Versus Battle Is Pain vs Itachi a debate?

[Sir Yasheen]

It was one of the bigger Naruto debates. And when you factor in the bullshit like Izanagi and the Amaterasu and Susanoo it definitely isn’t a super one sided fight.

 

[soheilhazrat]

It was one of the bigger Naruto debates. And when you factor in the bullshit like Izanagi and the Amaterasu and Susanoo it definitely isn’t a super one sided fight.

How effective is izanagi really? In this fight

It doesnt reset the amount of chakra lost or being blinded from over use of MS, which in case of this fight itachi will surely he pushed to use be blinded or almost blind
If he uses izanagi, he might get away but if continues to fight he'll be left with two blind eyes and no chakra. Basically

 

[SkySanji]

Genjutsu literally negs Pain and there isn't a single thing saying otherwise.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Genjutsu literally negs Pain and there isn't a single thing saying otherwise.

Genjutsu works by disturbing chakra flow. He can only use it on one pain at a time.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

A strong enough Sharingan can oppose Tsukuyomi, and forget a Rinnegan—which is two levels ahead of a strong Sharingan. If it weren't for plot BS, Nagato would be unbeatable for anyone below Hashirama and EMS Madara.

 

[SkySanji]

Genjutsu works by disturbing chakra flow. He can only use it on one pain at a time.

All the Pains are connected by chakra, so technically he could affect them all at once via that, but taking them out one at a time is still easy for someone like Itachi.

 

[MonsterKaido]

All the Pains are connected by chakra, so technically he could affect them all at once via that, but taking them out one at a time is still easy for someone like Itachi.

One use of tsukiyomi will slow Itachi down. Don't think he can spam it.

 

[SkySanji]

One use of tsukiyomi will slow Itachi down. Don't think he can spam it.

Tsukuyomi is overkill tbh, even regular Genjutsu suffices.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

All the Pains are connected by chakra, so technically he could affect them all at once via that, but taking them out one at a time is still easy for someone like Itachi.

It’s weird because only three Pein’s were caught by the toad song genjutsu instead of all of them (or Nagato himself). Seems like Oda treats each Pein as a viable person instead of a collective for genjutsu.

A strong enough Sharingan can oppose Tsukuyomi, and forget a Rinnegan—which is two levels ahead of a strong Sharingan. If it weren't for plot BS, Nagato would be unbeatable for anyone below Hashirama and EMS Madara.

This really isn’t the case.

Spoiler

I know this fight was staged but the validity of the statement stands (and has been repeated a few times in the series). Pein’s ocular abilities would need to wholly outclass Itachi’s to ignore his genjutsu.

And I don’t think his mastery of the rinnegan > Itachi’s mastery of the sharingan

 

[MonsterKaido]

Tsukuyomi is overkill tbh, even regular Genjutsu suffices.

Regular genjutsu shouldn't be a problem as paths can help other paths by disrupting chakra flow like Sakura and chiyo did with Naruto.

 

[NAMELESS]

Amatersu gets absorbed by pretha path. Don't think totsuka blade is landing. Nagato had issues with his leg which was cited as a reason why he got caught iirc.

But can Pain defend all 6 paths from Amaterasu? Deva path can push that stuff far away. So at least 4 paths can defend themselves,what about the other 4? Itachi can use Amaterasu as an aoe attack.

 

[SkySanji]

It’s weird because only three Pein’s were caught by the toad song genjutsu instead of all of them (or Nagato himself). Seems like Oda treats each Pein as a viable person instead of a collective for genjutsu.

Do we actually know that to be the case though? Jiraiya and the toads didn't know there were other Pain's at this point, so they would've just stopped the Genjutsu after killing the first three.

Also, the Pain's share eyesight and the toad's Genjutsu is auditory whereas Itachi's is visual.

 

[NAMELESS]

Do we actually know that to be the case though? Jiraiya and the toads didn't know there were other Pain's at this point, so they would've just stopped the Genjutsu after killing the first three.

Also, the Pain's share eyesight and the toad's Genjutsu is auditory whereas Itachi's is visual.

Exactly,for all we know,the others could have been stunned wherever they were hiding. Totsuka blade and Yata mirror are big wild cards too. Itachi is smart as fuck too,he dealt with the shared vision with fucking Kunai when fighting prime Edo Nagato.

 

[MonsterKaido]

But can Pain defend all 6 paths from Amaterasu? Deva path can push that stuff far away. So at least 4 paths can defend themselves,what about the other 4? Itachi can use Amaterasu as an aoe attack.

I don't see why not. Even then pain can use big summonings to block amatersu.

 

[NAMELESS]

I don't see why not. Even then pain can use big summonings to block amatersu.

You mean waste the summoning,right?LOL i wouldn't call using them as a shield as properly blocking. Itachi can use Amaterasu more then once. Also,Itachi was spying on the akatsuki,pretty sure he had intel on Pain's ability and rinnegan. He probably had a plan to deal with him. I doubt the way he dealt with Edo Nagato was on the fly,it looked to me he knew how to counter the rinnegan.

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2024

How many paths does Itachi kill with Taijutsu,shuriken jutsu and basic genjutsu alone?

 

[Gol D. Roger]

This really isn’t the case.

Spoiler

I know this fight was staged but the validity of the statement stands (and has been repeated a few times in the series). Pein’s ocular abilities would need to wholly outclass Itachi’s to ignore his genjutsu.

And I don’t think his mastery of the rinnegan > Itachi’s mastery of the sharingan

The comparison stands when they're put on the same level field i.e., if we're talking about two people having the same ocular powers, the guy with better skill generally excels. But there are limits to how far skill alone can take you, which was established during Itachi vs Kakashi. While it's true Itachi's usage of Sharingan far exceeds Nagato's Rinnegan mastery, the difference b/w the two abilities is too big for Itachi's skill to make a difference.

 

[NAMELESS]

The comparison stands when they're put on the same level field i.e., if we're talking about two people having the same ocular powers, the guy with better skill generally excels. But there are limits to how far skill alone can take you, which was established during Itachi vs Kakashi. While it's true Itachi's usage of Sharingan far exceeds Nagato's Rinnegan mastery, the difference b/w the two abilities is too big for Itachi's skill to make a difference.

Rinnegan doesn't produce any genjutsu,even Madara had to switch to the sharigan to use genjutsu. The mutiple pains can take each other out from genjutsu by messing with their chackras,but if they are not fast enough to do so,Itachi is killing whoever fall on his genjutsu.

 

[SkySanji]

The comparison stands when they're put on the same level field i.e., if we're talking about two people having the same ocular powers, the guy with better skill generally excels. But there are limits to how far skill alone can take you, which was established during Itachi vs Kakashi. While it's true Itachi's usage of Sharingan far exceeds Nagato's Rinnegan mastery, the difference b/w the two abilities is too big for Itachi's skill to make a difference.

The Rinnegan isn't just an upgrade to the Sharingan though...it's a completely different dojutsu unlike the Mangekyo which is a literal upgrade, we've seen that Sharingan users have to specifically downgrade their Rinnegan to use certain techniques and Nagato's Rinnegan isn't even his so it's automatically inferior by default.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Rinnegan doesn't produce any genjutsu,even Madara had to switch to the sharigan to use genjutsu. The mutiple pains can take each other out from genjutsu by messing with their chackras,but if they are not fast enough to do so,Itachi is killing whoever fall on his genjutsu.

Infinite Tsukiyomi is a Rinnegan genjutsu and the only thing that can oppose it is another Rinnegan. Granted Sasuke's Rinnegan is more advanced than Nagato's—but so is Rinnegan compared to a MS.

 

[NAMELESS]

Infinite Tsukiyomi is a Rinnegan genjutsu and the only thing that can oppose it is another Rinnegan. Granted Sasuke's Rinnegan is more advanced than Nagato's—but so is Rinnegan compared to a MS.

Sage Madara could probably use all the justsus without the need to switch. Nagato had no tsukuyomi and Jiraya caught him in a powerfull genjutsu too.