General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
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- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
Oda doesn't have a checklist for crewmembers, I'm sorry thats just straight facts. His relationship to One Piece is too deeply emotional/personal for him to view new members in a cold logical way.
All nakama theories that don't take that into account, is missing the forest for the trees so to speak. The reason everyone's nakama theories devolve into hyper-specific requirements is because Oda doesn't have a pattern other than "I want to add another crewmate" and "The next crewmate has to be memorable". We've yet to see a "standard" manner of joining the Straw Hats and it's kind of silly to think we can figure out Oda's secret Nakama equation (that he most certainly doesn't have). By the end of the series we're going to have 50 different "rules" for new nakama that Oda NEVER used in his decision making process.
A new Straw Hat won't be a boring character, they will have some sort of bond to the SHs, and they'll have focus in their arc thats guaranteed. But the overarching narrative, the crews needs, and the characters motivations in general are the real indicators for a crew join at this late of a stage.
Which is why Kizaru will join the crew once he betrays the WG and has no choice but to scamper off with the Straw Hats. In this essay i will....
All nakama theories that don't take that into account, is missing the forest for the trees so to speak. The reason everyone's nakama theories devolve into hyper-specific requirements is because Oda doesn't have a pattern other than "I want to add another crewmate" and "The next crewmate has to be memorable". We've yet to see a "standard" manner of joining the Straw Hats and it's kind of silly to think we can figure out Oda's secret Nakama equation (that he most certainly doesn't have). By the end of the series we're going to have 50 different "rules" for new nakama that Oda NEVER used in his decision making process.
A new Straw Hat won't be a boring character, they will have some sort of bond to the SHs, and they'll have focus in their arc thats guaranteed. But the overarching narrative, the crews needs, and the characters motivations in general are the real indicators for a crew join at this late of a stage.
Which is why Kizaru will join the crew once he betrays the WG and has no choice but to scamper off with the Straw Hats. In this essay i will....
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What’s 🥕shinning moment?
You first reflexe is to quote moment like "help me". Meaning that you didn't read the post. In the post it was clearly said that the shining nakama action was about the post and not simple iconic moments.
@Logiko Usopps shining Nakama action was in chapter 758??? CHAPTER 758
Why not leave it 5000 chapters after he joined? Or was he not really 100% a Nakama u til that moment. Do you not see how stupid your self made rules and pillars are?
Why not leave it 5000 chapters after he joined? Or was he not really 100% a Nakama u til that moment. Do you not see how stupid your self made rules and pillars are?
That is a bias to think that because an author is emotionnaly involved in his story he can't therefore not look at it in a logical way.
To create One Piece, trust me, Oda is OBLIGATED to look at his story in a logical way, or rather, to take a step back. This doesn't mean that he won't write with emotion, just that there is hard work and very logical work put into motion in his storytelling.
This is a simplistic way to look at it. And an ignorance of the real patterns behind the story and behind the construction of the strawhats.
What I says is that there are pattern, not that Oda creates them really intentionnaly.
We ca
We can only predict. That's the point of this thread.
No, it will be the same.
That's already three rules.
You are doing what you are denouncing.
Indeed
and not just "this late in the game" in the story in general.
Lol this was your conclusion ?
This chapter she goes Sulong for the first time. For which post is this supposed to be? How does she become indispensable to the crew in this moment? This is something Sanji could do as well, zoro too and chopper literally says he can do it too.
yeah that is a shinning moment 🤦🏻♂️
You are full of shit and change everything just so it fits your narrative.
yeah that is a shinning moment 🤦🏻♂️
You are full of shit and change everything just so it fits your narrative.
This needs a chapter analysis. But in short.
The notion of sight and the post of look out is at the center of this chapter symbolically and literally at multipple separate occasions.
At this moment Carrot do something that very few strawhat can do. And it doesn't matter if Sanji can do it (he can't, not at that speed) this is a moment that make CARROT shines. THe link to the look out post on this action is all about symbolism.
Carrot is a character that sees all the time (she is in wonder in front of the sea, she is at the look out post, she looks for intruders, she look up for threats over the story) but in chapter 888 there is a switch. Carrot becomes the things we and the character are watching. The look out is reversed and Carrot becames a mythological character.
If you don't sence this symbolism, I don't really know what to say to you beside look at the reactions of the characters.
Usopp is the only one with two shining Nakama moments. But yeah, you don't seem to understand the concept so its really no wonder that you have this reaction.
The notion of sight and the post of look out is at the center of this chapter symbolically and literally at multipple separate occasions.
At this moment Carrot do something that very few strawhat can do. And it doesn't matter if Sanji can do it (he can't, not at that speed) this is a moment that make CARROT shines. THe link to the look out post on this action is all about symbolism.
Carrot is a character that sees all the time (she is in wonder in front of the sea, she is at the look out post, she looks for intruders, she look up for threats over the story) but in chapter 888 there is a switch. Carrot becomes the things we and the character are watching. The look out is reversed and Carrot becames a mythological character.
If you don't sence this symbolism, I don't really know what to say to you beside look at the reactions of the characters.
Usopp is the only one with two shining Nakama moments. But yeah, you don't seem to understand the concept so its really no wonder that you have this reaction.
No, the first thing I did was say that shit was lame.
Then you went and said I didn't read your blog.
To which I replied using several moments from your blog in question.
Then you were all fucking smug as if I proved you right somehow.
My mention of moments like Save Me didn't come until after that.
Or are we using new definitions of "first" now?
Then you went and said I didn't read your blog.
To which I replied using several moments from your blog in question.
Then you were all fucking smug as if I proved you right somehow.
My mention of moments like Save Me didn't come until after that.
Or are we using new definitions of "first" now?
My conclusion is that Oda made up G5 believing it would piss off his fans, and did it anyways because he believed it would make the story more fun. Absolutely destroying established canon about DFs and giving Luffy the only awakened Zoan stamina drain. It why Pell, Pound and Kinemon are also alive too, he set aside logic because he wanted the characters alive more than it made sense for them to be.
I can assure you that Oda regularly makes gut decisions based on emotion first, and in story logic second.
And the "rules" I put aren't "rules" they're called obvious inevitabilities. I am not clever for noticing that Oda wants the SH crew to be filled with interesting characters, that care about the crew, that the audience knows, and have some sort of fight gimmick. These will just naturally happen if they try to join Luffys pirate crew because its story telling 101 and Oda doesn't like making relevant characters boring.
I distinctly remember Oda replacing one of the originally planned crew (the botanist) with Robin just because he liked her so damn much. Oda's logical yes definitely, but that has to do with the decades of world building that he likes to keep somewhat consistent. But in terms of individual characters, Oda is a human who tells human stories and those are not built with cold hard logic.
And the Kizaru thing is called a joke, although I do wish he'd join (if only to disprove every Nakama theorists "system").
I can assure you that Oda regularly makes gut decisions based on emotion first, and in story logic second.
And the "rules" I put aren't "rules" they're called obvious inevitabilities. I am not clever for noticing that Oda wants the SH crew to be filled with interesting characters, that care about the crew, that the audience knows, and have some sort of fight gimmick. These will just naturally happen if they try to join Luffys pirate crew because its story telling 101 and Oda doesn't like making relevant characters boring.
I distinctly remember Oda replacing one of the originally planned crew (the botanist) with Robin just because he liked her so damn much. Oda's logical yes definitely, but that has to do with the decades of world building that he likes to keep somewhat consistent. But in terms of individual characters, Oda is a human who tells human stories and those are not built with cold hard logic.
And the Kizaru thing is called a joke, although I do wish he'd join (if only to disprove every Nakama theorists "system").
ngl I don't get the doomer posting about Yamato. So many are just deadset that she wont join like we didn't have Jinbei do similar with Big Mom. She wanted to join, Luffy cleared it, and they discussed that FOR NOW, Wano needed her there to help protect it.
One Momo gets haki there's really no reason for her to be there anymore and the invite still stands. Why wouldn't she go with them once Wano's borders open?
One Momo gets haki there's really no reason for her to be there anymore and the invite still stands. Why wouldn't she go with them once Wano's borders open?
Let's see how far Stussy can go...
Stussy don't pass the 5th golden rule but we will assume that it was just not written yet just for you guys not to implode. So lets say that vegapunk will be her "guide of the will".
Now let's see how she does in the 10 pillars.
- Fighting skill, yes. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Actually check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. Only halfway of the 4 points. So .. 2 Points
- Strong character arc. None. 0 Point
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Nothing. 0 Point
- The rescue. Nothing as of right now. 0 Point
- The Nakama need. Right now she is fighting for Vegapunk and not for Luffy. 0 point
- Post. She COULD be a scientist. But it was not shadow or foreshadowed. So only half the point +0.5. 4 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Nothing. 0 points.
Stussy as of right now wins 12 points.
Let's see how far Bonney can go.
Bonney actually checks easily the 5 golden rules.
As for the 10 Pillars:
- Fighting skill, Check. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, Check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. 3 out of 4 points. So .. 3 Points
- Strong character arc. Yup. 5 Points
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Yup. 6 Points
- The rescue. There was no real rescue but there is hint of it so half the points + 0.5. 4 Points
- The Nakama need. Right now she is fighting for her dad and not for Luffy. 0 point
- Post. Nothing was shadowed. 0 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Nothing. 0 points.
Bonney wins 24 Points
Do you want to check how far can go Carrot ? lol , let's see.
First, she easily check the 5 golden rules.
Then for the 10 Pillars:
- Fighting skill, Check. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, Check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. Check. 4 Points
- Strong character arc. Just a small arc, only half the points +0.5. 3 Points
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Check. 6 Points
- The rescue. Nothing. 0 Points
- The Nakama need. Nothing. 0 point
- Post. Check. 9 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Omegachecked. 10 points.
Carrot wins 38 Points.
Let's sum it up:
Stussy: 12 Points
Bonney : 24 Points
Carrot : 38 Points
The moment a post will be foreshadowed, things will change. But right now, Carrot is still ahead.
Oh! This is because of an error of translation of mine.
The actual term created by Truby is "False ennemy". Sorry, I read the anatomy book in french.
https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/character-misdirection/
Franky was literally a false adversary. Just as Lucci was a false ally. I'm really surprised that you don't know those concepts. This is very basic stuff.
Stussy don't pass the 5th golden rule but we will assume that it was just not written yet just for you guys not to implode. So lets say that vegapunk will be her "guide of the will".
Now let's see how she does in the 10 pillars.
- Fighting skill, yes. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Actually check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. Only halfway of the 4 points. So .. 2 Points
- Strong character arc. None. 0 Point
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Nothing. 0 Point
- The rescue. Nothing as of right now. 0 Point
- The Nakama need. Right now she is fighting for Vegapunk and not for Luffy. 0 point
- Post. She COULD be a scientist. But it was not shadow or foreshadowed. So only half the point +0.5. 4 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Nothing. 0 points.
Stussy as of right now wins 12 points.
Let's see how far Bonney can go.
Bonney actually checks easily the 5 golden rules.
As for the 10 Pillars:
- Fighting skill, Check. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, Check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. 3 out of 4 points. So .. 3 Points
- Strong character arc. Yup. 5 Points
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Yup. 6 Points
- The rescue. There was no real rescue but there is hint of it so half the points + 0.5. 4 Points
- The Nakama need. Right now she is fighting for her dad and not for Luffy. 0 point
- Post. Nothing was shadowed. 0 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Nothing. 0 points.
Bonney wins 24 Points
Do you want to check how far can go Carrot ? lol , let's see.
First, she easily check the 5 golden rules.
Then for the 10 Pillars:
- Fighting skill, Check. 1 point.
- Antagonistic introduction, Check. 2 Points
- Multilayered characterization. Check. 3 points
- Symbolic reach. Check. 4 Points
- Strong character arc. Just a small arc, only half the points +0.5. 3 Points
- Hint of the 2 driving forces. Check. 6 Points
- The rescue. Nothing. 0 Points
- The Nakama need. Nothing. 0 point
- Post. Check. 9 points.
- Shining Nakama action. Omegachecked. 10 points.
Carrot wins 38 Points.
Let's sum it up:
Stussy: 12 Points
Bonney : 24 Points
Carrot : 38 Points
The moment a post will be foreshadowed, things will change. But right now, Carrot is still ahead.
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Oh! This is because of an error of translation of mine.
The actual term created by Truby is "False ennemy". Sorry, I read the anatomy book in french.
https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/character-misdirection/
Franky was literally a false adversary. Just as Lucci was a false ally. I'm really surprised that you don't know those concepts. This is very basic stuff.
Indeed you are right, it wasn't your FIRST reflexe, just a random one. And yeah I acted "smug" because I send you something you didn't understand and acted smug about it.:)
No, he just did this because it was fun to draw. Some of the fans are in a unilateral war with Oda its ridiculous. He just want funny and entertaining fights.
No, its just HIS logic. He explained it already.
Of course he does, without that there wouldn't be any story. Creation comes from the guts but a good creations takes works and reworks. Meaning that you need to be aware of your own perception and logic when you write a story. If you don't do this, you will end up creating a story that might contradict your own values.
Just like the 10 pillars.
And pillars happens because they are needed for the story to be more entertaining and more fun.
Which doesn't change the 10 Pillars or the logic behind them. A botanist would get the same construction as others strawhats.
Characterization comes sometimes from pure logic and defined rules.
Funny but it doesn't disprove anything.
Yup. Usopp is also the only one with Sanji with multiple character arcs.
No you don't lol. You are far from understanding it it seems. but it might be my fault for not explaining it well enough.
Nothing is bent here.
That's an actual good point. I'm considering fusing the Shining Nakama action with the post all together. But its so important that I feel it would be a deservice.
What would be Yamato's post ?
lol
Indeed.
A false ennemy is not a ennemy that is with the character from the beginning. Its just an ennemy that is meant to be an ally at the end of the story. Simple as that.
Still is.
No, he just did this because it was fun to draw. Some of the fans are in a unilateral war with Oda its ridiculous. He just want funny and entertaining fights.
No, its just HIS logic. He explained it already.
Of course he does, without that there wouldn't be any story. Creation comes from the guts but a good creations takes works and reworks. Meaning that you need to be aware of your own perception and logic when you write a story. If you don't do this, you will end up creating a story that might contradict your own values.
Just like the 10 pillars.
And pillars happens because they are needed for the story to be more entertaining and more fun.
Which doesn't change the 10 Pillars or the logic behind them. A botanist would get the same construction as others strawhats.
Characterization comes sometimes from pure logic and defined rules.
Funny but it doesn't disprove anything.
Yup. Usopp is also the only one with Sanji with multiple character arcs.
No you don't lol. You are far from understanding it it seems. but it might be my fault for not explaining it well enough.
Nothing is bent here.
That's an actual good point. I'm considering fusing the Shining Nakama action with the post all together. But its so important that I feel it would be a deservice.
What would be Yamato's post ?
lol
Indeed.
A false ennemy is not a ennemy that is with the character from the beginning. Its just an ennemy that is meant to be an ally at the end of the story. Simple as that.
Still is.
This is straight up false. Read your precious book again. A false enemy is an ally who appears to be an enemy, or who the protagonist believes to be an enemy. If they are not actually an ally, it's not a false enemy, just an enemy who later switches sides.
And even if you were right, that rule still would have disqualified Franky during the beginning of Water 7 if applied the same way you're applying it to Lucci here. Any enemy can potentially change sides, so if that counts as a "false enemy" then it can't be used to disqualify any candidate, and therefore doesn't work as a rule.
That said, @Warback he's actually right about Lucci being a false ally, since he pretended to be an ally while really being an enemy the whole time. Not sure Logico understands why he's right about this though, given the whole Franky thing.
And even if you were right, that rule still would have disqualified Franky during the beginning of Water 7 if applied the same way you're applying it to Lucci here. Any enemy can potentially change sides, so if that counts as a "false enemy" then it can't be used to disqualify any candidate, and therefore doesn't work as a rule.
That said, @Warback he's actually right about Lucci being a false ally, since he pretended to be an ally while really being an enemy the whole time. Not sure Logico understands why he's right about this though, given the whole Franky thing.