General & Others King Vs Zoro sucked: Morj Breakdsdown how dumb this fight was

Jailer

Jailer

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#61
#61
I don't need morj to tell me that, I already know that fight sucked. Mainly with the explanation of King's powers, final chapter dropped the ball big time, barely used his zoan in that chapter too in an effective manner. It was good until we knew nothing about King's body rules, everything after that made little sense.

- Him being invulnerable to damage - why the hell would he sacrifice that for his increase of speed to make himself vulnerable - meaning zero explanation how or when those flames go on and off.

Zoro just finding out he has CoC and in a moment he learned CoC coating (can't get anymore bullshit than that)... only to still use it when King's flame was off in his back anyway.

Even in choreography it sucked.

Instead of convoluting his powers like that without proper explanation I would have had him simply be an awakened ancient zoan user for insane regen and his race having the power to burst into flames, so that way his zoan integrates into his fighting style. This was the arc for ancient zoans, should have had at least one awakened too who else other than King.
 
Garp the Fist

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
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#63
#63
It could have done with another chapter to flesh things out. The final chapter was rushed, it had to fit in King’s flashback, Zoro working out how to beat him and the fight itself. I see why it happened, it was to fit the majority of Zoro vs King and Sanji vs Queen in one volume. Should still have been given more time. As with a lot of Wano, poorly planned use of time from Oda.

King should have been given far more build-up throughout the arc. I agree with the people who say Oda simply hadn’t thought through everything about him and the Lunarians until after Zoro started fighting him. Not just that, but also his relationship with Kaido. Then again, all of Kaido‘s backstory was rushed.

Was still one of the best fights in Onigashima though. The lead up to Zoro learning ACoC is great, the action is good from beginning to end, King- once Oda does start focusing on him- is interesting and a decent foil to Zoro.

For the actual defeat, we‘ll see whether Egghead gives more details that changes anything. For me, I didn’t have any complaints or questions about what happened.

King starts blocking in flame
Zoro says “why you doing that, scared?”
King turns his flame off to run away and try and finish the fight from a distance with his strongest attack.
 
zenox

zenox

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#64
#64
one of the most controversial fights
i am also tired of oda giving these durability based opponents to zoro
thought it will be done after kaido but then oda suddenly introduces king having an ability which makes him invincible .
 
Minatoze Narutomaki

Minatoze Narutomaki

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#66
#66
ImmaIvanoM said:
At 34:00

https://www.youtube.com/live/RHrEi9_3v_U?feature=share

Morj is just realising something I’ve been telling everyone. The King fight was poorly written. Both because

1. King shouldn’t have ever removed his invincibility since his speed boosts did not actually help him fight Zoro any better as they had the same even clashes both with and without the flames

2. The fight was structured poorly because Oda wasted most of the panel time on Zoro learning CoC yet CoC isn’t what won the fight, the fight was won by Zoro learning when the invincibility was removed. His CoC barely mattered

Morj breaks it down at 30:15 that most of the fight was about CoC, and yet the actual winning play, The flame off/on shit was discovered by Zoro OFFSCREEN

This is like if the entire Zoro vs Daz bones fight was focused on Zoro improving his speed. Like we get an entire flashback of Zoro training his speed and reaction time. And then offscreen we learn that “Actually all you need to beat Daz bones is Haki and Zoro discovered he has haki OFFSCREEN” and then Zoro beats Daz with Haki he obtained offscreen.
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exactly, this is stupid, trying so hard to somehow give him control over COC and then now says the COC didn't even matter in the fight and they should focus on an opening, why would someone invincible give the other guy a deliberate opening anyways SMH :okay:
 
Garp the Fist

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
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#67
#67
Thaidakar said:
Well , surely except the huge ass fucking grim reaper that appeared out of nowhere :zorothink:
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I don’t really count that as part of the fight.

Zoro’s story on Wano from chapter 909 to 1036 is great, post 1036 is a complete dumpster fire and one of the greatest victims of Oda tossing plot-points into the bin to finally finish the arc.
 
Kurozumi Wiwi

Kurozumi Wiwi

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#69
#69
Egghead made it worse because Zoro literally contradicts himself
During that fight he implied King was scared of taking his hits, yet in the last chapter he said it’s pointless to hit flame on seraphims?
 
Garp the Fist

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
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#70
#70
Kurozumi Wiwi said:
Egghead made it worse because Zoro literally contradicts himself
During that fight he implied King was scared of taking his hits, yet in the last chapter he said it’s pointless to hit flame on seraphims?
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It’s not a contradiction.

Zoro suggests at the end of Zoro vs King that he’ll be able to hurt him with KoH.

Zoro says on Egghead that with the flame they are almost/practically invincible, depending on translation.

Key word is the almost/practically. Meaning there is something that Zoro thinks can be done against them- attacks on the level of Zoro’s KoH- but everything else is useless.

Keep in mind he’s talking not just to Luffy, but to Lucci and Kaku. Lucci and Kaku have zero chance of doing damage to a flame on Lunarian. And Zoro hasn’t actually seen G5, and only a bit of Luffy vs Kaido with ACoC.
 
Midnight Delight

Midnight Delight

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#71
#71
Garp the Fist said:
It’s not a contradiction.

Zoro suggests at the end of Zoro vs King that he’ll be able to hurt him with KoH.

Zoro says on Egghead that with the flame they are almost/practically invincible, depending on translation.

Key word is the almost/practically. Meaning there is something that Zoro thinks can be done against them- attacks on the level of Zoro’s KoH- but everything else is useless.

Keep in mind he’s talking not just to Luffy, but to Lucci and Kaku. Lucci and Kaku have zero chance of doing damage to a flame on Lunarian. And Zoro hasn’t actually seen G5, and only a bit of Luffy vs Kaido with ACoC.
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The problem is that there isn't really a reason for either Luffy nor Zoro to not use CoC. Especially when Luffy used G5 which far depletes his Stamina when he could have double tapped Lucci with G4+CoC
 
ImmaIvanoM

ImmaIvanoM

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#72
#72
Garp the Fist said:
It’s not a contradiction.

Zoro suggests at the end of Zoro vs King that he’ll be able to hurt him with KoH.

Zoro says on Egghead that with the flame they are almost/practically invincible, depending on translation.

Key word is the almost/practically. Meaning there is something that Zoro thinks can be done against them- attacks on the level of Zoro’s KoH- but everything else is useless.

Keep in mind he’s talking not just to Luffy, but to Lucci and Kaku. Lucci and Kaku have zero chance of doing damage to a flame on Lunarian. And Zoro hasn’t actually seen G5, and only a bit of Luffy vs Kaido with ACoC.
Click to expand...
So why doesn’t he use CoC? Like is this PIS? Do we know any reason why Zoro doesn’t just tell Luffy that CoC can work?
 
Garp the Fist

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
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#73
#73
Midnight Delight said:
The problem is that there isn't really a reason for either Luffy nor Zoro to not use CoC. Especially when Luffy used G5 which far depletes his Stamina when he could have double tapped Lucci with G4+CoC
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There’s a strong reason for Zoro not to use it, using that much Haki nearly killed him.

But in general, this is just standard One Piece. Characters hardly ever go all out from the beginning. Just look how long it took for us to see Asura again.
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ImmaIvanoM said:
So why doesn’t he use CoC? Like is this PIS? Do we know any reason why Zoro doesn’t just tell Luffy that CoC can work?
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Yes, it’s a bit of PIS, but also, Zoro is a character. He is not omniscient. From his view, he suspects that his KoH attacks could hurt a flame on Lunarian.

That doesn’t mean anything to the other characters. Zoro knows nothing about G5. He also knows next to nothing about Luffy’s CoC. The last Zoro saw of Luffy vs Kaido he had just been Thunder Bagued, taken Hakai and was lying in a heap on the ground. Also, Zoro is perfectly aware that attacks that hurt Kaido won’t necessarily hurt a Lunarian.

Basically, Zoro said the important stuff. Flame goes off, attack, flame on, nearly impossible to hurt. That’s what Zoro knows for a fact, and keeps the scene moving at a good pace. Anything else is a suspicion on his part, and any speculation about Luffy’s abilities would be just that, speculation.
 
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