Chapter Discussion Translations based on the Japanese text

[Elder Lee Hung]

The moment Lee entered the thread it became a place for powerscaling and LadmiraLtardation

I haven’t mentioned Admiral power levels once here and don’t plan to lol.

But in this case Sentomaru doesnt need specific orders he can just say attack the fleet. This term would encompass all enemies there.

If that were the case, any and every battle could simply be won by commanding your troops to attack the enemy and then committing suicide lol. But that’s not how things work. The army that fights with tactics will always [usually] beat the one that doesn’t. And Kizaru recognized this by targeting Sentomaru first because a Pacifista armada being lead by a commander is much, much more dangerous than a Pacifista armada by itself.

Yeah I know and I think Saturn doesnt care much about loss of life, check this panel out:

I just went back and checked Saturn’s reaction: yeah he was definitely spooked by the idea of Sentomaru leading the Pacifista. Meaning he simply had not considered the threat posed by Sentomaru.

Which reinforces Saturn being incompetent as opposed to not caring.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2023

Btw thoughts on what I wrote about Luffy?

In this thread? Quote me?

 

[Fujishiro]

Which reinforces Saturn being incompetent as opposed to not caring.

I think its him not caring, heck even after Kizaru told him about Sento and the pacifista he said '' I do not wish to drag this out too long'' meaning he wants this whole order done with fast. I dont think he seemed spooked by Sento can you point out the panel?

In this thread? Quote me?

I think Luffy isnt afraid or worried about himself but moreso about his crew and the vegas he swore to protect, this isnt like the raid on Onigashima where everyone was battle ready and Luffy could count on others to protect his weaker crewmates while he went and fought Kaido whereas here a strong guy appears suddenly hence the reaction. Because since the start of this manga no matter how much stronger an enemy is then Luffy the latter has never ever shown fear for himself.

This is still Kizaru hype for me though because that means Luffy considers Kizaru to be a threat meaning he will have his hands full with him and Kizaru can hurt his crew easily.

Basically Luffy has never shown fear towards anything even opponent many times stronger then him so I think the look he has is moreso him being spooked by an opponent threatening enough that can and might cause harm to his friends and hes gonna have to put his mind into fighting him and only him. He believed this whole thing wasnt gonna turn into a battle and now he's put into a battle situation.

Thoughts?

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Sentomaru did just that though once Kizaru started the attack, he didnt change his means of attack to avoid that outcome.

This is fine to me, Kizaru is a military commander whereas Saturn isnt. I wouldnt say this makes him a bumbling buffoon like you tried to portray him as.

I think Luffy isnt afraid or worried about himself but moreso about his crew and the vegas he swore to protect, this isnt like the raid on Onigashima where everyone was battle ready and Luffy could count on others to protect his weaker crewmates while he went and fought Kaido whereas here a strong guy appears suddenly hence the reaction. Because since the start of this manga no matter how much stronger an enemy is then Luffy the latter has never ever shown fear for himself.

This is still Kizaru hype for me though because that means Luffy considers Kizaru to be a threat meaning he will have his hands full with him and Kizaru can hurt his crew easily.

Thoughts?

I do think it's unlikely Luffy would fear for himself, simply not his character.
I'm going to piss Zoro fans but IMO Luffy instictively shivering combined with his very serious expression as soon as he felt Kizaru would imply that he sees the power of the person he sensed as an existential threat to his crew/friends that they can't handle by themselves. After 1090 chapters it should be clear that happy-go-lucky Luffy is not the type to panic at the first threat. He doesn't baby or coddle his friends, if any he tend to trusts them in situations where they are clearly outmatched (see him letting Ulti & P1 go after Usopp & Nami lol, he encouraged Momo to stand up and attack Kaido).
He's a guy who relies on his animal-like instincts, and his instincts are teling him that the guy he sensed is very dangerous.
And for that reason it reinforces that Luffy vs Kizaru is happening imo

 

[Fujishiro]

I do think it's unlikely Luffy would fear for himself, simply not his character.
I'm going to piss Zoro fans but IMO Luffy instictively shivering combined with his very serious expression as soon as he felt Kizaru would imply that he sees the power of the person he sensed as an existential threat to his crew/friends that they can't handle by themselves. After 1090 chapters it should be clear that happy-go-lucky Luffy is not the type to panic at the first threat. He doesn't baby or coddle his friends, if any he tend to trusts them in situations where they are clearly outmatched (see him letting Ulti & P1 go after Usopp & Nami lol, he encouraged Momo to stand up and attack Kaido).
He's a guy who relies on his animal-like instincts, and his instincts are teling him that the guy he sensed is very dangerous.
And for that reason it reinforces that Luffy vs Kizaru is happening imo

Yeah they are gonna fight, if nothing else Luffy will do it because his crew and the vegas are now in clear danger whereas before it was just gonna be a quick trip to Elbaf.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I think its him not caring, heck even after Kizaru told him about Sento and the pacifista he said '' I do not wish to drag this out too long'' meaning he wants this whole order done with fast. I dont think he seemed spooked by Sento can you point out the panel?

This is Saturn’s reaction to Kizaru telling him about Sentomaru and the Pacifista/Sea Beasts:

To me this is a pretty straightforward confirmation that Saturn pretty much hadn’t even considered Sentomaru and the threat he posed. It definitely looks like Saturn is very much concerned about keeping casualties to a minimum. Just look at his body language and expression. Lol

Basically Luffy has never shown fear towards anything even opponent many times stronger then him so I think the look he has is moreso him being spooked by an opponent threatening enough that can and might cause harm to his friends and hes gonna have to put his mind into fighting him and only him. He believed this whole thing wasnt gonna turn into a battle and now he's put into a battle situation.

Thoughts?

I have always said that half of the shit people cite when it comes to power levels are wrong, and I’ve told other Admiral fans that I do not believe Luffy’s facial expression is actually confirmation that he is weaker than Kizaru or really can give us any insight at all about Luffy vs Kizaru.

Honestly I mainly just think Luffy was surprised at the sudden arrival of someone as powerful as Kizaru. Like Kizaru pretty much showed up right next to the Straw Hats instantly. One second everything is normal, and the next Luffy is sensing an Admiral level motherfucker out of nowhere right next to them lmfao. His reaction, imo, was probably 80% surprise.

The point of Admiral fans throwing this panel in the face of Yonko fans is to show their hypocrisy. You know if the tables were turned, if this were how Luffy reacted to a Yonko after the way Yonko fans say he reacted to Ryokugyu, Yonko fans would never shut up about it and would use it to argue Yonko > Admiral.

So Admiral fans are throwing the inverse argument in their face to show them their own hypocrisy.

Does this image mean Kizaru > Kaido? No lol, the point is to punch Yonko fans in the face with their own stupidity. Because you know as well as I do that this is exactly how Yonko tards powerscale.

But ofc in actuality Luffy’s reaction to Kizaru in this circumstance tells us almost nothing about the power level of either. The reaction to this panel from Admiral fans (me) is purely in the service of agenda lol. And ofc it’s nice to see a Yonko poop themselves over Kizaru’s arrival when according to Yonko fans “Luffy laughed at Ryokugyu!” (He didn’t)

 

[Fujishiro]

This is Saturn’s reaction to Kizaru telling him about Sentomaru and the Pacifista/Sea Beasts:

To me this is a pretty straightforward confirmation that Saturn pretty much hadn’t even considered Sentomaru and the threat he posed. It definitely looks like Saturn is very much concerned about keeping casualties to a minimum. Just look at his body language and expression. Lol

Maybe Im reading too much into it then.

I have always said that half of the shit people cite when it comes to power levels are wrong, and I’ve told other Admiral fans that I do not believe Luffy’s facial expression is actually confirmation that he is weaker than Kizaru or really can give us any insight at all about Luffy vs Kizaru.

Honestly I mainly just think Luffy was surprised at the sudden arrival of someone as powerful as Kizaru. Like Kizaru pretty much showed up right next to the Straw Hats instantly. One second everything is normal, and the next Luffy is sensing an Admiral level motherfucker out of nowhere right next to them lmfao. His reaction, imo, was probably 80% surprise.

The point of Admiral fans throwing this panel in the face of Yonko fans is to show their hypocrisy. You know if the tables were turned, if this were how Luffy reacted to a Yonko after the way Yonko fans say he reacted to Ryokugyu, Yonko fans would never shut up about it and would use it to argue Yonko > Admiral.

So Admiral fans are throwing the inverse argument in their face to show them their own hypocrisy.

Does this image mean Kizaru > Kaido? No lol, the point is to punch Yonko fans in the face with their own stupidity. Because you know as well as I do that this is exactly how Yonko tards powerscale.

But ofc in actuality Luffy’s reaction to Kizaru in this circumstance tells us almost nothing about the power level of either. The reaction to this panel from Admiral fans (me) is purely in the service of agenda lol. And ofc it’s nice to see a Yonko poop themselves over Kizaru’s arrival when according to Yonko fans “Luffy laughed at Ryokugyu!” (He didn’t)

Someone in another forum very aptly explained the Luffy situation here:

''So let me preface this by saying that Luffy definitely considers Kizaru to be a powerful and formidable presence. But I reckon that his reaction was exacerbated by a jumpscare factor. Put yourself in his shoes, in one moment you don't even sense Kizaru on your radar and then BAM he's right down the road. Kizaru snapped there SO FAST that it must have felt similarly to a car suddenly coming at you. Or like a FNAF animatronic suddenly appearing by your doorlights.

All I'm saying is that Zunesha definitely heard the pounding of drums again. Luffy's king engine. ''

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Maybe Im reading too much into it then.



Someone in another forum very aptly explained the Luffy situation here:

''So let me preface this by saying that Luffy definitely considers Kizaru to be a powerful and formidable presence. But I reckon that his reaction was exacerbated by a jumpscare factor. Put yourself in his shoes, in one moment you don't even sense Kizaru on your radar and then BAM he's right down the road. Kizaru snapped there SO FAST that it must have felt similarly to a car suddenly coming at you. Or like a FNAF animatronic suddenly appearing by your doorlights.

All I'm saying is that Zunesha definitely heard the pounding of drums again. Luffy's king engine. ''

I mean I don’t think Luffy would react like this to the sudden appearance of King or Yamato lol, but like if Big Mom just suddenly appeared then yeah I imagine Luffy would be in shock of her aura like he was for Kizaru.

Again just reinforcing that Yonko/Admirals/Pirate King are relative.

 

[Fujishiro]

I mean I don’t think Luffy would react like this to the sudden appearance of King or Yamato lol, but like if Big Mom just suddenly appeared then yeah I imagine Luffy would be in shock of her aura like he was for Kizaru.

Kizaru is a threat, he needs to put his mind and body into fighting him and only him. This was basically a wake up call for Luffy, he thought they were just gonna escape casually and now he's put into a battle situation with a crew + vegas to protect against someone that can easily hurt them.

Ofc he wouldnt react like that to King or Yamato because they are not threats to him and his crew.

Again just reinforcing that Yonko/Admirals/Pirate King are relative.

Aye.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Kizaru is a threat, he needs to put his mind and body into fighting him and only him. This was basically a wake up call for Luffy, he thought they were just gonna escape casually and now he's put into a battle situation with a crew + vegas to protect against someone that can easily hurt them.

Ofc he wouldnt react like that to King or Yamato because they are not threats to him and his crew.


Aye.

Basically this. The point of the scene to present Kizaru as a legit, serious threat. Considering how far we are in the story, and the strenght of Luffy and his crew at this point this is top tier portrayal.
Imagine there are people who argue Oda would have Luffy react like this & make such cliffhanger from King or Queen suddenly appearing (saw it on french twitter lmao)