General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Sir Yasheen]

I think I would prefer it if the Seraphim were treated more like independent characters rather than simply extensions of the originals. I could see S-Bear breaking free of his programming and attacking Saturn because he retains the love Kuma had for his daughter, but I would definitely prefer it if the Seraphim are treated more like some silly kids who just so happen to have the warlords' personalities rather than as some kind of "reincarnation" of the originals

Also Bonney already took on Kuma's memories. And to me Kuma's memories being inherited by his beloved daughter hits a lot harder than if they went to S-Bear who was sorta just hanging out in the background for most of this arc

The problem with this is the S-Snake scene. Somehow Hancocks love of Luffy got passed down despite Snake never being enslaved by the CDs which Luffy punching Charlos was a big reason boa fell for him.

The seraphim are extensions of the original, their muscle memory, personalities, and aparently parts of their personalities all got inherited. And with one of kumas most notable trait being his love for his daughter, I can’t imagine this didn’t get passed down.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2023

I'm not voting for bonney , but Kuma is going to die, he'll come to Egghead to save her and then gets killed by Saturn

Even if Kuma dies, Bear will take up Kumas role as Bonneys father Imo.

 

[Sigran101]

Honestly the biggest problem here is that it involves Bonney and kuma separating which genuinely makes no sense to me.

The entire point of this flashback has been about how strong the bond between these two are and the promise that when these two reunite they’ll go off together and travel the world together.

Bonney and Kuma deciding to separate again after losing so many years together goes against a major narrative of this flashback imo

This. I think there's 3 options here. Kuma dies and Bonney joins, Kuma lives and both join together, or neither join. I don't see any scenario where they seperate again.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

This. I think there's 3 options here. Kuma dies and Bonney joins, Kuma lives and both join together, or neither join. I don't see any scenario where they seperate again.

Yeah. Those two separating if they have the choice of being together just doesn’t work. It’s like Kyros and Rebecca

 

[meho_meho]

This. I think there's 3 options here. Kuma dies and Bonney joins, Kuma lives and both join together, or neither join. I don't see any scenario where they seperate again.

Kuma dies, Bonney travels with the crew until she gets her crew back

 

[Logiko]

Usopp did have a dream, he dreamed to be a brave warrior of the sea.

hmm.. I thought it only appeared at the barrel moment. Only there did Usopp mentalized his dream.

It was reiterated multiple times in syrup village

Reread east blue again

Its been a long time since i've read east blue, can you guys direct me to the moment or moments when Usopp says that his dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea before he embarks with Luffy ?

Bro literally got it backwards too as Usopp didn’t get a post until on the way to Baratie he joined the straw hats with no post.

You missread what I wrote. You are the one who got it backward. What I said are Post AND skill. Meaning that the post can be officialized later, but the skill MUST be there. In all the strawhats cases, the skill was purposefully setup beforehand by Oda. And it was the case with Carrot too.

 

[Rambles]

Chapter 595

Thanks.

 

[Sigran101]

hmm.. I thought it only appeared at the barrel moment. Only there did Usopp mentalized his dream.



Its been a long time since i've read east blue, can you guys direct me to the moment or moments when Usopp says that his dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea before he embarks with Luffy ?



You missread what I wrote. You are the one who got it backward. What I said are Post AND skill. Meaning that the post can be officialized later, but the skill MUST be there. In all the strawhats cases, the skill was purposefully setup beforehand by Oda. And it was the case with Carrot too.

He didn't misread anything, you wrote poorly. Nothing in the words "post and skill are essential" implies that skill must be present first but post can be later.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

This only appears at the barrel moment. Only there did Usopp mentalized his dream.



Its been a long time since i've read east blue, can you guys direct me to the moment or moments when Usopp say that his dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea before he embarks with Luffy ?



You missread what I wrote. You are the one who got it backward. What I said are Post AND skill. Meaning that the post can be officialized later, but the skill MUST be there. In all the strawhats cases, the skill was purposefully setup beforehand by Oda. And it was the case with Carrot too.

Usopps words of why he went out to see to the Usopp pirates are “because the pirate flag is calling me“ which is the exact same quote his father said in Luffys flashback

Usopp also stated his father is a brave warrior of the sea and how much pride he takes in being his son.

Usopps last words to Kaya are that next time he returns he’ll be a real brave warrior of the sea and will tell her truths more fantastic than his lies

Finally Usopps moms last words to him were about how she wishes she could see Usopp become as brave as him.

So despite Usopp never saying “My dream is to be a brave warrior of the sea“ Oda told us his dream many times during his small arc and the reasoning of it.

That is why I always said carrots never joining she never had a dream.

 

[Logiko]

He didn't misread anything, you wrote poorly. Nothing in the words "post and skill are essential" implies that skill must be present first but post can be later.

I didn't need to. I've explained hundreds of times on this thread that while the posts and the dream can be officialized later in the story (after the embarkment) the skills and at least the thematic related to those skills must be setup at the VERY BEGINNING.

The reasons are narratively simple: Skills are a foundamental part of a character in a shonen. Giving a character like a strawhat a special skill for a post later in the story is a very narratively dangerous thing to do and will lead to bad writing 99% of the time. The only way you can manage to postpoined the relevation of the skills of the character is if you are making them false antagonist first.

But in anyway, even if you postpoined the revelation of those skill, you need to rattach them to a pre-existing thematic for the character. This is why Robin is early introduced with a special curiosity for one of the biggest mystery at the time, and why Franky is build like the representation of what Luffy was imagining a shipwright to be and at the place where this representation makes sence.

because the pirate flag is calling me

But this is not a dream stated.

Usopp also stated his father is a brave warrior of the sea and how much pride he takes in being his son.

Same thing, this is not the dream of Usopp, just the state of his father.

Usopps last words to Kaya are that next time he returns he’ll be a real brave warrior of the sea and will tell her truths more fantastic than his lies

Actually what Usopp says to Kaya is "when I come back, I'll have even taller tales to tell you, only they'll be true!!" no that he'll be a real brave warrior of the sea

Finally Usopps moms last words to him were about how she wishes she could see Usopp become as brave as him.

Again, not a statement of his dream.

As I feared, I was right. Usopp did not stated his dream until the barrel scene. Which is logical as this is the moment when he is pushed to make a real statement about himself.

Oda told us his dream many times during his small arc and the reasoning of it.

And oda literally made Carrot said that she wanted to go on an adventure, and that through Pedro, Carrot would learn one day the importance of helping Luffy. So yeah.. that's irrelevant.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I didn't need to. I've explained hundreds of times on this thread that while the posts and the dream can be officialized later in the story (after the embarkment) the skills and at least the thematic related to those skills must be setup at the VERY BEGINNING.

The reasons are narratively simple: Skills are a foundamental part of a character in a shonen. Giving a character like a strawhat a special skill for a post later in the story is a very narratively dangerous thing to do and will lead to bad writing 99% of the time. The only way you can manage to postpoined the relevation of the skills of the character is if you are making them false antagonist first.

But in anyway, even if you postpoined the revelation of those skill, you need to rattach them to a pre-existing thematic for the character. This is why Robin is early introduced with a special curiosity for one of the biggest mystery at the time, and why Franky is build like the representation of what Luffy was imagining a shipwright to be and at the place where this representation makes sence.



But this is not a dream stated.



Same thing, this is not the dream of Usopp, just the state of his father.



Actually what Usopp says to Kaya is "when I come back, I'll have even taller tales to tell you, only they'll be true!!" no that he'll be a real brave warrior of the sea


Again, not a statement of his dream.

As I feared, I was right. Usopp did not stated his dream until the barrel scene. Which is logical as this is the moment when he is pushed to make a real statement about himself.



And oda literally made Carrot said that she wanted to go on an adventure, and that through Pedro, Carrot would learn one day the importance of helping Luffy. So yeah.. that's irrelevant.

Carrot saying I wanna go on an adventure is not a dream and you know that. Carrots role was a thematic beginning as Wci was based off of nursery books so they had a white rabbit take them to wonderland.

There was clearly no intention of carrot ever being a straw hat.

 

[Rambles]

It begins again.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Carrot saying I wanna go on an adventure is not a dream and you know that. Carrots role was a thematic beginning as Wci was based off of nursery books so they had a white rabbit take them to wonderland.

There was clearly no intention of carrot ever being a straw hat.

 

[Logiko]

Carrot saying I wanna go on an adventure is not a dream and you know that. Carrots role was a thematic beginning as Wci was based off of nursery books so they had a white rabbit take them to wonderland.

There was clearly no intention of carrot ever being a straw hat.

Never said it was but it can be - like Usopp - interpreted as Oda putting a dream in Carrot.

Concerning her post, Carrot thematics and skills were introduced on chapter 804 on the first apparition of Carrot.

There was clearly no intention of carrot ever being a straw hat.

That's highly debatable.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Never said it was but it can be - like Usopp - interpreted as Oda putting a dream in Carrot.

Concerning her post, Carrot thematics and skills were introduced on chapter 804 on the first apparition of Carrot.



That's highly debatable.

It’s really not. If there was intention for her to be a straw hat she would’ve been written differently with a dream she can achieve like everyone else.

 

[Logiko]

It’s really not. If there was intention for her to be a straw hat she would’ve been written differently with a dream she can achieve like everyone else.

Mate... There are dozen of ways to make the Carrot you know become a strawhat while giving her a dream like all the strawhat and that while doing good storytelling. Out of all the mistakes Oda made in One Piece (and he didn't do a lot) making Carrot stay on Zou is the easiest one to get rid of while still writing an amazing story.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Mate... There are dozen of ways to make the Carrot you know become a strawhat while giving her a dream like all the strawhat and that while doing good storytelling. Out of all the mistakes Oda made in One Piece (and he didn't do a lot) making Carrot stay on Zou is the easiest one to get rid of while still writing an amazing story.

Carrot staying on Zou is one of the best things he did as he gave her an ending where it highlights her importance as one of the most impactful minks to the story while highlighting that she simply wasn’t ready to go off to sea.

 

[Logiko]

Carrot staying on Zou is one of the best things he did as he gave her an ending where it highlights her importance as one of the most impactful minks to the story while highlighting that she simply wasn’t ready to go off to sea.

Sadly Carrot stayin on zou enters in conflict with the characterization of Carrot. Which makes this descision either a setup or a mistake:

CF this thread:

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ave-made-an-error-in-wano.46250/#post-4627087

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Sadly Carrot stayin on zou enters in conflict with the characterization of Carrot. Which makes this descision either a setup or a mistake:

CF this thread:

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ave-made-an-error-in-wano.46250/#post-4627087

Carrots character was someone who immaturely thought she was ready to leave the nest like 7 year old luffy. Her choosing to stay back and wait until she’s truly ready shows a maturity she greatly needed.

You just don’t like that her character grew because you wanted her on the ship. But once she didn’t defeat Perospero it was clear she wasn’t ready.

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

you just stated four point that don't have anything related to joining SHs.
why should anyone with a tragic past, & a dream involving sailing around the world, separated from his family & wants to revenge for someone helped the crew, join the crew? !!!

What the hell are you talking about? That's the criteria for literally every crewmate. Oda is a very systematic writer, which is why analzying his writing is enjoyable.

Zoro
Tragic flashback with character dying = Kuina
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Zoro has never even mentioned his parents
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Saving Luffy from Morgan's attack
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman

Nami
Tragic flashback with character dying = Bellemere
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Became a thief to save her village from pirates
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = "Luffy... help me!"
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Literally wants to chart the entire world

Usopp
Tragic flashback with character dying = Bachina
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Yasopp is a deadbeat father
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Working with Zoro to defeat Jango
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Becoming a Brave Warrior of the Sea (what his mother wanted to see)

Sanji
Tragic flashback with character dying = Sora
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Fled Germa to be free while being disowned
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Feeding Gin, which made Luffy choose Sanji for a cook
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Finding the All Blue

Chopper
Tragic flashback with character dying = Hiriluck
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Kicked out of reindeer herd for being different
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Chooper fighting Wapol/Luffy holding up Hiriluk's flag
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Finding a medical pancea that can cure all disease

Robin
Tragic flashback with character dying = Olvia
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Ohara incident
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Saving Luffy after his first fight with Crocodile
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Solving the ancient history via the Poneglyphs

Franky
Tragic flashback with character dying = Tom
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Sea Train incident leaving him as Franky
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Franky helping Robin escape by attacking Spandam
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Having the Sunny literally sail around the world

Brook
Tragic flashback with character dying = His whole crew besides Yorkie
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Laboon
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = When Franky finds out about Laboon
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Returning to Laboon (Brook wants to complete his journey)

Jinbei
Tragic flashback with character dying = Fisher Tiger
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = We have no mention of Jinbei's parents despite visiting Fish-Man Island/Arlong and Jinbei falling out despite being former Nakama
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Saving Luffy at Marineford
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Freeing FIshman Island



Potential Nakama

Yamato
Tragic flashback with character dying = Oden
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Kaido is a giant dick
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Fights of Kaido to keep him from killing the Alliance
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Sailing the world like Oden

Vivi
Tragic flashback with character dying = Cobra (IT WAS TECHNICALLY IN A FLASHBACK DON'T @ ME)
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Had to flee Mary Geoise and can't return to Alabasta without getting kidnapped
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Revealing she's trying to take down the Shichibukai Crocodile
Dream that involves sailing around the world = To sail with the Straw Hat Pirates (she always wanted to but needed to rebuild her kingdom)

Tama
Tragic flashback with character dying = Ace
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = Parents killed in Udon mine
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Fed Luffy while starving
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Wanted to go out to see with Ace, got invite from Luffy

Carrot
Tragic flashback (okay, this one is a tragic moment, not a flashback) with character dying = Pedro (unless Zepo was Carrot's dad but that's a whole other wormhole)
Separated from family due to circumstances/tragedy = No knowledge of parents
Significant moment establishing a connection to the crew = Sulong Carrot
Dream that involves sailing around the world = Fulfill Pedro's Will of bringing about the Dawn


At least fucking try to prove me wrong next time, oi.

This thread would be so much less tiring if people read the posts they commented on and thought about them before replying.

 

[Peenix]

Kuma is a worshipper of the Sun God Nika, who is known for liberation and bending/stretching reality.

The focus of his childhood was his father raising Kuma to believe that someday Nika would liberate him. I don't think that means killing him, I think it means Luffy will save Kuma's life.

If Kuma's already dead, then why in the hell is his body breaking programming? If Kuma had no sense of self left, he would have listened to the Celestial Dragons when he attacked Mary Geoise.

Clearly there's still some Kuma left in there.

I think if Kuma sees Luffy in Gear 5 before dying and getting to say goodbye to Bonney before dying, that would be a really great way to tie his story together.

My main issue though is if they manage to have Kuma return to his original self for good, then I think that it sorta cheapens the emotions that this backstory made us feel. Like, how much less impactful would Rosinante's death be if he turned out to be alive again at the end of Dressrosa? I think Oda did a really good job at making Kuma's/Bonney's backstory a strong emotional gut-punch, but I also feel like that gut punch would sorta be undermined on rereads if they manage to bring Kuma back