Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1104 Spoilers Discussion

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Our discussion has little to do with Kuma's morals being objectively good or nor, but solely whether or not a story and its characters can be judged without bias, him saying no, and me saying yes. Though I do agree that seeing Kuma as a morally good character is subjective, whether or not the creator of the character believe it is/isn't, the world and its society seeing it as so or not, and the character themselves believing one way or another isn't as that would simply be the fact of the matter.
I mean yes there are aspects of a story that are objectively judgable but there are aspects that depend on how people perceive things individually as better or worse, like sentiments of charcters, their decisions, choices.

Ig its all based on each ones rationality, that's why have you have concensuses and majorities. Everyone can perceive a choice a charcter makes and come to the similar conclusions but still have differences over it.

Ultimately what and how you think of things depends on what seems reasonable to you, and that can be subjective as you may not be reasoning well or you may have moral problems with it.

If you don't mind i'd like an example to your claim that a story can be i belive holistically objectively judged or judged regardless of they logical technical elements.
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well all imma say is be ready for it, sure at the moment maybe his character doesnt need to liquify but oda can always facilitate that need now or after luffy sees it first hand with kizaru. Time will tell i guess :kayneshrug:
I cannot dismiss the possibility because i don't see it being possible now can I.
 
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Sasaki Kojirō

Which is irrelevant. Durability means nothing if you can regen
I made it clear that my point was not whether the issue was relevant or irrelevant. The emphasis was on how bad Saturn's durability is. Furthermore, let's see if Franky's attack was irrelevant, because if Saturn is spending stamina to regenerate, then in the end, it was relevant because it made Saturn consume its stamina to regenerate. So it's too early to say that.


It's like saying that all of King's attacks on Marco were irrelevant; however, later on, Marco can't regenerate anymore because he's exhausted. And the reason for that? Haha, the attacks you're calling irrelevant.
 
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So many people are misunderstanding Kizaru’s conflict.

Kizaru wants the SHs to escape with Vegapunk, but he’s not just going to throw away his duty like kuzan did. He showed from the start that he was willing to kill Vegapunk.

That is why Luffy vs Kizaru has to happen. If Kizaru betrays Saturn, he will be committing treason and he will probably get hunted by the remaining admirals/gorosei/holy knights. But if kizaru is defeated by Luffy, then vegapunk gets to escape and Kizaru doesn’t get branded a traitor.

It’s literally WCI 2.0. Saturn is the main villain, but Kizaru is Luffy’s 1v1. Saturn, like BM, has pretty mid offense(by top tier standards), but is insanely tough to take out.
Luffy vs Saturn is still happening though.
Nobody else can defeat him, and Luffy's been continuously built up to fight him.
 
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