Controversial General Political Discussion
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The hamas is just the monstruous face of some Palestinian's anger and despair. This is how radicalization works. Release the pressure and the people will themself put the hamas down. Do you really think that given the chance Palestinian will prefer war over and nice real country ? Of course not. And if the hamas really becames a problems, they will deal with it, or there will be international sanctions and war if necessary.
The problem is therefore not the hamas. The problem is the dehumanization of Palestianians by the FAR RIGHT gov of Israel, the oppressions and the colonization.
If you want the Hamas down, fight the colonization process and give a real territory to palestinians. SIMPLE.
The problem is therefore not the hamas. The problem is the dehumanization of Palestianians by the FAR RIGHT gov of Israel, the oppressions and the colonization.
If you want the Hamas down, fight the colonization process and give a real territory to palestinians. SIMPLE.
I will agree with you there,but Hamas is a real thing.They want Israel wiped of the map.Hamas existence is a constant threat to Israeli lives.I don't see any other solution for Israel.They don't much choice other than to fight.
I get you.
You guys are making up to many hypotheses. The reality is: Israel just suffered one of the largest terrorists attacks in History.Hamas has being killing Israelis for decades.Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map.There is no solving this with dialogue anymore.Hamas needs to go.It will be better for everyone.
After the tatical air strike is done.Israel will send 400 thousand soldiers to fight off Hamas.We can expect those 30-40 thousand Hamas fighters to all be killed+a few thousand civillians killed.We will NOT see millions of casualties here.
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I get you.
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You guys are making up to many hypotheses. The reality is: Israel just suffered one of the largest terrorists attacks in History.Hamas has being killing Israelis for decades.Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map.There is no solving this with dialogue anymore.Hamas needs to go.It will be better for everyone.
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After the tatical air strike is done.Israel will send 400 thousand soldiers to fight off Hamas.We can expect those 30-40 thousand Hamas fighters to all be killed+a few thousand civillians killed.We will NOT see millions of casualties here.
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I wouldn't be so sure of that. Like all radicalized group, Hamas is constituated of angry citizen, give those citizen a free space and a reason to live and not fight and they will calm down. There might always be some strong antisemits and war monger here and there, but once they will saw their mother, father, son and daughter live happely.. Why would they fight for ideology ? Most of the warrior will calm down, just like warriors of daesh calmed down.
The real threat to Israel life right now, is the far right at their government. Its ALWAYS the far right.
Once you give a country to palestinian and the possibility for them to construct a real life, only then they will get rid of the hamas.
But the only way to get rid of the hamas right now, is a genocide. Israel is a big boy, they have ressources to defend themself without attacking. So they better make the right choice.
Yeah, don't listen to the guy with science, humanity and fact on his side, you might be proven wrong. lol
The real threat to Israel life right now, is the far right at their government. Its ALWAYS the far right.
Once you give a country to palestinian and the possibility for them to construct a real life, only then they will get rid of the hamas.
But the only way to get rid of the hamas right now, is a genocide. Israel is a big boy, they have ressources to defend themself without attacking. So they better make the right choice.
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Yeah, don't listen to the guy with science, humanity and fact on his side, you might be proven wrong. lol
Even if fucking Stalin himself was the prime minister of Israel this attack would have happened anyway.Left x Right has nothing to do with the Palestine issue.This is a clash of civilizations.They are fighting over land and religion.You are so fucking biased that you can't see we are dealing with different cultures here.
The US is already sending everything they need.I think they will bury Hamas forever these next few days.
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The US is already sending everything they need.I think they will bury Hamas forever these next few days.
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I don't see Hamas releasing those hostages anytime soon even if Israel plays along with everything they demand.I don't see why Israel should not just raid Gaza and make short work of Hamas even if it means there is severe collateral damage.I hope this doesn't happen.I wish to be wrong,but i don't see any other outcome other than full escalation of the conflict.
https://www.drudgereport.com/
Just read the news.Israel is preparing for war.What will happen next is obvious.
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https://www.drudgereport.com/
Just read the news.Israel is preparing for war.What will happen next is obvious.
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That's the problem.. you don't see it.
Its ALWAYS about left VS right. Always. Simply because its always about a clash of value. Do you don't find it strange that most strong leftist fight for Palestinians rights while most far right people are supporting the Israelian's strikes ?
Don't you find it odd that Biden is somehow against my ideals ? Why do you think you are neutral on the subject ?
You don't see the "matrix" here. Its always about right VS left.
You need to understand that when I'm talking about left and right, I'm not talking about political party but values in conflicts with eachothers. For example Colonialism VS human right. Quite easy to understand.. right ?
Wrong. If it was easy the Israel gov wouldn't be continuing their colonization. That's the thing. Even behind the worst value, their is always a reasonning. For Israel and Zionism, its to get back a mythological country that they deems as their own. The question is who has what values ?
And the world is done quite interestingly.. you will often see a set of value more in a side of the political spectrum (left) and another in the other side (right).
The problem is.. the right. is always wrong. (well mostly)
Wrong in the sence that they are basing there value on myth / desinformation / Antiscience / Illogical concepts and retrograde ideas.
But for them, as it is for you I'm sure.. they are right.
Let me explain: We live in a world of science. Of fact. Of logic. Of progressism. Therefore ideas like:
- freewill
- Merit
- Individualism
- Conservatism
- Colonization
- Racism
- Fascism
- Antisemitism
- Liberalism
- Capitalism
Etc.
Are not fit for our world, they are therefore wrong. So.. What does this have to do with the palestine issue ? Well. Look at the values in conflict:
- On one side we have colonization because of a myth. We have the dehumanization of an entire population. A far right government that values strenght and power. A people who is ready to wipe out millions of citizen.
- On the other we have a people in perdition, colonized and oppressed people who sometimes resort to monstruosity to fight back but value determination to stay alive and fight the oppressor.
You still don't see why the left is helping palestinian even in the case of monstrusity like hamas ? The left is on the side of the oppressed like it always was. The right... the liberals, the capitalist and the far right.. is on the side of the oppressor. On the WRONG side.
- Biden..
- Macron..
- Netanyahou..
Right.. Right.. Far right.
Little fun fact for you. In france, thegovernement just decided to authorized the protestation in favor of Israel and arrest any protestor in favor of the palestine.
The Far right and authoritarians and the right and the liberals are ALWAYS wrong. From Hitler, to Staline, to Netanyahou to Macron to Biden.. they are wrong, dead wrong. They are on the wrong side of the world, on the wrong side of history.
I can't prove it to you now. You will just have to wait.. maybe 50 maybe 70 years... but you will see why I'm right.
The secret is simple: The right VS left is not about about a equal clash of values. Its about a clash of right VS wrong values.
---
Now, there are only two ways to end the conflict and end Hamas:
- The wrong way: To make a genocide or to kick palestinians out of their home thus legitimizing colonization
or
- The right way: For Israel to take responsibility for their crime, stop the colonization process, stop the oppressions and offer lands to palestinians.
The conflict could end in ONE WEEK.
But to have peace, you need to want peace first.
Its ALWAYS about left VS right. Always. Simply because its always about a clash of value. Do you don't find it strange that most strong leftist fight for Palestinians rights while most far right people are supporting the Israelian's strikes ?
Don't you find it odd that Biden is somehow against my ideals ? Why do you think you are neutral on the subject ?
You don't see the "matrix" here. Its always about right VS left.
You need to understand that when I'm talking about left and right, I'm not talking about political party but values in conflicts with eachothers. For example Colonialism VS human right. Quite easy to understand.. right ?
Wrong. If it was easy the Israel gov wouldn't be continuing their colonization. That's the thing. Even behind the worst value, their is always a reasonning. For Israel and Zionism, its to get back a mythological country that they deems as their own. The question is who has what values ?
And the world is done quite interestingly.. you will often see a set of value more in a side of the political spectrum (left) and another in the other side (right).
The problem is.. the right. is always wrong. (well mostly)
Wrong in the sence that they are basing there value on myth / desinformation / Antiscience / Illogical concepts and retrograde ideas.
But for them, as it is for you I'm sure.. they are right.
Let me explain: We live in a world of science. Of fact. Of logic. Of progressism. Therefore ideas like:
- freewill
- Merit
- Individualism
- Conservatism
- Colonization
- Racism
- Fascism
- Antisemitism
- Liberalism
- Capitalism
Etc.
Are not fit for our world, they are therefore wrong. So.. What does this have to do with the palestine issue ? Well. Look at the values in conflict:
- On one side we have colonization because of a myth. We have the dehumanization of an entire population. A far right government that values strenght and power. A people who is ready to wipe out millions of citizen.
- On the other we have a people in perdition, colonized and oppressed people who sometimes resort to monstruosity to fight back but value determination to stay alive and fight the oppressor.
You still don't see why the left is helping palestinian even in the case of monstrusity like hamas ? The left is on the side of the oppressed like it always was. The right... the liberals, the capitalist and the far right.. is on the side of the oppressor. On the WRONG side.
- Biden..
- Macron..
- Netanyahou..
Right.. Right.. Far right.
Little fun fact for you. In france, thegovernement just decided to authorized the protestation in favor of Israel and arrest any protestor in favor of the palestine.
The Far right and authoritarians and the right and the liberals are ALWAYS wrong. From Hitler, to Staline, to Netanyahou to Macron to Biden.. they are wrong, dead wrong. They are on the wrong side of the world, on the wrong side of history.
I can't prove it to you now. You will just have to wait.. maybe 50 maybe 70 years... but you will see why I'm right.
The secret is simple: The right VS left is not about about a equal clash of values. Its about a clash of right VS wrong values.
---
Now, there are only two ways to end the conflict and end Hamas:
- The wrong way: To make a genocide or to kick palestinians out of their home thus legitimizing colonization
or
- The right way: For Israel to take responsibility for their crime, stop the colonization process, stop the oppressions and offer lands to palestinians.
The conflict could end in ONE WEEK.
But to have peace, you need to want peace first.
>Try to evacuate the highest number of civilians possible- this would avoid Hamas using civilians as shield. If possible with ONU overseeing things to avoid accusations of leaving people to die or other things that crazy fanatics say.
>At the same time send the army in a operation to capture or kill every know member of Hamas. When in doubt just capture.
>After that, transform the Gaza into a autonomous region under the supervision of Israel/ONU. They would have autonomy to live and govern themselves but they would not be a independent state. They should also have a say in Israel politics (similar to how a state can send senators to participate on the legislative). Basically it would work like Tibet but this procedure would have a time limit (let's say 60 years) and after that they would be recognized as a legitimate independent and sovereign state.
The reason for the last procedure is to help eliminate the risk of a enemy nation or group close to Israel and control of the region in a way that would give Israel a way to eliminate any attempts of a Hamas resurgence. At the same time, giving Palestinians autonomy and the ability to have a say in Israel politics will help bring dialogue and make Palestinians have a say in the laws that could be passed to avoid supression. The time limit is to make sure that a new generation would be in power and the generation that fought in the war in this era would not have a say, also the promise of freedom after a time would be a incentive to keep them quiet and avoid the creation of a new group.
>At the same time send the army in a operation to capture or kill every know member of Hamas. When in doubt just capture.
>After that, transform the Gaza into a autonomous region under the supervision of Israel/ONU. They would have autonomy to live and govern themselves but they would not be a independent state. They should also have a say in Israel politics (similar to how a state can send senators to participate on the legislative). Basically it would work like Tibet but this procedure would have a time limit (let's say 60 years) and after that they would be recognized as a legitimate independent and sovereign state.
The reason for the last procedure is to help eliminate the risk of a enemy nation or group close to Israel and control of the region in a way that would give Israel a way to eliminate any attempts of a Hamas resurgence. At the same time, giving Palestinians autonomy and the ability to have a say in Israel politics will help bring dialogue and make Palestinians have a say in the laws that could be passed to avoid supression. The time limit is to make sure that a new generation would be in power and the generation that fought in the war in this era would not have a say, also the promise of freedom after a time would be a incentive to keep them quiet and avoid the creation of a new group.
- Stop the bombs
- Stop the colonization process immediatelly.
- Make a public apology for the colonization process in front of the world
- Open Gaza
- Open humanitary roads
- Let the water and food flood.
- Accept to draw new frontiers with the palestinian govrnement and a third party. Ideally on the 48's frontiers.
- Brass for potential attacks but don't retaliate.
- Help the process of reconstruction.
- Sign a pact of peace with Palestine.
- Sign a pact of non agression with palestine
- Open the frontieres.
Its amazing how easy all of this could be. But first.. we need Netanyahou OUT and a leftist gov in command. Which is pretty much impossible.
Too bad
That would be the "bad way":
It won't settle any problem. It won't calm the hate of palestinian down, you will have kick people from their home so you will ghave legitimized colonization. People will never accept that, you will only put oil on fire and create more radicalized people. Which means that you will need to kill more and more and more people until there is no palestianian left.
This is completely backward. You won't manage to create legitimacy while kicking people out off the only territory they have left, you will only play god and move population as you wish while developping a burning hatred into their hearth.. which was already tested in history without much success...
Palestinian needs:
- Humanization (and not the opposite)
- Territories
- Homes
- Water
- Food
- Reparation
- And most of all APOLOGIES.
By killing the hamas you will kill sons and fathers, you will only create hatred.
To end a conflict you must think out of the box. You must accept the hatred and apologize. Trust me. Its magical.
- Stop the colonization process immediatelly.
- Make a public apology for the colonization process in front of the world
- Open Gaza
- Open humanitary roads
- Let the water and food flood.
- Accept to draw new frontiers with the palestinian govrnement and a third party. Ideally on the 48's frontiers.
- Brass for potential attacks but don't retaliate.
- Help the process of reconstruction.
- Sign a pact of peace with Palestine.
- Sign a pact of non agression with palestine
- Open the frontieres.
Its amazing how easy all of this could be. But first.. we need Netanyahou OUT and a leftist gov in command. Which is pretty much impossible.
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Too bad
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That would be the "bad way":
It won't settle any problem. It won't calm the hate of palestinian down, you will have kick people from their home so you will ghave legitimized colonization. People will never accept that, you will only put oil on fire and create more radicalized people. Which means that you will need to kill more and more and more people until there is no palestianian left.
This is completely backward. You won't manage to create legitimacy while kicking people out off the only territory they have left, you will only play god and move population as you wish while developping a burning hatred into their hearth.. which was already tested in history without much success...
Palestinian needs:
- Humanization (and not the opposite)
- Territories
- Homes
- Water
- Food
- Reparation
- And most of all APOLOGIES.
By killing the hamas you will kill sons and fathers, you will only create hatred.
To end a conflict you must think out of the box. You must accept the hatred and apologize. Trust me. Its magical.
I'm not in favor of the idea of the jewish people keeping quietly and let a group that want to exterminate them live.
Worst of all not even retaliating when they kill them. IF you want another holocaust and the Jewish people being killed left and right just say it. At least this has the virtue of being honest.
I would appreciate if you don't add me anymore in your replies. I can't block you since some people that I actually appreciate reading and have some good insights try to reply to you. I promise that I will not engage again unless provoked.
Worst of all not even retaliating when they kill them. IF you want another holocaust and the Jewish people being killed left and right just say it. At least this has the virtue of being honest.
I would appreciate if you don't add me anymore in your replies. I can't block you since some people that I actually appreciate reading and have some good insights try to reply to you. I promise that I will not engage again unless provoked.
""I'm not in favor of the idea of the jewish people keeping quietly and let a group that want to exterminate them live.
Worst of all not even retaliating when they kill them. IF you want another holocaust and the Jewish people being killed left and right just say it. At least this has the virtue of being honest.
I would appreciate if you don't add me anymore in your replies. I can't block you since some people that I actually appreciate reading and have some good insights try to reply to you. I promise that I will not engage again unless provoked""
Ok I won't quote you. But I will reply nonetheless.
Noone is talking about a new holocaust. What I say is that instead of showing the teeth and the fang, the IDF should instead show the back and protect instead of attacking.
This is hard to graps but this is the RIGHT thing to do.
Israel MUST take responsibility for its crimes first. This means putting every ressources on the defense rather than the attack. It means apologyzing for the war crimes and the colonization. It means stopping the oppression and the colonization IMMEDIATLY. Only this way will people will be able to calm down and take down hamas. There is no shortcut here. This must be done with accountability.
There is a thing you must understand. Its NOT up to Israel to put down Hamas, its PALESTINE's JOB.
Yes, this means to brass up for potential attacks at least during the transition process and two state. But it also means that this way, we will afford Palestinian to take their destiny into their own hands. It will permit for a real palestinian nation to emmerge and get rid of those monsters.
Worst of all not even retaliating when they kill them. IF you want another holocaust and the Jewish people being killed left and right just say it. At least this has the virtue of being honest.
I would appreciate if you don't add me anymore in your replies. I can't block you since some people that I actually appreciate reading and have some good insights try to reply to you. I promise that I will not engage again unless provoked""
Ok I won't quote you. But I will reply nonetheless.
Noone is talking about a new holocaust. What I say is that instead of showing the teeth and the fang, the IDF should instead show the back and protect instead of attacking.
This is hard to graps but this is the RIGHT thing to do.
Israel MUST take responsibility for its crimes first. This means putting every ressources on the defense rather than the attack. It means apologyzing for the war crimes and the colonization. It means stopping the oppression and the colonization IMMEDIATLY. Only this way will people will be able to calm down and take down hamas. There is no shortcut here. This must be done with accountability.
There is a thing you must understand. Its NOT up to Israel to put down Hamas, its PALESTINE's JOB.
Yes, this means to brass up for potential attacks at least during the transition process and two state. But it also means that this way, we will afford Palestinian to take their destiny into their own hands. It will permit for a real palestinian nation to emmerge and get rid of those monsters.