Current Events The raid on Onigashima will undoubtedly fail

[PuckTheGreat]

I hope next gen Marines ( Coby , Smoker , Helmeppo , Tashigi ) will come but last time we saw them , they were busy escorting 50 Kings & Queens back to their kingdoms , the result of incident with Vivi/Cobra , and dealing with Mihawk , Hancock , Weevil , Buggy

IIRC Smoker and Tashigi were on their way to Vegapunk who's name has been brought up in this arc already and was requested to be brought to Wano so chances are that we'd be seeing Smoker and Tashigi on Wano. I already stated this earlier but it's inconceivable for me personally for Smoker and Tashigi to miss out on a pivotal arc like this one particularly if we are gonna be having some sort of marine cooperation with the alliance. Plus there's also Tashigi's dream which is to collect all the meitou around the world from people who use them for evil. Wano would be a way for her to make serious strides on that objective. With regards to Coby he's on his way to Hancock. Hancock is a character that was once a slave of the celestials along with her sisters so I doubt Oda would be having them go through the same ting again. In a time when the the alliance are in dire need of allies, Coby making contact with Hancock just feels like a convenient way for Oda to bring her and the kuja to wano to me.

At this point i have no idea how the alliance is not getting clapped in this "war". It should be called a one sided beat down.

At the same time i couldn't endure another phase of preparations for battle. Also, how is Oda gonna explain that the alliance loses but all the major characters get out alive and live for a second try?

It would make the Yonkou look even more incompetent.

Yh having to see the SHs prep again after all the time wasted in the arc already would be quite frustrating ^^". With regards to the SHs and the others escaping Wano, Oda could have the scabbards and the samurai acting as a sorta shield for them to escape. In that case it'd be understandable but from the Yonkou perspective they can also go finish off any of the rebels on the main land after the festival. That was initially the plan afterall ^^. Oda could also create a situation where a few alliance members and the scabbards get captured and are are to be publicly executed on the mainland whilst the other escapes, and then we could have battles ensue there again during the execution. Actually having the scabbards capture again to once again shatter all the hopes of the wano citizens only to then have Luffy beat Kaidou would be quite a scene.

What people seem to be missing about this issue is the very concept of the Kagura festival: its real world inspiration is an event of victory against the evil, commonly Yamata-no-orochi, so it feels like the perfect moment for the bad guys in Onigashima to go down. I think that the good guys will achieve, minimum, a partial victory and wouldn't suprise me if Orochi was defeated here at least.

I think Orochi is gonna be escaping Onigashima...lolz

Reasons being:
1. He's a slimy bastard that always somehow manages to wiggle himself outta of life threatening situations lolz
2. The order in which Oda had Luffy state he'd be defeating the current arc antagonist i s a bit odd, it was Kaidou, Lilin and then Orochi. Mind you, the Kaidou -> Lilin sequence is consistent with what Luffy said on WCI.

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Rocks alliance is big deal for one piece world, they shouldn't be defeated in Onigashima, it's anticlimatic, but I think it will happen.

 

[Albino 👑]

Until neko and marines maybe come to wano i cant see them winning

 

[Finalbeta]

Until neko and marines maybe come to wano i cant see them winning

Marines might solo so I hope not too many will come hahah

 

[Lunaria]

That’s what I’m hoping. I had this vision of the alliance getting destroyed. Killer, Kinemon, Kawamatsu, Shutenmaru and Denjiro die. The survivors manage to escape, everyone is desperate and the Red Scabbards cry. Everything around them is in flames (don’t ask me why), Luffy is on his knees, shocked and mentally broken. He doesn’t know what to do. End of Act 3.

Oda : "lol nope".

 

[Garp the Fist]

To an extent.

First of all, I have to say that Big Mom is the massive wildcard, but one who will not be defeated here. There's too many loose ends to her story that cannot be resolved without Elbaf, Pudding and Lola present. And her crew are irrelevant to what the aim of the arc is- the defeat of Kaido and avenging Oden. She has to play a big role, I don't know what it will be, but I do not see fights against her crew.

Also, for the plan- Kin isn't in charge. Law is. He's the one calling the shots now that Kin has been bamboozled by Kan.

Also, I reckon Tama could be the one following the Strawhats as a stowaway.

Anyway, Kaido himself is unlikely to be defeated here. His crew and army will be.

It's taken Oda coming up to eighty chapters to arrange us at this point where all the characters are just starting converging at the one point. We've had the emotional heart of the arc and why it's happening, the Oden flashback. We've had the heroes suffer their defeats. The samurai have burnt their boats- its do or die time. The raid has been arranged to coincide with the full moon so the Minks can go Su Long.

It is simply too much of a reversal for Oda to have the Alliance utterly thrashed here. And then have to go right back to the drawing board and set up another gathering and seperation of characters to set up the fights. Not to mention juggling the plot around so that the totally defeated army aren't just murdered on the spot, and having to then spring some sort of mass prison break for them to be able to fight again. A total defeat here would be the equivalent of a total defeat in the Tower of Law in EL, it doesn't make sense.

However, Kaido by himself winning here, now that makes sense. It's a hell of a lot of work to set up another ten odd fights after the war. It's not much work to set up one final battle, and all the ingredients are already there. And it would fit in a lot of what we've seen in the past, we're the fights have all been done except for the main bad guy, who wins his battle against Luffy while the doomsday device in the background is going on. It's the Alabasta/Skypiea/TB (to an extent)/Dressrosa formula.

So we get the battle, everyone puts everything on the line, Neko shows up, the Minks go Su Long, the Numbers are defeated, the fodder are defeated, the Headliners are defeated, the Flying Six, Fukurokujo, the Calamities- but Luffy, Kid and Law simply can't beat Kaido. And everyone else has near killed themselves winning against the other Beast Pirates. Kaido himself will probably batter a couple for revenge. So he darts over to Wano proper with Orochi for the classic One Piece doomsday plot- he's going to kill everyone like him and Orochi threatened Oden with all those years ago. Ships too slow to get to Wano, even the Sunny. No way to get to Kaido on time. There's your tragedy to end Act Three- they've won the battle, but the cost is too high and they are going to lose the war

Then up pops the rightful Shogun who has been unable to use his DF and is a crybaby, a plot that's been going on since all the way back in PH. He steps up, becomes a man worthy of his father, overcomes his fear of flight, uses his DF and carries Luffy (and maybe Zoro) over after him, and that's where we get our final fight.

 

[Fujishiro]

At this point i have no idea how the alliance is not getting clapped in this "war". It should be called a one sided beat down.

At the same time i couldn't endure another phase of preparations for battle. Also, how is Oda gonna explain that the alliance loses but all the major characters get out alive and live for a second try?

It would make the Yonkou look even more incompetent.

there wont be preparations, just executions set in a week or something. then we can end the act and show whats up in the world.Giving plenty of time for the marines/blackbeard/alliance to show up.

 

[MarineHQ]

there wont be preparations, just executions set in a week or something. then we can end the act and show whats up in the world.Giving plenty of time for the marines/blackbeard/alliance to show up.

But why would they set up an execution, what's the point of that?

The Fire festival is today ( in the op world), even Queen said that they're perfect offerings. It doesn't make sense that they capture a alliance and conveniently don't kill them.

 

[Fujishiro]

But why would they set up an execution, what's the point of that?

The Fire festival is today ( in the op world), even Queen said that they're perfect offerings. It doesn't make sense that they capture a alliance and conveniently don't kill them.

To quell any more desire for rebellion and announce the rocks alliance to the world, thats how the marines are gonna come by i think. Drake will be revealed then captured. If you recall hawkins gave luffy 1 month before his odds of survival drop to 19%, i believe thats the timeline oda set up for wano. We are in the beginning of week 3.

They will kill them, but to set an example it will be in the flower capital. Luffy always defeats his enemies in the view of the population. Oda will try to mirror the boiling of oden imo, except whereas oden didnt relly on anyone else. Luffy willl rely on the help coming to set them free.

 

[Ryuarashi]

Honestly don't see them retreating at all, its just going to be a hard fought victory

 

[stealthblack]

Well yeah, Monkeys and zoLo blew their cover. And right now they said kaidou has 5 Times more Men șo...

But who will free.them in the end? Nekomamushi? Drake? Marines?

 

[Fujishiro]

Well yeah, Monkeys and zoLo blew their cover. And right now they said kaidou has 5 Times more Men șo...

But who will free.them in the end? Nekomamushi? Drake? Marines?

marines/bb neko
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[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

The raid is obviously gonna failed but I don't expect the enemies will capture them but they will retreat and prepare for another raid insteadMaybe Neko and other people might come to Wano to help out as well

 

[Finalbeta]

The raid is obviously gonna failed but I don't expect the enemies will capture them but they will retreat and prepare for another raid insteadMaybe Neko and other people might come to Wano to help out as well

Haha not sure why so many people are so hyped for Neko

 

[Constantine]

Why would the marines help the alliance??

 

[Dr. Spook]

That’s what I’m hoping. I had this vision of the alliance getting destroyed. Killer, Kinemon, Kawamatsu, Shutenmaru and Denjiro die. The survivors manage to escape, everyone is desperate and the Red Scabbards cry. Everything around them is in flames (don’t ask me why), Luffy is on his knees, shocked and mentally broken. He doesn’t know what to do. End of Act 3.

Oda : "lol nope".

Yeah, as much as how it'd be great for something like this to happen, it's just impossible, really.. Oda doesn't like to kill his characters off, not even Pound.. which is just stupid upto this point, imo... like, there's no tension, no stakes or anything... coz apparently, we all know everyone's gonna survive in the end. *sigh*

And even if Kaido just manages to catch the scabbards, obviously none of them are gonna die... Because Oda doesn't like to kill his characters.. even with 2 Yonkos in the field.. which I just find it silly, really.

 

[Kai. Do]

I'm honestly kinda on the fence on this one.

On the one hand, yeah the alliance is unprepared, they failed to assassinate big mom on WCI, they could fail again at Luffy taking down kaido. And if it means that Luffy is gonna fight and lose to kaido multiple times before beating him then so be it.

What has me annoyed with Oda's writing is that: he always have these big set pieces and buildup, trying to convince the readers into luffy beating their unbeatable foes, then does a 180. The alliance always comes in unprepared and full of confidence, only to have their plans go wrong and then they are in trouble once again. Alliance vs Doffy first time they get their ass kicked, assassinating big mom failed, now going against kaido and luffy and zoro are being stopped by a mere Apoo. Were supposed to go from Luffy and zoro struggling against apoo, to Luffy beating kaido and zoro beating king all in the same arc.

I don't like the fact that the raid on Onigashima is honestly done without much thought and preparation (their plans were uncovered in the end by Kanjuro), but they proceeded anyway. Yet even after they successfully infiltrated, before reaching kaido they get stopped by a apoo.

Here's the deliemma for me:

The alliance somehow beating kaido on their first try is unrealistic to me, but i would also find this annoying since just this damn raid has been put through all this buildup, if it were just to fail then it would be pretty anti-climactic and a waste of time imo. I don't think anyone wants the final battle to be dragged on any longer, how long have we been waiting again?

But at the same time nothing convinces me thus far they will succeed, they haven't even reached kaido and they have already stuffed up, their disguses are found out, and luffy and zoro got stopped apoo. all signs point to them possibly failing to take down kaido this time, if they succeed, Oda is gonna have to pull some magic or bullshit up his arse for it to even work. and i still don't know if the answer he comes up with will be good or not. If they fail Oda has to come up with a excuse of why they survived and ran away to fight another day.

It makes the most sense to me that the raid on Onigashima would fail, but that would also mean prolonging a already dragged out arc. if they succeed, i have no idea how oda is gonna convince me that kaido's defeat makes sense.

We'll see what 'great' idea goda comes up with this time, I only hope to god that it's not WCI 2.0.
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To an extent.

First of all, I have to say that Big Mom is the massive wildcard, but one who will not be defeated here. There's too many loose ends to her story that cannot be resolved without Elbaf, Pudding and Lola present. And her crew are irrelevant to what the aim of the arc is- the defeat of Kaido and avenging Oden. She has to play a big role, I don't know what it will be, but I do not see fights against her crew.

Also, for the plan- Kin isn't in charge. Law is. He's the one calling the shots now that Kin has been bamboozled by Kan.

Also, I reckon Tama could be the one following the Strawhats as a stowaway.

Anyway, Kaido himself is unlikely to be defeated here. His crew and army will be.

It's taken Oda coming up to eighty chapters to arrange us at this point where all the characters are just starting converging at the one point. We've had the emotional heart of the arc and why it's happening, the Oden flashback. We've had the heroes suffer their defeats. The samurai have burnt their boats- its do or die time. The raid has been arranged to coincide with the full moon so the Minks can go Su Long.

It is simply too much of a reversal for Oda to have the Alliance utterly thrashed here. And then have to go right back to the drawing board and set up another gathering and seperation of characters to set up the fights. Not to mention juggling the plot around so that the totally defeated army aren't just murdered on the spot, and having to then spring some sort of mass prison break for them to be able to fight again. A total defeat here would be the equivalent of a total defeat in the Tower of Law in EL, it doesn't make sense.

However, Kaido by himself winning here, now that makes sense. It's a hell of a lot of work to set up another ten odd fights after the war. It's not much work to set up one final battle, and all the ingredients are already there. And it would fit in a lot of what we've seen in the past, we're the fights have all been done except for the main bad guy, who wins his battle against Luffy while the doomsday device in the background is going on. It's the Alabasta/Skypiea/TB (to an extent)/Dressrosa formula.

So we get the battle, everyone puts everything on the line, Neko shows up, the Minks go Su Long, the Numbers are defeated, the fodder are defeated, the Headliners are defeated, the Flying Six, Fukurokujo, the Calamities- but Luffy, Kid and Law simply can't beat Kaido. And everyone else has near killed themselves winning against the other Beast Pirates. Kaido himself will probably batter a couple for revenge. So he darts over to Wano proper with Orochi for the classic One Piece doomsday plot- he's going to kill everyone like him and Orochi threatened Oden with all those years ago. Ships too slow to get to Wano, even the Sunny. No way to get to Kaido on time. There's your tragedy to end Act Three- they've won the battle, but the cost is too high and they are going to lose the war

Then up pops the rightful Shogun who has been unable to use his DF and is a crybaby, a plot that's been going on since all the way back in PH. He steps up, becomes a man worthy of his father, overcomes his fear of flight, uses his DF and carries Luffy (and maybe Zoro) over after him, and that's where we get our final fight.

I like this idea! :cheers:

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

First of all @PuckTheGreat :
I agree with the point of the raid gonna failing, but I can see at least Orochi getting taking out so the wano allies will still hold hope in Luffy even after the lose, because they where able to take out Orochi and only probably lose because of the insane force of both Kaido and Big moms crew.

Overall I don´t think the numbers are stronger then the Flying six fighters.
I agree the point that at least vets as Daifuku,Oven and probably Compote don´t really coming close to a sweet commander lvl, at least Snack and Perospero beeing close(YC4lvl). But yes I kinda argee with you with the flying six aren´t the opposite to the Vets of Big mom, why?

The Flyers are a new group, take this kinda in mind.
Kaido and Big mom ruling now probably over 20years their territory and from balance perspective they where equal to that point. Which means even before Kaido making the flyers, they where probably equal(the crews). And we know that probably the Numbers beeing very long in Kaido crew as we see in Oden flashback. I think the counterparties to the Vets of Big mom are the Numbers and not the flyers.

For all the years the crew where most like equal:
Kaido-Big mom
Calamity- Sweet commanders
Numbers- Vets

The Flyers are most like Kaido newest and strongest group after the Calamity, he want to show them to Linlin, not the numbers or any other group, he is proud of the flyers as we see in the last chapters. The flyers are most like a new group with Kaido make after Whitebeard death. Doffy said the Yonkou didn´t do really something until know, we see some things change as Big mom try to became stronger with the power of the Germa. Kaido probably already became stronger with having the flyers.

The flyers are probably a step above the Vets-Numbers(I see only Pero/Snack matching them) and beeing very close to the lvl of a commander. Which means I can see Who´Who and Sasaki beeing YC3-3.5lvl and the others probably Yc4lvl. Oda hype the group very much in the last chapters and I think as the Calamity, the flyers are majorkeys and having a big role in Kaido crew overall.

Because that I place them above the Vets and Numbers and I think the flyers getting insane good feats.

Overall I totally agree you with the raid gonna fail in Onigashima and continue later overall in wano.

 

[K!NG HARA$H!MA]

What's the point if the raid fail now?

There's already so much build up

 

[Formerly Seth]

What's the point if the raid fail now?

There's already so much build up

Well, they are up against two Yonko and 2 of the main combatants from the alliance side got clowned by Apoo.
I don't see this Raid going well at least for now.