Bougya Divergent Paths

Blazing Lion

Blazing Lion

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#1
#1
Clickbait title and tag. This is not about Rootbeer and his theories.

Read somewhere on this forum a comparison of how Zoro and Sanji in Onigashima and how it might affect things down the road.

Both Zoro and Sanji had an internal conflict during their fights against King and Queen. While Sanji's has been more developed, Zoro's is less clear and shorter.

Sanji has hated his family throughout his life. Now he gets the chance to help Luffy (more) and become very strong but doing so will turn him into the thing he has hated most. So Sanji has the option to stay true to himself and help Luffy in his own way or to lose himself and become an emotionless killing machine and help Luffy this way. Sanji chooses to stay true to himself and destroys the tool (rejects power), he chooses humanity over science and becomes his own version of Warrior of Science.

Zoro has had the ambition of becoming the WSS but through his journey with Luffy he has had to sacrifice his life and ambition on occasion (Kuma and Mihawk). He has limited himself and during the King fight, he gets tested for it. He questions his own power and Enma tests him. His choice is limiting himself (stabilizing haki) or accepting and pushing himself (going all out) and Zoro chooses to accept his ambition/power (King's question) and gets power (ACoC and Enma mastery). He chooses to become King of Hell himself and help Luffy in his own way.

Basically the thing is that we get Sanji staying true to himself and rejecting power while Zoro remembers/accepts his ambition and accepting power.
 
Sir Yasheen

Sir Yasheen

‎
#2
#2
The way I’ve seen oda writing Zoro and Sanji is they’re defined by their Future and History respectively.

Zoros strength and his character completely revolves around what he will be. He doesn’t care about where he came from or who his family was, his mind is incredibly focused on one thing, becoming the WSS. It’s why oda didn’t mind dropping Zoros family tree in an SBS because in all honesty, it doesn’t matter. Zoro could be nobility or commoner and it wouldn’t change Zoros path. Zoros story very much feels like he’s a character who could be a main character for a shonen manga because those tropes about I don’t care who I am, just what I’m going to be are a common theme.

Sanjis strength and his character revolves around what he is. His family history and past is what makes him stronger and his story revolves around the past catching up to him. It’s why oda keeps dropping more and more lore on Sanjis history because his history is what makes Sanji who he is. Every person in his life has affected him. His mother gave him his passion, Judge gave him genetics, and Zeff gave him his values. Just as Zoro feels like he’d be an MC of a shonen manga, Sanji feels like he could be an MC of an American comic book and honestly it feels like oda took a lot of inspiration from Superman comics when writing Sanji in regards to powerful genetics from his blood family but values from his adopted family and themes of being defined by your past is incredibly common in these comics.

TLDR: I agree oda has made these characters to nicely diverge and I think that divergence is what will be the catalyst for their next power. Zoros about gaining a Black Blade and Sanjis about digging into the lore of DJ.
 
H

Herrera95

#5
#5
Blazing Lion said:
Sanji chooses to stay true to himself and destroys the tool (rejects power)
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And ended up getting a power up anyway...

Blazing Lion said:
Zoro has had the ambition of becoming the WSS but through his journey with Luffy he has had to sacrifice his life and ambition on occasion (Kuma and Mihawk).
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Dude Mihawk fight has nothing to do with Luffy. Zoro since went to sea all he wanted was to met Mihawk and challenge him. This would happen with or without Luffy. Only Kuma he risked his life. And at Hakai too. And saving him from Kaido mouth.
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Blazing Lion said:
Zoro chooses to accept his ambition/power (King's question) and gets power (ACoC and Enma mastery).
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He already did that when he used Asura on Kaido
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Blazing Lion said:
Basically the thing is that we get Sanji staying true to himself and rejecting power while Zoro remembers/accepts his ambition and accepting power.
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Both stayed true to theirselves and accepted the power. I'm not seeing Sanji negating his power when fighting Queen. He only made sure to be killed if he couldn't turn back.
 
Blazing Lion

Blazing Lion

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#6
#6
Herrera95 said:
And ended up getting a power up anyway...


Dude Mihawk fight has nothing to do with Luffy. Zoro since went to sea all he wanted was to met Mihawk and challenge him. This would happen with or without Luffy. Only Kuma he risked his life. And at Hakai too. And saving him from Kaido mouth.
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He already did that when he used Asura on Kaido
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Both stayed true to theirselves and accepted the power. I'm not seeing Sanji negating his power when fighting Queen. He only made sure to be killed if he couldn't turn back.
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Sanji destroyed the raid suit, how is that not rejecting the power, he literally has that inner monologue and decides not to use the RS which would give him the power to kill monsters like Queen very easily etc.

Zoro has been shown to put his WSS dream on the backfoot a few times.
 
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Herrera95

#7
#7
Blazing Lion said:
Sanji destroyed the raid suit, how is that not rejecting the power, he literally has that inner monologue and decides not to use the RS which would give him the power to kill monsters like Queen very easily etc.

Zoro has been shown to put his WSS dream on the backfoot a few times.
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He rejected power but still used it well aware of it. And is doing it again at Egghead. Oda pretty much just did that because people complained so much Sanji don't getting stronger by himself and relying on Raid Suit.

And yes Zoro put his WSS dream for Luffy. What is the point?
 
Blazing Lion

Blazing Lion

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#8
#8
Herrera95 said:
He rejected power but still used it well aware of it. And is doing it again at Egghead. Oda pretty much just did that because people complained so much Sanji don't getting stronger by himself and relying on Raid Suit.

And yes Zoro put his WSS dream for Luffy. What is the point?
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I am saying Sanji could be stronger with RS and Exo and not just Exo.

Maybe I was unable to make myself clear, there is quite a lot of character things being shown in the Zoro vs King fight and most of that has been ignored in favor of power scaling.

What does Zoro say when King asks him about Kingly ambitions? What happened before that, Zoro is being tested by Enma, Zoro has to prove his worth to the sword?
At the end we again get the Zoro and Luffy Baratie flashback and then Zoro answers "Guess I might as well become the King of Hell".
 
H

Herrera95

#9
#9
Blazing Lion said:
Maybe I was unable to make myself clear, there is quite a lot of character things being shown in the Zoro vs King fight and most of that has been ignored in favor of power scaling.

What does Zoro say when King asks him about Kingly ambitions? What happened before that, Zoro is being tested by Enma, Zoro has to prove his worth to the sword?
At the end we again get the Zoro and Luffy Baratie flashback and then Zoro answers "Guess I might as well become the King of Hell".
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There was a bit about his character but not that what you are saying.

Enma is not testing a shit. It just a messed up sword Oda came up with and couldn't figured out how to work it proper. Enma is not a power up, not a trainning tool, it only nerfs Zoro and it was only shown to have this kind of shit with him. Oden was told to use Enma since his 8. Why is that? My best theory was because Oden left his swords to his children and not to a foreing. Different from Ryuuma letting Shusui directly to Zoro.

King of Hell was out of nowhere. There is nothing related to that instead of the name Enma that was never brought on the manga itself.
 
Blazing Lion

Blazing Lion

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#10
#10
Herrera95 said:
There was a bit about his character but not that what you are saying.

Enma is not testing a shit. It just a messed up sword Oda came up with and couldn't figured out how to work it proper. Enma is not a power up, not a trainning tool, it only nerfs Zoro and it was only shown to have this kind of shit with him. Oden was told to use Enma since his 8. Why is that? My best theory was because Oden left his swords to his children and not to a foreing. Different from Ryuuma letting Shusui directly to Zoro.

King of Hell was out of nowhere. There is nothing related to that instead of the name Enma that was never brought on the manga itself.
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:okay:
 
Peroroncino

Peroroncino

🅷🅰🅻🅰 🅼🅰🅳🆁🅸🅳
‎
#11
#11
Herrera95 said:
There was a bit about his character but not that what you are saying.

Enma is not testing a shit. It just a messed up sword Oda came up with and couldn't figured out how to work it proper. Enma is not a power up, not a trainning tool, it only nerfs Zoro and it was only shown to have this kind of shit with him. Oden was told to use Enma since his 8. Why is that? My best theory was because Oden left his swords to his children and not to a foreing. Different from Ryuuma letting Shusui directly to Zoro.

King of Hell was out of nowhere. There is nothing related to that instead of the name Enma that was never brought on the manga itself.
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the king of hell name is a parallel to Rayleigh actually, it doesnt translate well to english but basically Rayleigh is king of the western hell while zoro is of the eastern one, hence their epithets Mei ou and En Ou or something like that
 
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