked different the last time they met. And that was, likely, a couple hundred years ago at best. His current look is the result of the failed Riko Amanai merger and Tengen evolving past

For Sukuna, the only other info we have is that, at some point in time, he became known as the Fallen/Fallen Angel. The heavenly theme goes hand in hand with Tengen, who functioned as a sort of deity for the past millenium - having people brought to him as sacrifices (to merge with him), being relied upon for barrier construction and overall CE monopoly of Japan.

Yet there is a clear connection between the two, at least on a physical level. But what is it?

Does it have to do with the orogins of CE?

Does it have to do with the merging process and the aledged cannibalism Sukuna subscribes to?

Or is there some other connection between Tengen, the half-deity of jujutsu, and Sukuna the Fallen Angel?

Let me hear your ideas!

My current speculation:

We know cursed energy predates the start of Tengen's preaching since one of the Culling Game players, Dhruv Lakdawalla, is 2000+ years old and was in his second incarnation during the CG.
So, imo, Sukuna was one of the earliest CE practicioners who, through his innate talent for jujutsu became revered at some point in time. But due to battle lust and love for massacres, the populace turned against him, resulting in his fall from grace (Fallen Angel).
Tengen's teachings might even stem from him observing Sukuna, and maybe even learning from him.

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#3
Many implications and theories are coming to mind. There's no way it was just a throwaway comment by Kenny.

I am trying to tie it all together. But coming up short.

What pops to mind is that theory that Sukuna is a set of conjoined twins. Thus giving him the 4 arms and multiple faces. Even the real life myth of Sukuna speaks of that.

What if someway somehow Tengen is the other twin? He lost his body because it was consumed by his brother Sukuna and now needs to merge with vessels because of that? While his body is gone and in possession of Sukuna, his mind, spirit, traversed and is the Tengen we now know? That would explain Kenny's teasing imo. Like look at you. Been through all that to now look like your brother after consuming you.

And Sukuna is touted as the fallen because he ate his brother, or betrayed Tengen, in case I am off the mark with the twins theory.

Sukuna doesn't seem like the guy that would lead people, he's like Gojo, best when he's alone imo, but Tengen can be a different story. His preaching probably attracted followers. What makes me think that is the fact that he knew of Angel's CT.

She most likely was a follower of Tengen's, if what I am saying is on the mark, and that's why she's after Sukuna, the fallen now.
Imo they could have been in like a guild, or band or something, and that's how they know each other and stuff. Probably others like Kenny and Uraume as well.

Another possibility is the same as this bar Tengen being the twin. Sukuna could have simply been another follower that then betrayed them, might have even taken Tengen's body and merged with it and thus resulting in his new form.


Among other possibilities are that Sukuna is the result of the previous Culling Game in which both Kenny and Tengen were involved.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

 
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#4
Many implications and theories are coming to mind. There's no way it was just a throwaway comment by Kenny.

I am trying to tie it all together. But coming up short.

What pops to mind is that theory that Sukuna is a set of conjoined twins. Thus giving him the 4 arms and multiple faces. Even the real life myth of Sukuna speaks of that.

What if someway somehow Tengen is the other twin? He lost his body because it was consumed by his brother Sukuna and now needs to merge with vessels because of that? While his body is gone and in possession of Sukuna, his mind, spirit, traversed and is the Tengen we now know? That would explain Kenny's teasing imo. Like look at you. Been through all that to now look like your bother after consuming you.

And Sukuna is touted as the fallen because he ate his brother, or betrayed Tengen, in case I am off the mark with the twins theory.

Sukuna doesn't seem like the guy that would lead people, he's like Gojo, best when he's alone imo, but Tengen can be a different story. His preaching probably attracted followers. What makes me think that is the fact that he knew of Angel's CT.

She most likely was a follower of Tengen's, if what I am saying is on the mark, and that's why she's after Sukuna, the fallen now.
Imo they could have been in like a guild, or band or something, and that's how they know each other and stuff. Probably others like Kenny and Uraume as well.

Another possibility is the same as this bar Tengen being the twin. Sukuna could have simply been another follower that then betrayed them, might have even taken Tengen's body and merged with it and thus resulting in his new form.


Among other possibilities are that Sukuna is the result of the previous Culling Game in which both Kenny and Tengen were involved.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

I like the idea of a previous Culling Game mostly because it was already stated (by Kenjaku again) that Tengen didn't reveal all the info about the Games to our heroes.

Another theory I have is that Tengen, Sukuna and Angel were all part of a group (or religious movement) with another figure at the head of it all. From there, Tengen got his ideas about jujutsu which he started preaching to the masses, while Sukuna was banished for his ideas amd branded a Fallen Angel.

Thus Tengen would kniw about Angel, and Angel about Sukuna's nickname.
 
#5
It's the cannibalism imo

I think Gege did this on purpose too

Notice how there are multiple trios throughout the series that follow the exact same scheme

Yuji - Megumi - Nobara

Gojo - Geto - Shoko

Sukuna - Kenjaku - Tengen

Male - Male - Female

I think Gege set it up so that each member of this trio all used different methods to sustain themselves, gain power, and increase their lifespans

- Kenjaku through his brain swapping CT (could be a jujutsu technique that he came across or invented)

- Tengen through the merging of Star Plasma Vessels

- Sukuna through cannibalising sorcerers and carving himself with their technique (or storing it in the black boxes)

Sukuna's disfigurement could be a result of this "sin" against Jujutsu

We know for a fact that there's some sort of "higher power" in JJK because Sukuna, one of the best sorcerers to ever walk the earth, can't do anything to break a binding vow



He can find a loophole or an exception but he can't straight up break one. If Sukuna can't do it then no one can

So someone or something is enforcing the rules. This may be a reach but that's genuinely what I believe when Angel refers to Sukuna as "Fallen"

Cannibalism may be viewed as a sin to this "force" and that's why his body is disfigured

This ties into my theory that Sukuna's goal is to surpass this "force" and become a literal God of Jujutsu

This will make all Binding Vows that apply to him null and void. He won't have to follow any of the rules that limit every sorcerer including himself
 
#6
It's the cannibalism imo

I think Gege did this on purpose too

Notice how there are multiple trios throughout the series that follow the exact same scheme

Yuji - Megumi - Nobara

Gojo - Geto - Shoko

Sukuna - Kenjaku - Tengen

Male - Male - Female

I think Gege set it up so that each member of this trio all used different methods to sustain themselves, gain power, and increase their lifespans

- Kenjaku through his brain swapping CT (could be a jujutsu technique that he came across or invented)

- Tengen through the merging of Star Plasma Vessels

- Sukuna through cannibalising sorcerers and carving himself with their technique (or storing it in the black boxes)

Sukuna's disfigurement could be a result of this "sin" against Jujutsu

We know for a fact that there's some sort of "higher power" in JJK because Sukuna, one of the best sorcerers to ever walk the earth, can't do anything to break a binding vow

He can find a loophole or an exception but he can't straight up break one. If Sukuna can't do it then no one can

So someone or something is enforcing the rules. This may be a reach but that's genuinely what I believe when Angel refers to Sukuna as "Fallen"

Cannibalism may be viewed as a sin to this "force" and that's why his body is disfigured

This ties into my theory that Sukuna's goal is to surpass this "force" and become a literal God of Jujutsu

This will make all Binding Vows that apply to him null and void. He won't have to follow any of the rules that limit every sorcerer including himself
Like the idea of sin to tie into the Fallen Angel monicker
 

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#11
I like the idea of a previous Culling Game mostly because it was already stated (by Kenjaku again) that Tengen didn't reveal all the info about the Games to our heroes.

Another theory I have is that Tengen, Sukuna and Angel were all part of a group (or religious movement) with another figure at the head of it all. From there, Tengen got his ideas about jujutsu which he started preaching to the masses, while Sukuna was banished for his ideas amd branded a Fallen Angel.

Thus Tengen would kniw about Angel, and Angel about Sukuna's nickname.
Yeah that was my line of thinking as well.


Yeah it doesn't necessarily have to be Tengen, just some person or so that was revered as a higher force so that Angel followed them.
 
#13
It's the cannibalism imo

I think Gege did this on purpose too

Notice how there are multiple trios throughout the series that follow the exact same scheme

Yuji - Megumi - Nobara

Gojo - Geto - Shoko

Sukuna - Kenjaku - Tengen

Male - Male - Female

I think Gege set it up so that each member of this trio all used different methods to sustain themselves, gain power, and increase their lifespans

- Kenjaku through his brain swapping CT (could be a jujutsu technique that he came across or invented)

- Tengen through the merging of Star Plasma Vessels

- Sukuna through cannibalising sorcerers and carving himself with their technique (or storing it in the black boxes)

Sukuna's disfigurement could be a result of this "sin" against Jujutsu

We know for a fact that there's some sort of "higher power" in JJK because Sukuna, one of the best sorcerers to ever walk the earth, can't do anything to break a binding vow



He can find a loophole or an exception but he can't straight up break one. If Sukuna can't do it then no one can

So someone or something is enforcing the rules. This may be a reach but that's genuinely what I believe when Angel refers to Sukuna as "Fallen"

Cannibalism may be viewed as a sin to this "force" and that's why his body is disfigured

This ties into my theory that Sukuna's goal is to surpass this "force" and become a literal God of Jujutsu

This will make all Binding Vows that apply to him null and void. He won't have to follow any of the rules that limit every sorcerer including himself
love this theory a lot
gotta say
 

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#15
Hmm interesting ideas here!


Here some observations of mine.


So it's ofc obvious that there is a connection between Kenjaku / Tengen / Sukuna.

Not only a timeline related one but Kenjaku actually called Tengen friend so it's safe to say they were all part of an organization / group.

Taking Tengen's character as an exaple is safe to say that they were doing good things ( reason why Sukuna is considered a " fallen angel " could be because of what he became/did in the end maybe he was actually a good guy once, or the nickname wouldn't make much sense imho )

Evolution also seems to be playing a big part in here, so maybe their group wanted to evolve humanity thanks to cursed energy but eventually they all had their own ideas / methods to achieve it:

- Tengen --> Teaching ( he is the one who laid the foundation of jujutsu sorcerers ) maybe he thought that evolution was something that should have happened naturally with time ? ( Maybe Kenjaku kinda mocked him because he looks like Sukuna which maybe disgraced them in the past...... ) the reason they kinda look alike could be related to the canibalism theory of @Welkin i mean Tengen kinda does that as well lol the difference between him and Sukuna could be that while Tengen absorbs people their consciousness becomes one so they don't really die but become part of a greater thing....

- Kenjaku --> Science ( we know the drill )

- Sukuna --> God knows......what, the canibalism theory could easily fit, i mean maybe the answer was really in the first battle of Yuji ? He asked himself " i just need some cursed energy right ? this finger has it so if i eat it........ " and funnily enough Yuji is also paying the price for having done it xD ( but it's probably not connected ) maybe Sukuna's way was the fastest way to achieve such evolution / power but the price to pay was very high ? I mean Kenjaku saw it so probably he considered the method ineffective ?

( Now Tengen's method even if he died it hasn't failed since Kenjaku's plan didn't succeeded either ( yet ) )

Another interesting thing that relates Tengen is Sukuna is that it's said that Tengen evolved more into a " cursed spirit " than a " human " meaning that he's something in between, maybe something more than a human, maybe something more than a cursed spirit ?

Now we know how Sukuna was introduced, he was thought to be an imaginary demon with 2 faces and 4 arms but in reality he was an actual human that existed over 1000 years ago so he had that appearance when he was still considered a human ? If that's the case it could be explained why is he called " the king of the curses " cuz when they eventually managed to defeat him he evolved into something in between like Tengen, i mean he died as a human he didn't do anything as a cursed spirit as far as we know maybe they could only destroy the parts of his body that were still " human "

Idk

Regardless i feel like the next encounter of Kenjaku/Sukuna will be something like this:

Kenjaku:


Sukuna:



 
#16
Another interesting thing that relates Tengen is Sukuna is that it's said that Tengen evolved more into a " cursed spirit " than a " human " meaning that he's something in between, maybe something more than a human, maybe something more than a cursed spirit ?





Tengen's accidental evolution might hold answers to Sukuna's look. Since Tengen evolved due to the circumstances pushing him towards that path, maybe the way Sukuna achieved his form was through willing mutation of some sort.

And that could have been his sin, further explaining why Kenjaku laughed at Tengen, the progenitor of modern jujutsu ending up looking like the great sinner Sukuna.

Great ideas, thank you for sharing!
 
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