How would you rank these Zhao generals based on overall ability?

#1
Keisha
Gyou'un
Chougaryuu
Shunsuiju
Bananji
Rinko
Kyou En

Personally Gyou'un impressed me far more than Chougaryuu but it feels like these two shouldnt be far apart from each other and Bananji felt like he was just as big of a threat as the duo during the Shukai plains battle so I'm unsure about how he matches up to them exactly

Keisha felt like the biggest deal out of all these guys individually as we saw him lead an entire war all by himself against Kanki and he even had good feats vs Duke Hyou.

Shunsuiju has perhaps the best intelligence feats of the bunch

And Rinko/Kyou En are characters I believe suffer from being introduced too early in these discussions as I truly believe Rinko can at least keep up with anyone here skillwise. As for Kyou En his chara design screams "elite" to me ... cant imagine him being a bum

How would you rank these guys overall?
 
#2
This is hard. By portrayal Keisha and Gyou'Un are at the top. Keisha was the closed to take the final seat of the Great heavens and Gyou'Un was seen as a representation of Zhao's martial might. I think Keisha is the slightly better instinctual General, he was handling the Duke quite well and Shin who was barely starting to tap into his instinctual potential managed to keep up albeit Gyou'Un was rusty. Gyou'Un is stronger obviously.

I'm a huge Bananji and Kyou'En fan, especially Kyou'En is an underrated beast. Bananji really is only a fighter, he has a good understanding of tactics but he's still a worse general than most others here.

Rinko's rindou formation broke through Ouki's defence and he managed to scratch him and escape, that alone is a godly feat.

I want to see more from SSJ, he hasn't impressed me much so far and Chougaryuu was just a disappointment.

- Prime Gyou'Un
- Keisha
- Rinko
- Kyou'En
- Bananji
- SSJ
- Shitgaryuu

They all are inferior to him though

I think threads like these from each state would be interesting just so that the Kingdom community as a whole comes to a similar page when it comes to scaling with tiers. In that regard we're a bit all over the place. Take out the Great Generals and only rank their main subordinates for example.

What do you think ?
@Elder Lee Hung @SakazOuki @God Buggy @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @Bullet etc
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#3
The fuck? Chou Garyuu was awesome, lol

Anyway, so the baseline I use to scale these guys is Kyou En. Kyou En was the head of military for a smaller state that was conquered by Renpa, directly comparing Kyou En to the Juukou gang is valid because they all had similar rolls.

It’s a testament to how great people like Renpa are that they have actual former GGs/heads of small state militaries serving them lol.

So anyway, I would say:

Keisha
Gyou'un
Chougaryuu
Shunsuiju
Bananji
Rinko
Kyou En
1. Keisha-it is tough to really scale Keisha but generally I think he belongs above all of these other guys. He was outright said to be close to achieving a Great Heaven seat, and as much hype as these other guys have, I think that portrayal in and of itself is better. As an overall commander I would favor him above these guys even if they each have individual attributes above that of Keisha. Do not forget that Keisha severely outplayed Duke Hyou in the Coalition war to the point that Riboku thought Duke Hyou was check-mated, I question if any of these guys could’ve done Duke Hyou like that.

2. Gyou’Un-and what sort of Gyou’Un High Priest would I be if I didn’t put him up next lol. But nah seriously I do think he’s earned this spot, he shouldered the primary martial burden of a 3GH tier army and was Rinshoujou’s right hand man. In war I think he was an outright 3GH tier offensive power but lacked the versatility of a true Great Heaven. He was outright compared to Rinko and Kaishibou in terms of ability so I think Gyou’Un being slightly above Kyou En is the right spot for him.

And the rest of these guys are really really really tough for me to rank because they’re pretty much all equal, even Gyou’Un is pretty much equal to these guys but fuck it here goes:

3. Shunsuiju-I think Shunsuiju is the true sleeper of this tier. This guy literally has feats against multiple Qin 6 members and looked damn good while doing so. He was the one who first sniffed Shouheikun’s deception when no one else in Zhao did. He was able to manipulate Yotanwa’s battlefield to such a severe extent that she was outright pushed to “extreme diff” at Roumou. He made Ousen take 3x the predicted casualties at Atsuyo when Ousen is a notoriously strong siege general. Yes Riboku was involved in Shunsuiju’s feats against Yotanwa and Ousen but still. The fact that Rinko broke through Ouki’s iron defense and landed a single blow on Ouki was hyped up as a massive feat, and this doesn’t even compare to what Shunsuiju did to Ousen and Yotanwa. So yeah I really think Shunsuiju is extremely dangerous.

4. Bananji-and Bananji haters thought I would rank him last lol. Nah, Bananji is very impressive. He survived against the Xiongnu for decades while the vast majority of Zhao generals die against the Xiongnu, he had Ousen wide eyed and in shock when Ousen was trying to stop him but couldn’t, and Riboku outright did not want to risk losing Bananji against Kanki. All this and we still haven’t seen Bananji’s true ability yet. He was put in the same strength tier as Kaishibou and Renpa and from the start that was all we really needed to know, but Bananji may be one of those weighted generals when he actually goes hard.

5. Rinko-Hara distinguished Rinko from the rest of the 4HK when he said that Rinko was the one Renpa always had dive heardfirst into the most ferocious battles and yet Rinko overcame them every single time. He was taught tactics by Genpou just like Renpa himself, and I think these factors by themselves are enough to put Rinko as the foremost Heavenly King.

6. Kyou En-and my favorite Heavenly King goes this far down the list unfortunately. Oh well. On top of being a former head of state, he also fought 4 of the Qin 6 and Renpa several times, and Renpa even said he had been burned by Kyou En before. And of course being one of the Ten Bows is a pretty unique claim for a general.

7. Chougaryuu-it is almost criminal to put Garyuu this low. Like I said I think there really aren’t strength gaps here, I think Garyuu pushes Gyou’Un to extreme diff or can even win depending on circumstance. He was Rinshoujou’s left hand man, could use 3GH level tactics, and was directly compared to the Heavenly Kings. So yeah his hype was extreme and I think he showed great feats , but probably just a bit less so than everyone else here.
 
#5
I may come back to add more reasons why, but for now my perception of them is thus:
  1. Kyo En (Ten Bows + crossed swords with Ren Pa multiple times = most hype for me, for reference headcanon STR 95 LDR 92 INT 93)
  2. Gyou'un
  3. Kei Sha
  4. Ba Nan Ji
  5. Kai Shi Bo
  6. Rin Ko
  7. Chou Ga Ryuu
  8. Shun Sui Ju
 
#6
1. Keisha: in terms of sheer ability he's the strongest out of these people. Riboku previously considered him the most terrifying instinctual general, he also beat him a fair few times in simulation. In battle, he was able to put Duke Hyou in a bad spot early on. Keisha was considered to be the closest to the final seat of Great Heaven. One thing I'll say though, one big flaw of his was impatience, as we saw against Kanki. Other individuals, even if weaker than Keisha in terms of raw talent, would react better in certain situations imo.

2. Kyouen: Hara massively hyped this man. He was originally the supreme commander of his own state's military and fought Renpa various times, with Renpa saying that Kyouen was "burning his hands". He also faced off against 4 of the Qin Six and was so hyped that him personally clashing against Great General Kyou always produced a big amount of casulties on both sides. Also, a member of the Ten Bows. Keisha might be a better raw talent but the combination of ability + experience this guy has is truly outstanding. I have him as the second strongest amongst the Heavenly Kings/Ten Heroes after Genpou.

3. SSJ: I think that the sequence of nasty feats that this guy has accumulated against Qin is truly slept on and he has always been up against very tough opponents. He has, time and time again, shown to be a brilliant and devious strategist. And he obviously isn't done yet, we're gonna see more starting from the current battle. SSJ is a beast of a commander.

4. Gyou’Un: an instinctual animal who also learned strategy from RSJ himself. He was completely bodying the HSU when led by Karyo Ten, such that Shin had to step in. He was also a mighty warrior carriyng weight and could utilize deadly tactics like the Raigoku, used in combination with his Ten Spears, which was designed to stay the Qin Six and that slayed various Generals and Great Generals in the past.

The others, idk maybe I'll come back to rank them later lol.
 
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#8
@God Buggy

Facts. I don’t get how Kyou En isn’t in the top 2 of these lists, worst of all below Rinko lol.
Rinko was a very experienced commander (all Heavenly Kings are), all around solid, with one extreme in his Rindou tactic, enabling him and his soldiers to break through the defensive formation of a strong tactician like Ouki. He could also perfom special tasks, like his assassination missions.

However on the whole, Kyouen's portrayal is insane. Like I wrote the only one I put even above is Genpou, due to the crazy portrayal of him being capable of serving as the Head of Zhao's military.
 
#9
This one is tough
-Keisha and Kyou En are in a tier of their own I’d say, Keisha slightly more favorable
-Next are Gyou’Un, Chougaryuu and Rinko
-Lastly SSJ and Bananji, the first lacking in brawn while the latter in brain, and within their specialties they’re nothing extraordinary.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#10
Hara massively hyped this man. He was originally the supreme commander of his own state's military and fought Renpa various times, with Renpa saying that Kyouen was "burning his hands".
@God Buggy

Facts. I don’t get how Kyou En isn’t in the top 2 of these lists, worst of all below Rinko lol.
Rinko was a very experienced commander (all Heavenly Kings are), all around solid, with one extreme in his Rindou tactic, enabling him and his soldiers to break through the defensive formation of a strong tactician like Ouki. He could also perfom special tasks, like his assassination missions.

However on the whole, Kyouen's portrayal is insane. Like I wrote the only one I put even above is Genpou, due to the crazy portrayal of him being capable of serving as the Head of Zhao's military.
This one is tough
-Keisha and Kyou En are in a tier of their own I’d say, Keisha slightly more favorable
-Next are Gyou’Un, Chougaryuu and Rinko
-Lastly SSJ and Bananji, the first lacking in brawn while the latter in brain, and within their specialties they’re nothing extraordinary.
You love to see Kyou En praise lol.

Problem is there is little reason to put him above his fellow Heavenly Kings.

Kaishibou was the leader of the Heavenly Kings. Which gives him unique hype in comparison to the rest.

Rinko was the Heavenly King Renpa threw into the most dangerous battlefields, not Kyou En.

Kyou En was the head of a small state military, Genpou could’ve been the head of freaking Zhao.

Kyou En is my favorite HK but there is nothing distinguishing him from the rest.
 
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