Questions & Mysteries Is advanced CoC really only no touching?

[BornInAbyss]

Okay here is a Thread directly dedicated to @Rootbeer s claims.

First and foremost ACoC being no touching or touching is inconsistent. The only consistent thing about ACoC are black lightning trails that emit from fists or weapons.

They always appear the same. It never changes no matter what. There trails appear in no touching moments and touching moments. Here are panels that prove the touching moments:

And here are panels where we can see ACoC trails emitting from fists/weapons.

So we can safely assume that the black lightning trails 100% indicating ACoC. No touching or touching doesn’t matter for this instance. Only black lightning trails as we can see from the panels.

 

[Stacks]

From Mr. Hakiman himself

Every AdCoC scene is not touching.. The same way Haki was not shown pre timeskip, AdCoC won't always be drawn not touching but
the readers must assume that it is not touching..

 

[BornInAbyss]

From Mr. Hakiman himself

Thats straight up delusional and doesn’t fit into the whole picture of ACoC. This guy is something else ngl 😂

 

[RoronoaZorro]

No-touching ACoC attacks just mean that the user imbue ACoA on it. The second stage of CoA.

See bottom right

That's why there is a "gap" or "space" between the user and target.

"ACoC that touch" is just normal Hardening/blackening, using basic CoA.

 

[ZenZu]

Oda confused everyone with the 1010 reveal.

AdvCoC is not barrier haki, the no touch comes from CoA, and so does internal penetration. AdvCoC is a multiplier, it doesn't have a identifiable function of its own.

This is why people who believe CoA ended up being useless against Kaidou have no idea what they're talking about. CoA was still the most crucial element to learn, as Luffy would have no way to penetrate Kaidou's scales, even with advCoC he would mostly be doing surface level damage.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Thats straight up delusional and doesn’t fit into the whole picture of ACoC. This guy is something else ngl 😂

@Rootbeer is essentially One piece version of "I believe Earth is flat"
Just leave him to his own devices, let the man be rather than making threads to belittle him.

Its not really gonna change his mind.
He's still a chill guy.

 

[BornInAbyss]

@Rootbeer is essentially One piece version of "I believe Earth is flat"
Just leave him to his own devices, let the man be rather than making threads to belittle him.

Its not really gonna change his mind.
He's still a chill guy.

I wouldn‘t be surprised if he thought the earth is flat ngl. This dude is the definition of delusional. And I am saying this as an schizophrenic. Lmao

 

[Rootbeer]

Oda confused everyone with the 1010 reveal.

AdvCoC is not barrier haki, the no touch comes from CoA, and so does internal penetration. AdvCoC is a multiplier, it doesn't have a identifiable function of its own.

This is why people who believe CoA ended up being useless against Kaidou have no idea what they're talking about. CoA was still the most crucial element to learn, as Luffy would have no way to penetrate Kaidou's scales, even with advCoC he would mostly be doing surface level damage.

Not true..

The only time AdCoA is not touching it's when being used for defense.. It will touch when it's for offense.. Therefore the not touching on chapter 1010 is strictly related to AdCoC because Luffy is attacking..

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Not true..

The only time AdCoA is not touching it's when being used for defense.. It will touch when it's for offense.. Therefore the not touching on chapter 1010 is strictly related to AdCoC because Luffy is attacking..

This is no touch btw

Fundamentally its application of CoA.

You can make No Touch CoC by Adding CoC on top of CoA.
But CoA is generally just the trails.

Since Zoro's CoA mastery is far more advanced than Yamato, he can make a no touch barrier with CoC. Yamato can't since she has no concept of No touch Haki.

 

[Rootbeer]

This is no touch btw

Fundamentally its application of CoA.

You can make No Touch CoC by Adding CoC on top of CoA.
But CoA is generally just the trails.

Since Zoro's CoA mastery is far more advanced than Yamato, he can make a no touch barrier with CoC. Yamato can't since she has no concept of No touch Haki.

If it was, Dragon Damnation would also be no touch on the reveal chapter..

 

[ZenZu]

If it was, Dragon Damnation would also be no touch on the reveal chapter..

Think for a second. Why would Zoro who is trying to cut his opponent, not want to make direct contact with their body? You can literally see him using a barrier in the panel above but in DD he is trying to maim King, not create a barrier so that King is protected from his blades.

 

[SakazOuki]

Gear5 already used ACoC against Kaido while making physical contact
When he shielded himself from Crydo's fire Luffy literally remarks how ACoA could do it

 

[Rootbeer]

Think for a second. Why would Zoro who is trying to cut his opponent, not want to make direct contact with their body? You can literally see him using a barrier in the panel above but in DD he is trying to maim King, not create a barrier so that King is protected from his blades.

Yes because AdCoC goes against the essence of a Swordman aiming for the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship.. You're not a real Swordsman if you're not cutting.. You kind of answered it yourself.. Not touching is not cutting and that is utterly pointless as a Swordsman..

 

[ZenZu]

Yes because AdCoC goes against the essence of a Swordman aiming for the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship.. You're not a real Swordsman if you're not cutting.. You kind of answered it yourself.. Not touching is not cutting and that is utterly pointless as a Swordsman..

If advCoC is no touching, then

1. Why does Luffy reference Color of armament when he needs to not touch Kaidou's blazing bagua?

Spoiler

2. Blazing Bagua works similarly to Zoro's attacks, Kaidou wants to touch his opponent, using blazing bagua with a barrier is counterproductive as he is only shielding his opponents from his own attack. So are you also saying Kaidou does not use advCoC in his strongest final attack?

 

[Shiroyru]

If advCoC is no touching, then

1. Why does Luffy reference Color of armament when he needs to not touch Kaidou's blazing bagua?

Spoiler

2. Blazing Bagua works similarly to Zoro's attacks, Kaidou wants to touch his opponent, using blazing bagua with a barrier is counterproductive as he is only shielding his opponents from his own attack. So are you also saying Kaidou does not use advCoC in his strongest final attack?

AdvCoC is one of the biggest disasters of Wano. Oda needs to give an actual explanation for how ACoC and ACoA are different, because right now ACoC just seems like a more powerful ACoC at first glance

 

[ZenZu]

AdvCoC is one of the biggest disasters of Wano. Oda needs to give an actual explanation for how ACoC and ACoA are different, because right now ACoC just seems like a more powerful ACoC at first glance

That's cause the way it was revealed in 1010 was awful. It made it seem like a barrier was a built in function of advCoC.

From my understanding offensively atleast, AdvCoC is just the act of imbuing your "willpower, conqueror spirit magic" into your attacks. It's like giving yourself a +1 stat boost, it doesn't actually have a function past that. The action of penetrating Kaidou's scale is done by CoA internal penetration. AdvCoC gives the attack a +1 so that it penetrates further.

CoA 1: Armament hardening
CoA 2: Barrier
CoA 3: Internal Penetration

AdvCoC can act on any of those to enhance them. But on its own it doesn't have a function. This is why Yamato does surface level paper cut damage to Kaidou, when even an unrefined version of Luffy's ACoC seemed to be doing much better, she's not actually penetrating Kaidou's scales since she is unable to use internal penetration.

 

[Rootbeer]

If advCoC is no touching, then

1. Why does Luffy reference Color of armament when he needs to not touch Kaidou's blazing bagua?

Spoiler

2. Blazing Bagua works similarly to Zoro's attacks, Kaidou wants to touch his opponent, using blazing bagua with a barrier is counterproductive as he is only shielding his opponents from his own attack. So are you also saying Kaidou does not use advCoC in his strongest final attack?

I appreciate your reasoning..

1. He's referring to Flowing Haki in AdCoC which is what Garp did in the last chapter.. AdCoC + Internal Destruction CoA..

2. This is one is really tricky.. I do not have a Definite answer, but somehow Kaido may not have used AdCoC in his final attack thinking he would melt everything away, making the cardinal mistake to rely solely on his Devil Fruit Powers.. l would go a step further and say what made the difference in that Battle is Kaido did not know how to use Internal Destruction which gave Luffy the Edge to Win..

If Luffy did a Bajrang Gun with only AdCoC.. He would have lost.. Which i think is what Kaido was assuming..

 

[ZenZu]

I appreciate your reasoning..

1. He's referring to Flowing Haki in AdCoC which is what Garp did in the last chapter.. AdCoC + Internal Destruction CoA..

2. This is one is really tricky.. I do not have a Definite answer, but somehow Kaido may not have used AdCoC in his final attack thinking he would melt everything away, making the cardinal mistake to rely solely on his Devil Fruit Powers.. l would go a step further and say what made the difference in that Battle is Kaido did not know how to use Internal Destruction which gave Luffy the Edge to Win..

If Luffy did a Bajrang Gun with only AdCoC.. He would have lost.. Which i think is what Kaido was assuming..

Fair enough I completely disagree, but advCoC is not explained for shit, so it leaves even the tiniest window for different interpretations.

 

[Rootbeer]

Fair enough I completely disagree, but advCoC is not explained for shit, so it leaves even the tiniest window for different interpretations.

Damn it saddens me that you disagree.. l thought i was making a breakthrough with someone.. At least you took the time to see my point of view thank you.. I can refer you to another post of mine..

You know Luffy is a special case, he's the main character who has to become a Haki Master and go through all the step for him to reach the top of the verse and beyond.. l'd argue Zoro and Sanji don't need to become Haki Masters, they need to find their Haki Niche.. Actually it's what Haki Swordsmanship is all about a specific Haki Niche..


Which Sanji will obviously be CoO related or CoC based CoO application.. Zoro will be CoA based CoC application which are the Black Blades.. And the more i've been talking about it the more apparent it's getting..

The thing with AdCoC is it is not a CoA based CoC application, it's a CoC based CoA application.. l hear you screaming and every Zoro fans - WHAT THE HELL lS THE DlFFERENCE! - .. Well that's where the Black Blades come in which are mostly going to be a CoA based CoC application and the best way i can picture it right now is CoC lnfusion or CoC Hardening on the Blade.. That's the Haki Path Divergence for Swordsmen aiming at the Pinnacle of Swordsmanship..

Also in that same line of thought, Observation Killer would be a CoO based CoC application..

 

[JoNdule]

No touch happens
It's not guaranteed

We've seen base CoC being used via contact /collusion of attacks and also done without contact

So adcoc also works the same : you can make contact if you want