General & Others How disappointed would you be if the M3 didn’t fight Calamities?

[bennbeckman]

You saying Zoro and Sanji have beaten or overpowered mid tiers without using full strength.
I've countered by saying before Sanji couldn't even handle Doflamingo, he got caught and would of taken a huge hit, you think he has an answer to that string? Zoro couldn't cut the birdcage. If I being ever so hypocritical were to say, What if since he can't cut the birdcage what makes him be able to cut Doflamingo's string? Does Zoro have an attack he can casually use like Luffy's King Kong Gun?

Yes Luffy did get a huge boost, I've said it over and over and over again, Luffy fought tooth and nail to win that, Why should Zoro and Sanji, whose had nothing but a breeze walk be able to be comparable to that? Does that make any logial sense? All I've been getting from you guys is. "They did fight along the way." As if these small clashes mean getting stronger, strong enough to challenge these guys.

All I see from these statements is headcanoning and wishful thinking for their own power level fantasies, Maybe I am similar but at least I'm trying to stay on the logical side.

Alluding to Zoro couldnt cut birdcage logic hence he coudlnt handled Doflamingo's strings, etc is the dumbest logic ever, Then by that logic Fujitora who couldnt cut down birdcage either. and please dont say well he was holding back because the Navy couldnt touch Doflamingo etc etc, are strings stronger than meteorites?
By Oden not being able to cut the down the barrier between him and Orochi does that make him extremely weak too.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Alluding to Zoro couldnt cut birdcage logic hence he coudlnt handled Doflamingo's strings, etc is the dumbest logic ever, Then by that logic Fujitora who couldnt cut down birdcage either. and please dont say well he was holding back because the Navy couldnt touch Doflamingo etc etc, are strings stronger than meteorites?
By Oden not being able to cut the down the barrier between him and Orochi does that make him extremely weak too.

Circumstance. Besides if Zoro was in Doflamingos league why couldn't he help fight him?

 

[bennbeckman]

Circumstance. Besides if Zoro was in Doflamingos league why couldn't he help fight him?

It's part of the plot, by that logic, why didnt sabo help Luffy fight him since he didnt that means sabo is super weak right?
There is a whole bunch of plotlines and plot armor around multiple characters in the new world
Why hasnt zoro fought a top tier opponent
Why do they make sanji lose to opponents weaker than him I.E his father, what ever his older brothers name is
why is the bari bari barriers unbreakable?
why didnt sanji get a true 1v1 in WCI

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Looking at past arcs makes me believe they ain't shit. I've said it before, If Zoro had so much trouble and wasted time taking down Pica, and Sanji getting caught with parasite or so, he was going to take a big hit. And Sanji struggling with some of BM and his own brothers. Have no business fighting Calamities, and let me say this this is my opinion but and again my opinion I feel is rooted in making sense.

Which is why your analysis is wrong to begin with... you rate someone's probability by basically those measures:

1- What is their STRONGEST FEAT until this day (you do it for offense/defense/speed/Haki...etc)

2- Did they upgrade this arc? which is yes for both

3- How much they have shown with their upgrades? Did they show 10%? 20%? 50%? Did they show ALL Techniques combined 100%? We both know Enma Zoro and RS Sanji didn't even show the tip of what they can do with them

4- Is their opponent a GOOD MATCH UP or are they BAD MATCH UP... Is the enemy DF tricky and bad match for Zoro and Sanji style? Answer is Zoan are basically the best for the SHs to go all out against... CP9 arc is example of that....

5- Lastly, Was King hyped as much as Katakuri? or not... what if Katakuri is basically one notch above ALL commanders from Big Mom + Beast Pirates? Especially since Oda dedicated Katakuri for Luffy... Luffy's opponents are always written better than other opponents...


There are SOOOO MANY ways to write it logically... but if you just wanna have Luffy fight the Yonko this arc.. then have Zoro/Sanji fight veteran level people.. I honestly don't know how excited you will be about this war... sure, writing a story that makes sense great... and I agree... but not to the level to where I get rid of entertainment and element of surprise about certain characters... MAIN CHARACTERS shining in the MOST anticipated arc for ages....

 

[Xione]

Circumstance. Besides if Zoro was in Doflamingos league why couldn't he help fight him?

Birdcage. While Luffy took on Doflamingo, Oda had Zoro be busy with the birdcage. If you remove the birdcage, Zoro goes on to Luffy's fight against Doflamingo, both wreck Doflamingo in a 2v1, and you don't get the epic climax of King Kong Gun pulverizing Doflamingo.


In addition to that, it was Luffy's fight, so even then I doubt he would've interfered unless he needed to.

 

[Zenos7]

Looking at past arcs makes me believe they ain't shit. I've said it before, If Zoro had so much trouble and wasted time taking down Pica, and Sanji getting caught with parasite or so, he was going to take a big hit. And Sanji struggling with some of BM and his own brothers. Have no business fighting Calamities, and let me say this this is my opinion but and again my opinion I feel is rooted in making sense.

"so much trouble" seems out of place there.

Parasite was able to pin down jozu, a YC, as well.

And with zoro training his haki and sanji acquiring the RS, these arguments have even less to stand on IMHO.

 

[Ravagerblade]

It's part of the plot, by that logic, why didnt sabo help Luffy fight him since he didnt that means sabo is super weak right?
There is a whole bunch of plotlines and plot armor around multiple characters in the new world
Why hasnt zoro fought a top tier opponent
Why do they make sanji lose to opponents weaker than him I.E his father, what ever his older brothers name is
why is the bari bari barriers unbreakable?
why didnt sanji get a true 1v1 in WCI

I agree, like I said circumstances. To me its like asking why did Luffy fight BM, Kaidou as soon as he could to beat em... oh well wait, BM beat him one punch basically. And Kaidou one hit him too. I.e. hitting above your pay grade, at least fight something a little more reasonable... Cracker, Doflamingo, Katakuri....

My basic point is even if Zoro and Sanji do fight Calamities they better go through absolute hell.

 

[bennbeckman]

I agree, like I said circumstances. To me its like asking why did Luffy fight BM, Kaidou as soon as he could to beat em... oh well wait, BM beat him one punch basically. And Kaidou one hit him too. I.e. hitting above your pay grade, at least fight something a little more reasonable... Cracker, Doflamingo, Katakuri....

My basic point is even if Zoro and Sanji do fight Calamities they better go through absolute hell.

The answers we are searching for and using our own headcanon to fill in, we will find out when they have their 1v1s

 

[Zenos7]

and you don't get the epic climax of King Kong Gun pulverizing Doflamingo.

or the collective of pirates, marines, random people who got there because of the colloseum fight and dressrosa people push against the birdcage.

And fuji holding back against the birdcage doesnt make sense, because he really wouldnt have aided in taking down doffy with that, he would have just protected the civilians, which seemingly was among the things he wanted to do there.

there is a reason people call it plotcage lol

 

[Ravagerblade]

"so much trouble" seems out of place there.

Parasite was able to pin down jozu, a YC, as well.

And with zoro training his haki and sanji acquiring the RS, these arguments have even less to stand on IMHO.

Yet what you say is featless without evidence, that which you guys thrive on.

 

[Zenos7]

My basic point is even if Zoro and Sanji do fight Calamities they better go through absolute hell.

Of course lol, i dont think anyone would argue for either of them having an easy go against them

 

[Zenos7]

Yet what you say is featless without evidence, that which you guys thrive on.

What? Ofc current all out enma zoro and all out RS sanji are featless.

The points still stand though

 

[Ravagerblade]

What? Ofc current all out enma zoro and all out RS sanji are featless.

The points still stand though

I just dont think those are what makes the difference.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

My basic point is even if Zoro and Sanji do fight Calamities they better go through absolute hell.

They may very well. Oda called it their most difficult battle for a reason. Let's hope he keeps his word.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

The reason why I say a marine arc is all but confirmed is this.

It was indicated that something bad happened to sabo. It was also hinted that something happened to Vivi, as we know there was a major incident at alabasta and we saw Imu ripping up a picture of vivi in reverie. something bad most likely happened to hancock. The marines, who should now be as strong as 4 yonko crew due to the SSG wouldn't send fodder to amazon lily. They either sent the SSG or an admiral.

in any case, if nothing bad happened to Sabo, Vivi, or Hancock, then it would literally negate all the tension and buildup that happened from reverie. Unless you want some scenario where it turns out that Sabo was fine all along and that morgans was spreading fake news, something must have happened.

When you combine this with the fact that the marines, who as mentioned are now on par with the 4 yonko due to the SSG, have taken a back seat the entirety of the post skip, it just doesn't make sense for there to not be a marine arc. There are too many plot points that need to be touched on and they can't all be pushed to the final war. Coby, Smoker, Garp, Ryokugyo, Fujitora, Aokiji, Akainu, Vegapunk, the SSG, all these characters are severely underdeveloped and need an arc to be fleshed out.

and its not even that Zoro needs more time before he can beat a YC1, Luffy needs more time before he can beat a yonko. I honestly doubt that whatever training Hyouzou put Luffy through would make him strong enough to beat awakened Kaido. With so many characters in wano, Kaido is bound to be a tag team fight, there's no other way about it.

Lastly, Luffy cannot beat Akainu after blackbeard. Boasting two of the strongest DFs in the series, prime blackbeard is all but assured to be stronger than Akainu. Akainu on the other hand, doesn't even have enough portrayal to put him above Kaido.

 

[The Dark Flame]

A lot of people expect Zoro to scar Kaido in some way, but when would this happen? Before his fight or afterwards? Because if Zoro fights King like a lot of people are expecting then he better be unconscious after the fight. King should be an extreme diff fight easy, at the least, I’m skeptical if Zoro should even be at that level right now honestly. At least given the way Oda has developed the strength of the strawhats.

 

[HA001]

A lot of people expect Zoro to scar Kaido in some way, but when would this happen? Before his fight or afterwards? Because if Zoro fights King like a lot of people are expecting then he better be unconscious after the fight. King should be an extreme diff fight easy, at the least, I’m skeptical if Zoro should even be at that level right now honestly. At least given the way Oda has developed the strength of the strawhats.

A lot of people expect Zoro to scar Kaido in some way, but when would this happen? Before his fight or afterwards? Because if Zoro fights King like a lot of people are expecting then he better be unconscious after the fight. King should be an extreme diff fight easy, at the least, I’m skeptical if Zoro should even be at that level right now honestly. At least given the way Oda has developed the strength of the strawhats.

A lot of people expect Zoro to scar Kaido in some way, but when would this happen? Before his fight or afterwards? Because if Zoro fights King like a lot of people are expecting then he better be unconscious after the fight. King should be an extreme diff fight easy, at the least, I’m skeptical if Zoro should even be at that level right now honestly. At least given the way Oda has developed the strength of the strawhats.

Not how it works when theres still shit to do. Mr 1 and kaku were tough fights but he had to keep going after both until shit was done.

 

[HA001]

The reason why I say a marine arc is all but confirmed is this.

It was indicated that something bad happened to sabo. It was also hinted that something happened to Vivi, as we know there was a major incident at alabasta and we saw Imu ripping up a picture of vivi in reverie. something bad most likely happened to hancock. The marines, who should now be as strong as 4 yonko crew due to the SSG wouldn't send fodder to amazon lily. They either sent the SSG or an admiral.

in any case, if nothing bad happened to Sabo, Vivi, or Hancock, then it would literally negate all the tension and buildup that happened from reverie. Unless you want some scenario where it turns out that Sabo was fine all along and that morgans was spreading fake news, something must have happened.

When you combine this with the fact that the marines, who as mentioned are now on par with the 4 yonko due to the SSG, have taken a back seat the entirety of the post skip, it just doesn't make sense for there to not be a marine arc. There are too many plot points that need to be touched on and they can't all be pushed to the final war. Coby, Smoker, Garp, Ryokugyo, Fujitora, Aokiji, Akainu, Vegapunk, the SSG, all these characters are severely underdeveloped and need an arc to be fleshed out.

and its not even that Zoro needs more time before he can beat a YC1, Luffy needs more time before he can beat a yonko. I honestly doubt that whatever training Hyouzou put Luffy through would make him strong enough to beat awakened Kaido. With so many characters in wano, Kaido is bound to be a tag team fight, there's no other way about it.

Lastly, Luffy cannot beat Akainu after blackbeard. Boasting two of the strongest DFs in the series, prime blackbeard is all but assured to be stronger than Akainu. Akainu on the other hand, doesn't even have enough portrayal to put him above Kaido.

Wb clearly says the war with the marines is gonna be after one piece is found.
This is the yonko saga which means all 4 of them will be out of the picture when this saga ends.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

They're likely going to fight the calamities but Oda will need to make it super clear that Sanji and Zoro were never pushed before facing the calamities. Alternatively, something else could weaken the calamities to make the fight more believable. Maybe Sanji and Zoro came out the time skip super close to G4 Luffy level (which is like YC3) and their respective powerups in Enma and the RS has boosted them up to half a tier where they can fight Queen and King extreme difficulty and take a win. Maybe thats the case. But looking at Luffy's progression, Commanders are far too strong for anything either Z or S have shown thus far.

Unless, Luffy has been run through a gauntlet of the hardest and strongest commanders at each stage because Doffy, Cracker and Katakuri embarrassed Luffy without plot armor. If Cracker, Kata and Doffy are superior to the members of the beast pirates then I guess that would be acceptable.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Wb clearly says the war with the marines is gonna be after one piece is found.
This is the yonko saga which means all 4 of them will be out of the picture when this saga ends.

he said a war with the world government

the marines are only the outward face of the world government. Their true power is amongst Imu and the gorosei as well as others like Kong.

The final war will be against Imu. Hence, Luffy should probably beat Akainu before. Imo Akainu is important enough in order to warrant him being the main antagonist of his own arc.