Versus Battle Is Pain vs Itachi a debate?

[TheAncientCenturion]

Do we actually know that to be the case though? Jiraiya and the toads didn't know there were other Pain's at this point, so they would've just stopped the Genjutsu after killing the first three.

Also, the Pain's share eyesight and the toad's Genjutsu is auditory whereas Itachi's is visual.

this would imply that each Pein is counted as a distinct entity otherwise Nagato himself would be there for hearing it.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

The comparison stands when they're put on the same level field i.e., if we're talking about two people having the same ocular powers, the guy with better skill generally excels. But there are limits to how far skill alone can take you, which was established during Itachi vs Kakashi. While it's true Itachi's usage of Sharingan far exceeds Nagato's Rinnegan mastery, the difference b/w the two abilities is too big for Itachi's skill to make a difference.

I’m not sure the manga supports this. Mastery and skill > raw ability is a recurring motif. And it doesn’t help that Nagato has virtually zero genjutsu feats himself.

You can make excellent cases for Peins being better suited to fight genjutsu than Nagato himself, due to the fact Nagato constantly sends chakra to them and he changes the frequency of his chakra to an extent that sensors can’t detect him.

But I don’t see the rinnegan giving Nagato auto immunity to genjutsu.

 

[soheilhazrat]

A strong enough Sharingan can oppose Tsukuyomi, and forget a Rinnegan—which is two levels ahead of a strong Sharingan. If it weren't for plot BS, Nagato would be unbeatable for anyone below Hashirama and EMS Madara.

Tbf he was working with them. And kabuto isnt as good as nagato himself in using his body

 

[NAMELESS]

Question:If Amaterasu turns a path into dust,can it be resurrected?

 

[Gol D. Roger]

The Rinnegan isn't just an upgrade to the Sharingan though...it's a completely different dojutsu unlike the Mangekyo which is a literal upgrade, we've seen that Sharingan users have to specifically downgrade their Rinnegan to use certain techniques and Nagato's Rinnegan isn't even his so it's automatically inferior by default.

Even if it isn't in the same sense as MS and Sharingan, Rinnegan is still Sharinga's upgrade, and it being a different Dojutsu doesn't really refute the fact that it's a superior ocular power that can oppose the inferior ability. While it's true it can't replicate Sharingan's applications, opposing genjutsu isn't one of those.

I’m not sure the manga supports this. Mastery and skill > raw ability is a recurring motif. And it doesn’t help that Nagato has virtually zero genjutsu feats himself.
You can make excellent cases for Peins being better suited to fight genjutsu than Nagato himself, due to the fact Nagato constantly sends chakra to them and he changes the frequency of his chakra to an extent that sensors can’t detect him.
But I don’t see the rinnegan giving Nagato auto immunity to genjutsu.

It's not like Nagato's master is 0 or something. He's still decent even if he's not among the best and he has the overwhelming advantage of having a far superior Dojutsu. I mean, look at Obito, he's nowhere near the genius that Itachi is, but give him Hashirama juice, he controls Kyubi and a perfect Jin—something even Itachi probably can't manage.

 

[soheilhazrat]

Question:If Amaterasu turns a path into dust,can it be resurrected?

Dont think so

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Tbf he was working with them. And kabuto isnt as good as nagato himself in using his body

And still took 3 people of Itachi's caliber to take him out, so there's noway Itachi alone is doing jack to him even if it's Pain.

 

[soheilhazrat]

And still took 3 people of Itachi's caliber to take him out, so there's noway Itachi alone is doing jack to him even if it's Pain.

Yeah "Healthy itachi" is just headcanon

we dont have such a character, both pain and alive itachi have nerfs in body
Pain wins the Battle.

 

[NAMELESS]

And still took 3 people of Itachi's caliber to take him out, so there's noway Itachi alone is doing jack to him even if it's Pain.

That was prime Edo Nagato. Not Pain.

 

[soheilhazrat]

That was prime Edo Nagato.Not Pain.

Alive itachi isnt "Prime" as well
He has ninja aids
Two amaterasu and one tsukiyomi will have blud coughing his entire blood up

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Yeah "Healthy itachi" is just headcanon

we dont have such a character, both pain and alive itachi have nerfs in body
Pain wins the Battle.

EDO Itachi is 10X better than a healthy Itachi because he doesn't suffer from MS side effects that a healthy Itachi's still prone to.

 

[NAMELESS]

Alive itachi isnt "Prime" as well
He has ninja aids
Two amaterasu and one tsukiyomi will have blud coughing his entire blood up

Yes. Itachi is more nerfed than Nagato imo

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2024

EDO Itachi is 10X better than a healthy Itachi because he doesn't suffer from MS side effects that a healthy Itachi's still prone to.

He is,but so is Nagato lol

 

[Gol D. Roger]

That was prime Edo Nagato. Not Pain.

Pretty sure I made a distinction b/w the two in my post.

And still took 3 people of Itachi's caliber to take him out, so there's noway Itachi alone is doing jack to him even if it's Pain.

 

[SkySanji]

Even if it isn't in the same sense as MS and Sharingan, Rinnegan is still Sharinga's upgrade, and it being a different Dojutsu doesn't really refute the fact that it's a superior ocular power that can oppose the inferior ability. While it's true it can't replicate Sharingan's applications, opposing genjutsu isn't one of those.

Seeing through Genjutsu is a Sharingan application...?

It's explicitly obvious that Pain's Rinnegan inherits absolutely nothing from a Sharingan, Smoke Bombs work to hide from Pain's Rinnegan when Itachi can literally see through walls...

 

[soheilhazrat]

Yes. Itachi is more nerfed than Nagato imo

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2024

He is,but so is Nagato lol

I dont think so honestly, he can just endure shit and have shit ton of chakra since he is PURE uzumaki

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Seeing through Genjutsu is a Sharingan application...?

It's explicitly obvious that Pain's Rinnegan inherits absolutely nothing from a Sharingan, Smoke Bombs work to hide from Pain's Rinnegan when Itachi can literally see through walls...

Rinnegan has it too. That's how Sasuke opposes Madara's Infinite Tsukiyomi.

 

[NAMELESS]

I dont think so honestly, he can just endure shit and have shit ton of chakra since he is PURE uzumaki

Alive Nagato couldn't even walk,so he had to rely on the pain's gimmick. Both alive Nagato and Itachi were nerfed.

 

[SkySanji]

Rinnegan has it too. That's how Sasuke opposes Madara's Infinite Tsukiyomi.

Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't your run of the mill Rinnegan, it has tomoe and explicitly allows him to use his Sharingan abilities.

Why are you comparing Pain's budget Rinnegan to this? It makes no sense...we clearly see in the manga that Pain can't do anything Sharingan related.

 

[NAMELESS]

Rinnegan has it too. That's how Sasuke opposes Madara's Infinite Tsukiyomi.

Didn't the Susanoo block that jutsu?

 

[soheilhazrat]

Alive Nagato couldn't even walk,so he had to rely on the pain's gimmick. Both alive Nagato and Itachi were nerfed.

Well nagato himself yeah but he has path's of pain