Jujutsu Kaisen 227 Spoilers and Discussion

[MonochromeYoru]

Who said Gojo's going all out?
What will you say when he shows even newer stuff?

Lime Green




But seriously, if this isn't Gojo at least trying hard, then I don't know what he's doing.

He's getting everything he tries countered. Is being forced to be reactive. Hasn't damaged Sukuna at all except for the small hit last chapter which Sukuna seems to have healed without it even being mentioned. Is pushed into having to use RCT constantly to heal his wounds and CT.

Gojo using Simple domain, Falling Blossom, now Miniature Domain etc are all him trying.
Because his normal options, Domain, Red, Hollow Purple etc are not working.

This is kinda how it went in Kenny vs Yuki too.
She got her shit countered. And her "new stuff" the supposed Trump card also got neutralised pretty easily.

I think Gege might go down that road again with Gojo doing a Sacrificial attack to take Sukuna with him. But unlike with Kenny vsvYuki, it would do significant damage.

 

[ConquistadoR]

He's getting everything he tries countered. Is being forced to be reactive. Hasn't damaged Sukuna at all except for the small hit last chapter which Sukuna seems to have healed without it even being mentioned. Is pushed into having to use RCT constantly to heal his wounds and CT.

It's the same for Sukuna.
He had to resort to Malevolent Shrine's must hit factor to even land a hit on Gojo.
Domain Amplification counters infinity but Gojo with even just Cursed Energy is so good & skilled at Close Quarters that it doesn't matter.

Their clash has basically been Domain clashes after that.
Gojo & Sukuna have a Domain clash where they are even inside, Gojo's barrier gets shattered from the outside & yet he is so good that he can heal up and fight even inside Sukuna's Domain.
They then try it another time with Gojo & Sukuna both changing barrier/must hit conditions to counter the opponents & when again Gojo loses, he can still wait with FBE until he heals his CT.
And now he's trying with something different again - probably increasing Potency by sacrificing range to force out Malevolent Shrine.

Gojo using Simple domain, Falling Blossom, now Miniature Domain etc are all him trying.
Because his normal options, Domain, Red, Hollow Purple etc are not working.

Same goes for Sukuna too though.
Basic Cleave, Dismantle are useless.
Domain Amplification was useless.
Malevolent Shrine barrage was healed against & warded off with CE through FBE.
And as you said, everytime Gojo's healing his technique post using a Domain - so is Sukuna because he's also been expanding his domain, same as Gojo.

His normal options are for people who are far weaker than him, this is just a very high level match between Domains.
The moment they're both exhausted, they'll go back to Cursed Energy & Cursed Technique manipulation where we can see even more.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Who said Gojo's going all out?
What will you say when he shows even newer stuff?

The difference is that we KNOW Sukuna has more than what he's shown while Gojo has to surprise us.

Thus there's more evidence Sukuna is holding back than Gojo.

Plus the fact that 10S still isn't out let alone "open" makes it kinda obvious whereas with Gojo your still in the speculation phase.

 

[Taixu]

The copium level is increasing, Gojo has used everything he had, at best he has a maximum purple, otherwise it would only be a convenient power up.

 

[matt245]

The copium level is increasing, Gojo has used everything he had, at best he has a maximum purple, otherwise it would only be a convenient power up.

He hasn't used everything tho. As Gege proved, Gojo has stuff that he always had yet he hasn't showed for... Reasons. Which means that he can pretty much justify anything that Gojo does by saying "mhmm duh, technique from big 3/gojo's clan(s) which he had from the beginning yet he never useed". Pretty cheap if you ask me

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

@ConquistadoR
Like Gojo probably has stuff, but does he have the equivalent of 10 shadows + open in his bag?

Let’s be real.

 

[park_min young]

@ConquistadoR
Like Gojo probably has stuff, but does he have the equivalent of 10 shadows + open in his bag?

Let’s be real.

Gojo has Gege on his side

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Gojo has Gege on his side

Doubt it. Gege loves wanking Sukuna

 

[FreezyBreeze]

Domain exp are cool as a one off attack, or to create a cool setting like Dagon's beach but I hate how they are being used here. And hopefully the sideline commentary from all these characters is over now.

 

[Ryuarashi]

Domain exp are cool as a one off attack, or to create a cool setting like Dagon's beach but I hate how they are being used here. And hopefully the sideline commentary from all these characters is over now.

You might wanna skip then chapter then.

 

[Taixu]

He hasn't used everything tho. As Gege proved, Gojo has stuff that he always had yet he hasn't showed for... Reasons. Which means that he can pretty much justify anything that Gojo does by saying "mhmm duh, technique from big 3/gojo's clan(s) which he had from the beginning yet he never useed". Pretty cheap if you ask me

Unfortunately yes, I would have liked at some point in the story to specify the number of secret techniques of the 3 Great Clans

 

[MonochromeYoru]

It's the same for Sukuna.
He had to resort to Malevolent Shrine's must hit factor to even land a hit on Gojo.
Domain Amplification counters infinity but Gojo with even just Cursed Energy is so good & skilled at Close Quarters that it doesn't matter.

Their clash has basically been Domain clashes after that.
Gojo & Sukuna have a Domain clash where they are even inside, Gojo's barrier gets shattered from the outside & yet he is so good that he can heal up and fight even inside Sukuna's Domain.
They then try it another time with Gojo & Sukuna both changing barrier/must hit conditions to counter the opponents & when again Gojo loses, he can still wait with FBE until he heals his CT.
And now he's trying with something different again - probably increasing Potency by sacrificing range to force out Malevolent Shrine.

It's clearly not the same lol. One is actually doing damage and forcing their opponent to use up CE for keeping up RCT throughout the fight.
The effort put out by both have been completely different.

The thing is though, it seems like anything Gojo can do with his domain, Sukuna can too.

Gojo altered his domain barrier configuration? Sukuna did the same or countered it.

So, there's no reason to believe that this new miniature domain technique would be the difference maker. Chances are, Sukuna already knows it and can counter.

But, same can't be said for Gojo. His Domain is inferior rn.

Same goes for Sukuna too though.
Basic Cleave, Dismantle are useless.
Domain Amplification was useless.
Malevolent Shrine barrage was healed against & warded off with CE through FBE.
And as you said, everytime Gojo's healing his technique post using a Domain - so is Sukuna because he's also been expanding his domain, same as Gojo.

His normal options are for people who are far weaker than him, this is just a very high level match between Domains.
The moment they're both exhausted, they'll go back to Cursed Energy & Cursed Technique manipulation where we can see even more.

Basic cleave and dismantle are what's damaging Gojo and forcing him to use RCT. It's also what's breaking his domain and forcing him to use simple domain/FBE/CT healing using RCT.

It's so clearly not useless. At the very least, it's dwindling Gojo's CE reserve. And Gojo is up against someone who has comparable CE efficiency and much much more CE reserves. Every little drop would matter.

Domain Amp is bypassing Gojo's infinity hax and letting Sukuna cqc, which he's been dominating too.

MS has been discarded only once as opposed to Unlimited void being discarded 2 or 3 times. So, more RCT is used up by Gojo to heal his CT.

The exhaustion thing is exactly my point. At the current rate the fight is going, Gojo is bound to be exhausted sooner than Sukuna. All these little things like effort level, RCT spam, Domain expansion spam, simple domain, FBE etc are gonna add up and catch Gojo from the back.




And like Kinyagi said, what we're seeing from Gojo is everything we know he has.

What we've seen from Sukuna is not. 10s, Black box stuff, his real CT, Yorozu's gift are all still unused.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Basic cleave and dismantle are what's damaging Gojo and forcing him to use RCT. It's also what's breaking his domain and forcing him to use simple domain/FBE/CT healing using RCT.

It's so clearly not useless. At the very least, it's dwindling Gojo's CE reserve. And Gojo is up against someone who has comparable CE efficiency and much much more CE reserves. Every little drop would matter.

Basic Cleave & Dismantle don't even bypass Infinity.
What's bypassing Infinity now is the Cleave & Dismantle imbued in Malevolent Shrine's Must Hit effect.

MS has been discarded only once as opposed to Unlimited void being discarded 2 or 3 times. So, more RCT is used up by Gojo to heal his CT.

MS has been used 2x. With the Small Barrier, Gojo used Infinite Void 3x.

Domain Amp is bypassing Gojo's infinity hax and letting Sukuna cqc, which he's been dominating too.

Sukuna didn't even hurt Gojo once while using Domain Amplification and no CT.
Gojo's simply too skilled at CE manipulation and CQC for that.

Domain Amp only neutralizes Infinity, it doesn't guarantee an attack landing on Gojo if he stops using Infinity & uses DA himself or just simple CE manipulation.

The exhaustion thing is exactly my point. At the current rate the fight is going, Gojo is bound to be exhausted sooner than Sukuna. All these little things like effort level, RCT spam, Domain expansion spam, simple domain, FBE etc are gonna add up and catch Gojo from the back.

We'll see.

And like Kinyagi said, what we're seeing from Gojo is everything we know he has.

What we've seen from Sukuna is not. 10s, Black box stuff, his real CT, Yorozu's gift are all still unused.

His "Real" CT is what he's been using so far.
Cleave & Dismantle are what he can realize with his Domain, not the Fire Arrow.

Odds are the "Open" stuff & 10 Shadows are extra in his arsenal, hence he cannot use them with his Domain.
Like how Kenjaku's DE contains his original CT being imbued into it and not Curse Manipulation.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Odds are the "Open" stuff & 10 Shadows are extra in his arsenal, hence he cannot use them with his Domain.
Like how Kenjaku's DE contains his original CT being imbued into it and not Curse Manipulation.

Is it this hard to accept that Sukuna is massively holding back?

We saw Sukuna use 10 shadows in someone else's domain (Yoruzu's), and say that he can use them in someone else's domain but not his own is MASSIVE cope lol

 

[ConquistadoR]

We saw Sukuna use 10 shadows in someone else's domain (Yoruzu's), and say that he can use them in someone else's domain but not his own is MASSIVE cope lol

Read what i wrote.

I said Sukuna cannot IMBUE his Domain with anything other than his own Cursed Technique.
He cannot use Chimera Shadow Garden, because that's Megumi's Domain & not his own.
We never saw Sukuna use "Open" in a Domain either.
Nor did Kenjaku use Cursed Spirit Manipulation as part of his Domain.

A Sorceror's Domain is his Own.
Even if you gather 10 more Cursed Techniques, your original Domain Expansion remains the same - it's basically your Innate Domain realized as an Environment.
Where you can imbue with your original Cursed Technique.
Sukuna used Ten Shadows CT as part of his Defense vs Yorozu's Domain's Sure Hit.
It's irrelevant to the current discussion.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Basic Cleave & Dismantle don't even bypass Infinity.
What's bypassing Infinity now is the Cleave & Dismantle imbued in Malevolent Shrine's Must Hit effect.

Aight.

MS has been used 2x. With the Small Barrier, Gojo used Infinite Void 3x.

Yeah. Sukuna recast only once. Gojo has recast twice. I said 2-3 lol.

Sukuna didn't even hurt Gojo once while using Domain Amplification and no CT.
Gojo's simply too skilled at CE manipulation and CQC for that.

Domain Amp only neutralizes Infinity, it doesn't guarantee an attack landing on Gojo if he stops using Infinity & uses DA himself or just simple CE manipulation.

They've both been landing hits on each other in cqc. But those are not significant to show everytime. But Sukuna has been controlling the fight from the start. Gojo having to dodge, block and reinforce with CE is due to Sukuna dominating him.

His "Real" CT is what he's been using so far.
Cleave & Dismantle are what he can realize with his Domain, not the Fire Arrow.

If that was his real CT, we would already have a name for it and a narrator box explaining it. It's pretty obvious that there's more to his CT than just dismantle and cleave. That's why there is so much speculation and theory around his CT name and stuff.

Odds are the "Open" stuff & 10 Shadows are extra in his arsenal, hence he cannot use them with his Domain.
Like how Kenjaku's DE contains his original CT being imbued into it and not Curse Manipulation.

We'll see. But I don't think so. Open is simple enough to use for him from what we've seen. He literally used it while his domain was active in shibuya against Mahoraga iirc.

And I don't see why 10s should not be usable with his CT. Mahoraga wheel could in theory be easily used while he fights normally. His fight against Yorozu even hints at it. She asks him to use his stuff. He just refuses and says she ain't worth it. Not that he can't.


It's more likely that he's not using them out of pride. He thinks he can beat Gojo with his own stuff. And so far, he ain't wrong.

 

[ConquistadoR]

If that was his real CT, we would already have a name for it and a narrator box explaining it. It's pretty obvious that there's more to his CT than just dismantle and cleave

His CT is Shrine and probably allows him to store other CTs alongside ones like Dismantle & Cleave.

We'll see. But I don't think so. Open is simple enough to use for him from what we've seen. He literally used it while his domain was active in shibuya against Mahoraga iirc.

He only used Open after MS went away after turning Mahoraga into Paste.

And I don't see why 10s should not be usable with his CT. Mahoraga wheel could in theory be easily used while he fights normally. His fight against Yorozu even hints at it. She asks him to use his stuff. He just refuses and says she ain't worth it. Not that he can't.

I never said it can't be used with his CT, I said that technique cannot be imbued into his Domain as a Sure Hit.

 

[Ven437]

It really does feel like Sukuna has been holding back. We know for a fact he can summon the Maho wheel, get hit by Infinity or Blue or Red, then pass on the adaptability to Mahoraga. That would be a game changer yet he has been doing nothing but use old tricks instead of his new body‘s tricks. Maybe to show he doesn’t need 10S to win?

The condensed barrier might be a game changer for Gojo but as of now Sukuna has all the upper hand since he still has more techs and secrets in his bag. Gojo is clearly being pushed towards his limits. If Sukuna didn’t have Mahoraga I would even say Gojo could win but there’s just no way not unless he gets hit by major PIS like BM not using ACoC levels of PIS.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

We never saw Sukuna use "Open" in a Domain either.

How do you explain the dialogue in the bottom two panels?

"Isn't Sukuna's technique slicing everything?"

"Don't worry I won't cheat by revealing my technique."

This interaction directly implies that the flames and open are a part of Sukuna's technique, so there's no reason to think he couldn't imbue them in his domain.

In fact, it's pretty obvious that the entire chapter is literally there to tell the reader that Sukuna's technique is not to dismantle and cleave.

Plus the arrow obviously has (?much?) higher AP.

The only obvious reason why Sukuna isn't using it, which is the same obvious reason that he's not using Mahoraga...

Is that he's holding back.

Cope.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2023

It really does feel like Sukuna has been holding back. We know for a fact he can summon the Maho wheel, get hit by Infinity or Blue or Red, then pass on the adaptability to Mahoraga. That would be a game changer yet he has been doing nothing but use old tricks instead of his new body‘s tricks. Maybe to show he doesn’t need 10S to win?

The condensed barrier might be a game changer for Gojo but as of now Sukuna has all the upper hand since he still has more techs and secrets in his bag. Gojo is clearly being pushed towards his limits. If Sukuna didn’t have Mahoraga I would even say Gojo could win but there’s just no way not unless he gets hit by major PIS like BM not using ACoC levels of PIS.

Exactly lol

You already know from him not using the Mahoraga wheel that he's holding back, it's not a large stretch to say that's not the only thing he hasn't brought out.

 

[ConquistadoR]

"Isn't Sukuna's technique slicing everything?"

"Don't worry I won't cheat by revealing my technique."

This interaction directly implies that the flames and open are a part of Sukuna's technique, so there's no reason to think he couldn't imbue them in his domain.

His Cursed Technique is Shrine, we know that very well & that probably is how he can store other Cursed Techniques like that Fire Bomb or Ten Shadows.

The whole point is that he cannot use those inside his Domain, atleast he hasn't used anything except Cleave & Dismantle in his Domain as Sure Hit, yet.

Not that he cannot use it in battle in general.