Worsgen Crew Randomizer Tournament: Round 2 of 16. Light D Lamperouge vs GUI VI

[Light D Lamperouge]

I don't really see how my team loses here.

Shiki, who is the strongest individual per the stipulations here, is on my team and has a busted fruit like the Shadow Shadow.

With Shadow Asgard he takes Oden and Shanks' shadows and puts them into himself

Spoiler

thus immersing their stats into himself.

Both Shanks and Oden are exceptional in their physical stats.

The strongest on the other team, Kidd, couldn't even react to Shanks blitzing him across the sea

Spoiler

Shanks was also able to appear in Marineford so fast without anyone even noticing him and block Sakazuki who was mid strike

Spoiler

Oden was a freak of nature since his birth. Being able to flick his wet nurse before he was even 1 year old. Fast enough to catch two rabbits by the age of 2, obliterating a bear using a huge boulder by the age of four, fighting the entire gambling den by the age of 8, waging war with yakuza by the age of 10

Spoiler

Able to jump so high he can reach Kaido in the sky to cut him, almost finishing him off had it not been for the old hag

Spoiler

Immersing such stats into another top tier with top tier stats and already the strongest fighter here definitely ensures the victory for my team.​

 

[Herrera95]

Tier 5 Haki+Yoru+Light speed and it's over

World Killer

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

I don't really see how my team loses here.

Shiki, who is the strongest individual per the stipulations here, is on my team and has a busted fruit like the Shadow Shadow.

With Shadow Asgard he takes Oden and Shanks' shadows and puts him into himself

Spoiler

thus immersing their stats into himself.

Both Shanks and Oden are exceptional in their physical stats.

The strongest on the other team, Kidd, couldn't even react to Shanks blitzing him across the sea

Spoiler

Shanks was also able to appear in Marineford so fast without anyone even noticing him and block Sakazuki who was mid strike

Spoiler

Oden was a freak of nature since his birth. Being able to flick his wet nurse before he was even 1 year old. Fast enough to catch two rabbits by the age of 2, obliterating a bear using a huge boulder by the age of four, fighting the entire gambling den by the age of 8, waging war with yakuza by the age of 10

Spoiler

Able to jump so high he can reach Kaido in the sky to cut him, almost finishing him off had it not been for the old hag

Spoiler

Immersing such stats into another top tier with top tier stats and already the strongest fighter here definitely ensures the victory for my team.​

So you just ignored haki tier?

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

So you just ignored haki tier?

What gave you that impression?


Shiki's haki is better than Ray's and Aramaki's by a big margin. He's tied with Kidd, but that won't matter due to a devastating difference in physical stats.

For instance, Luffy who was wincing in pain from colliding with Katakuri's fists

Spoiler

overcame Katakuri's haki by immense physical strength in gear 4, and again noted that Katakuri's COA haki is immensely strong but even it is powerless against G4's strength

Spoiler

So Kidd who is tied in the haki category with Shiki can firstly not react to the speed of Shiki amped up by Oden and Shanks' stats, but even if he could, it still would not matter because Shiki's physical strength would send him flying.​

 

[Herrera95]

What gave you that impression?


Shiki's haki is better than Ray's and Aramaki's by a big margin. He's tied with Kidd, but that won't matter due to a devastating difference in physical stats.

For instance, Luffy who was wincing in pain from colliding with Katakuri's fists

Spoiler

Luffy overcame Katakuri's haki by immense physical strength in gear 4, and again noted that Katakuri's COA haki is immensely strong but even it is powerless against G4's strength

Spoiler

So Kidd who is tied in the haki category with Shiki can firstly not react to the speed of Shiki amped up by Oden and Shanks' stats, but even if he could, it still would not matter because Shiki's physical strength would send him flying.​

We have no clue of Shiki's physical stats.

What we know is that your team has 2 people without any haki while the other team has a logia. So it is over for Shanks and Oden. Assuming Haki Tier 3 gives Shiki the ability to properly use Shanks and Oden shadows without getting full of it like Moriah did with 1000 shadows (which is perfectly reasonable since even being strong shadows are only 2) yes I can see Shiki becoming way stronger because of those shadows but do we know how much stronger he gets?

For sure it is not 100% of the original user strength. Ryuuma's body makes the difference between Brook vs his shadow. The body was more relevant than the shadow. Luffy's shadow wasn't able use G2 and G3 for example so it is hardly his true strength although Oars strength alone was bigger than Luffy. So once again the body is more important than the shadow itself. Luffy took 100 shadows to do what his combination of G2 and G3 could do basically? Of course we could say those were 100 WEAK shadows but still... I don't see much change in the shadows...

Perhaps we can ignore almost all my last paragraph since I was talking about dead bodies. Comparing Moriah with 1000 Shadow... He became as strong as Oars? Maybe Nightmare Luffy? I don't see it as being too much...

So let's say Shiki gets twice strong with Oden and Shanks shadows... That would make him the stronger player on the fight but it would still be basically 1v3(Rayleigh with Logia is immune to Oden and Shanks, Aramaki with his DF could make both Oden or Shanks useless and Kid with haki is just stronger than them). Kid with gravity DF could make his team flying while fighting Shiki from distance(assuming there is no meteor calling with haki tier 3 only).

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

We have no clue of Shiki's physical stats.

He's a top tier, his stats are top tier. He doesn't need to be exceptionally gifted in those stats either. Heck his stats could be 0, but when Shanks' and Oden's are added to him, they will far surpass any of the others.

What we know is that your team has 2 people without any haki while the other team has a logia. So it is over for Shanks and Oden. Assuming Haki Tier 3 gives Shiki the ability to properly use Shanks and Oden shadows without getting full of it like Moriah did with 1000 shadows (which is perfectly reasonable since even being strong shadows are only 2) yes I can see Shiki becoming way stronger because of those shadows but do we know how much stronger he gets?

Shanks and Oden only serve in this matchup as fuel for Shiki basically. He takes their shadows into himself and they are out. Moriah was only full and lost control because he used a 1000 shadows. Two shadows, even vastly strong, should not be a difficult thing for someone with intermediate proficiency according to the chart.

For sure it is not 100% of the original user strength. Ryuuma's body makes the difference between Brook vs his shadow. The body was more relevant than the shadow. Luffy's shadow wasn't able use G2 and G3 for example so it is hardly his true strength although Oars strength alone was bigger than Luffy. So once again the body is more important than the shadow itself. Luffy took 100 shadows to do what his combination of G2 and G3 could do basically? Of course we could say those were 100 WEAK shadows but still... I don't see much change in the shadows...

Perhaps we can ignore almost all my last paragraph since I was talking about dead bodies. Comparing Moriah with 1000 Shadow... He became as strong as Oars? Maybe Nightmare Luffy? I don't see it as being too much...

It works differently for dead bodies and real bodies. Moriah was able to split an island with one punch from a 1000 shadows from fodders. That's an exponential jump in power from his usual self.

As for the comparison between Nightmare Luffy and Moriah and Oars, we're basically told Moriah is much stronger

Spoiler

So let's say Shiki gets twice strong with Oden and Shanks shadows... That would make him the stronger player on the fight but it would still be basically 1v3(Rayleigh with Logia is immune to Oden and Shanks, Aramaki with his DF could make both Oden or Shanks useless and Kid with haki is just stronger than them). Kid with gravity DF could make his team flying while fighting Shiki from distance(assuming there is no meteor calling with haki tier 3 only).

This is a 1 vs 3. But Shiki is so much stronger than the rest that it doesn't really matter. With Shanks' brain he'll figure out Kidd is the biggest threat and take him out ASAP, and then deal with Ray and Aramaki easily.



​

 

[Lord Melkor]

Depends if Shanks starts with a giant head or no lmao.

His stats should be > Old rays though. And imo Oden should go for Kidd and have Shiki deal with Ray.

Wouldn't the increased intelligence from Vegapunk's fruit be a benefit to Shanks?

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

GUI has Ryokugyu, enough said

Nah, but seriously, GUI’s team is superior. Mainly because Shanks without Haki is basically a fodder.

I think Aramaki's fruit as logia would be almost impossible for the opposite team to deal with without significant Haki mastery.

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

It will RNG again.

He should have ~ top tier base stats no? Probably less then say a top tier with two arms but still.

Oden vs Kidd: Oden wins.

Shiki vs Rayleigh: Shiki wins.

Aramaki vs Shanks: Aramaki wins but even if he does he loses to the other two.

I am not sure Oden would lose to Kidd with superior Haki and superior Devil Fruit. Fuji's fruit is very powerful, he can nuke his enemies.

Would Shiki's tier 3 Haki be enough to neutralize logia powers?

 

[Herrera95]

He's a top tier, his stats are top tier. He doesn't need to be exceptionally gifted in those stats either. Heck his stats could be 0, but when Shanks' and Oden's are added to him, they will far surpass any of the others.

He is a top tier but based on what? Not all top tiers are equal. Maybe he is a top tier because of his DF? His haki? Not necessarily his physical stats.

Shanks and Oden only serve in this matchup as fuel for Shiki basically. He takes their shadows into himself and they are out. Moriah was only full and lost control because he used a 1000 shadows. Two shadows, even vastly strong, should not be a difficult thing for someone with intermediate proficiency according to the chart.

Half-Agreed. Moriah's line (for what I remember) gives the impression he could have handled the 1000 shadows in the past versus Kaido. He probably had better stats to handle it and DF mastery that he lost after his losing battle. That's why I brought that up. But I agree that only 2 shadows should be handled with haki tier 3.

It works differently for dead bodies and real bodies. Moriah was able to split an island with one punch from a 1000 shadows from fodders. That's an exponential jump in power from his usual self.

As for the comparison between Nightmare Luffy and Moriah and Oars, we're basically told Moriah is much stronger

We never saw a dead body with more than one shadow. So maybe we better just forget dead bodies.

Moriah had 1000's bodies. Luffy with 100's I believe he could do the same or close to it just like Oars probably could. I will look for panels if I can find something to support my argument later.

And that line about shadows from the fodders doesn't say Moriah got stronger than Nightmare Luffy.

This is a 1 vs 3. But Shiki is so much stronger than the rest that it doesn't really matter. With Shanks' brain he'll figure out Kidd is the biggest threat and take him out ASAP, and then deal with Ray and Aramaki easily.

You don't need Shanks's brain to figure out Kidd is the biggest threat hahaha. People with haki can sense other people's haki so this would be obvious to anyone with haki tier 3.

You are forgetting that Kid has gravity DF and can fly. Shiki can't.

 

[Lord Melkor]

I don't really see how my team loses here.

Shiki, who is the strongest individual per the stipulations here, is on my team and has a busted fruit like the Shadow Shadow.

With Shadow Asgard he takes Oden and Shanks' shadows and puts them into himself

Spoiler

thus immersing their stats into himself.

Both Shanks and Oden are exceptional in their physical stats.

The strongest on the other team, Kidd, couldn't even react to Shanks blitzing him across the sea

Spoiler

Shanks was also able to appear in Marineford so fast without anyone even noticing him and block Sakazuki who was mid strike

Spoiler

Oden was a freak of nature since his birth. Being able to flick his wet nurse before he was even 1 year old. Fast enough to catch two rabbits by the age of 2, obliterating a bear using a huge boulder by the age of four, fighting the entire gambling den by the age of 8, waging war with yakuza by the age of 10

Spoiler

Able to jump so high he can reach Kaido in the sky to cut him, almost finishing him off had it not been for the old hag

Spoiler

Immersing such stats into another top tier with top tier stats and already the strongest fighter here definitely ensures the victory for my team.​

For startes, I do not think user of Kage fruit can that easily steal shadows of living people. Moria was taking them from his own zombies.

 

[Herrera95]

Wouldn't the increased intelligence from Vegapunk's fruit be a benefit to Shanks?

Vegapunk's DF stores knowledges doesn't give you intelligence. Vegapunk is a genius by birth.

I think Aramaki's fruit as logia would be almost impossible for the opposite team to deal with without significant Haki mastery.

Exactly he is forgetting this. Haki 3 gives you ability to harm him but look how Scabbards were useless against it. Only Yamato with CoC coating made some damage.

I am not sure Oden would lose to Kidd with superior Haki and superior Devil Fruit. Fuji's fruit is very powerful, he can nuke his enemies.

Would Shiki's tier 3 Haki be enough to neutralize logia powers?

You mean you are not sure Oden would win over Kidd?

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

For startes, I do not think user of Kage fruit can that easily steal shadows of living people. Moria was taking them from his own zombies.

He has to trap them and cut their shadows. We saw him doing it with LUFFY.

And since Oden and Shanks are on his team... Why not?

 

[Lord Melkor]

Vegapunk's DF stores knowledges doesn't give you intelligence. Vegapunk is a genius by birth.


Exactly he is forgetting this. Haki 3 gives you ability to harm him but look how Scabbards were useless against it. Only Yamato with CoC coating made some damage.


You mean you are not sure Oden would win over Kidd?

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

He has to trap them and cut their shadows. We saw him doing it with LUFFY.

And since Oden and Shanks are on his team... Why not?

Ah he wants to use it on this team? I missed it.

This is interesting strategy, not sure if this is enough to change the tides. Did @GUI VI commented on this idea?

 

[Herrera95]

Ah he wants to use it on this team? I missed it.

This is interesting strategy, not sure if this is enough to change the tides. Did @GUI VI commented on this idea?

It is pretty obvious and yes he did while replying to me.

He wants to use the useless members of his team shadows into the one who has haki to make a super soldier and have him handling all other 3 guys alone.

Since Shanks and Oden without haki doesn't have chance against Kid, Rayleigh and still loses to Aramaki. Their shadows at least would be usefull to Shiki to overpower anyone on the other team.

So to me the battle resumed into a 3v1.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

He is a top tier but based on what? Not all top tiers are equal. Maybe he is a top tier because of his DF? His haki? Not necessarily his physical stats.

Not all top tiers are equal but they need to have top tier stats all around. Merely having an overpowered devil fruit, or strong haki would not be enough to qualify him as a top tier. There are many high tiers with great devil fruits or strong haki, like Marco or Katakuri, or someone like King, but they are still not top tier. We can infer that Shiki, as a top tier, still has top tier stats. This is a man that was said to be equal to Roger

Spoiler

Also, like I said, not that it matters much, because he will have Shanks and Oden's stats added to his.

Moriah's line (for what I remember) gives the impression he could have handled the 1000 shadows in the past versus Kaido. He probably had better stats to handle it and DF mastery that he lost after his losing battle.

I don't remember that. It was pointed out however that even Moriah could not control 1000 Shadows just like that and that it would destroy him

Spoiler

We never saw a dead body with more than one shadow. So maybe we better just forget dead bodies.

I mean the jump in power is exponential. With a dead body it would be worse because the body would decay and lose power.

And that line about shadows from the fodders doesn't say Moriah got stronger than Nightmare Luffy.

That's the implication of it.

You don't need Shanks's brain to figure out Kidd is the biggest threat hahaha. People with haki can sense other people's haki so this would be obvious to anyone with haki tier 3.

You are forgetting that Kid has gravity DF and can fly. Shiki can't.

For safe measures. It won't matter because Kidd can't react to Shanks jumping an entire coast away, let alone someone with Shanks + Oden + his own stats. He gets blitzed and Shiki mauls the no haki scrubs after that.

For startes, I do not think user of Kage fruit can that easily steal shadows of living people. Moria was taking them from his own zombies.

He did it in Thriller Bark. Plus they are on the same team. They'll happily relinquish the possession of their shadows to Shiki to win.​

 

[Fujishiro]

@Herrera95 why do you think Kidd with armament hardening is stronger then Oden?

Queen probably had tier 3 Haki and got folded by a hakiless Big mom.

Wouldn't the increased intelligence from Vegapunk's fruit be a benefit to Shanks?

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

I think Aramaki's fruit as logia would be almost impossible for the opposite team to deal with without significant Haki mastery.

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

I am not sure Oden would lose to Kidd with superior Haki and superior Devil Fruit. Fuji's fruit is very powerful, he can nuke his enemies.

Would Shiki's tier 3 Haki be enough to neutralize logia powers?

How would increased intellect help Shanks?

Shiki easily deals with Rayleigh and his plant fruit.

Tier 3 Haki means haki hardening. Big Mom mollywhopped Queen while hakiless. Sure the gravity fruit can be annoying but I dont think its enough to stop Oden. Keep in mind that Zoro could overpower fujis( a way stronger character and proficient user of the fruit then Kidd) gravity. As for meteors they are easy to dodge and or just cut for a swordsman like Oden if even Doffy could do it.

Keep in mind that they are on Zou so wanton meteor spam isnt a good idea.

You only need basic haki to touch Logias so he can.

 

[Herrera95]

Not all top tiers are equal but they need to have top tier stats all around. Merely having an overpowered devil fruit, or strong haki would not be enough to qualify him as a top tier. There are many high tiers with great devil fruits or strong haki, like Marco or Katakuri, or someone like King, but they are still not top tier. We can infer that Shiki, as a top tier, still has top tier stats. This is a man that was said to be equal to Roger

Spoiler

Also, like I said, not that it matters much, because he will have Shanks and Oden's stats added to his.

Dude... First of all whatever that source is it's not cannon. Only manga is cannon. Second, Luffy doesn't have any "top tier" status like Kaido, Big Mom, Oden or Whitebeard had. He just have DF and Haki.

So what I said sustains. We only know about Oden having what you call top tier stats. Even Shanks we don't know. As far we know Shanks is similar to Luffy. He has haki but not top tier stats.

I don't remember that. It was pointed out however that even Moriah could not control 1000 Shadows just like that and that it would destroy him

I will have to look that up. Maybe it was headcannon discussing with other fans.

I mean the jump in power is exponential. With a dead body it would be worse because the body would decay and lose power.

That's says about living body vs dead body but not about the exponential growth or even if a dead body could sustain more than one shadow.

For safe measures. It won't matter because Kidd can't react to Shanks jumping an entire coast away, let alone someone with Shanks + Oden + his own stats. He gets blitzed and Shiki mauls the no haki scrubs after that.

Headcannon. Kid was focusing on Shanks's fleet instead of Shanks. It is way different situation. The shadows is not a simple add math. Is not like Shiki speed + Oden speed + Shanks speed. Doesn't work like that.

 

[Fujishiro]

This a path to victory for team 1:

Oden vs Kidd, Oden wins with zero haki because Kidd only knows basic haki hardening and his proficiency with his fruit isnt high so his crushes should be able to be overpowered.

Also he cant spam meteors because they are on Zou

Tier 3 Haki Shiki washes Tier 1 Haki Rayleigh

And then they finish off Aramaki.

Exactly he is forgetting this. Haki 3 gives you ability to harm him but look how Scabbards were useless against it. Only Yamato with CoC coating made some damage.

You forget that thats an Aramaki who is highly proficient with his fruit. Rayleigh is used to be a swordsman. And his devil fruit proficiency is 0 because he is tier 1.

 

[Herrera95]

@Herrera95 why do you think Kidd with armament hardening is stronger then Oden?

Queen probably had tier 3 Haki and got folded by a hakiless Big mom.

Good point. I'm being biased of assuming haki makes you stronger than abnormous physical trait. But I don't see Oden being that guy. He isn't praised for his raw strength but for his haki. He is not Big Mom.

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

You forget that thats an Aramaki who is highly proficient with his fruit. Rayleigh is used to be a swordsman. And his devil fruit proficiency is 0 because he is tier 1.

He is a logia he doesn't need to know anything to be intangible. Just look at Sabo right when he got his Mera DF. My point is that Rayleigh enough take cares of the ones without haki on the other team.

 

[Fujishiro]

Good point. I'm being biased of assuming haki makes you stronger than abnormous physical trait. But I don't see Oden being that guy. He isn't praised for his raw strength but for his haki. He is not Big Mom.

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2024

Bro he was praised for being a freak of nature just like her, you do realize he single handedly fought a war against the Yakuza ( who surely know Ryou and COA)?

He is a logia he doesn't need to know anything to be intangible. Just look at Sabo right when he got his Mera DF. My point is that Rayleigh enough take cares of the ones without haki on the other team.

There are levels to logia mastery surely? COA makes you tangible, put him against Shiki and he goes down relatively quickly.

Oden can deal with Kidd, it would be like this:

And all Shanks needs to do is to stall for a bit while Shiki finishes Rayleigh off, joins Oden if he didnt win already. Beat down Kidd and mop up Tier 1 Haki Aramaki.​

 

[Herrera95]

Bro he was praised for being a freak of nature just like her, you do realize he single handedly fought a war against the Yakuza ( who surely know Ryou and COA)?

We only know about Hyogoro knowing Haki. No one else from Yakuza. And the Big Mom was way more hyped than him as a freak of nature.

We know of Oden beating adults as a kid. That's pretty much what Luffy, Ace, Sabo did. Kuina was doing this too(not saying that Oden could have died to stairs though). But he isn't even near Big Mom's level that was humiliating fucking Giants on her young age. Kid Mom feats are on the level of Seraphims.

There are levels to logia mastery surely? COA makes you tangible, put him against Shiki and he goes down relatively quickly.

Oden can deal with Kidd, it would be like this:

And all Shanks needs to do is to stall for a bit while Shiki finishes Rayleigh off, joins Oden if he didnt win already. Beat down Kidd and mop up Tier 1 Haki Aramaki.

Zoro used haki dude. His sword is black.

You talk about Oden and Shanks stats but not Rayleigh that keep up with Kizaru speed? And you saying Rayleigh would go down quickly by Shiki?

 

[Fujishiro]

We only know about Hyogoro knowing Haki. No one else from Yakuza. And the Big Mom was way more hyped than him as a freak of nature.

Haki is widely known in the land of Wano, heck the haki flow that Luffy wanted to learn is something thats know in Wano as Ryou. Amazon Lilly women knew and used haki and you wanna tell me that the samurai in a land where Ryou i widely known as a concept dont have haki? Come on bro, this isnt a good argument to make.

We know of Oden beating adults as a kid. That's pretty much what Luffy, Ace, Sabo did. Kuina was doing this too(not saying that Oden could have died to stairs though). But he isn't even near Big Mom's level that was humiliating fucking Giants on her young age. Kid Mom feats are on the level of Seraphims.

Ace and Sabo and Luffy were beating up east blue fodder that had no Haki. We're talking about samurai of wano here, they know haki.

Zoro used haki dude. His sword is black.

And Zoro isnt as physically gifted as Oden.

You talk about Oden and Shanks stats but not Rayleigh that keep up with Kizaru speed? And you saying Rayleigh would go down quickly by Shiki?

Rays physical stats were never hyped up like Oden, I saw you use that exact argument against @Light D Lamperouge to discredit Shanks having top tier stats.​

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Dude... First of all whatever that source is it's not cannon. Only manga is cannon. Second, Luffy doesn't have any "top tier" status like Kaido, Big Mom, Oden or Whitebeard had. He just have DF and Haki.

All the supplementary material is canon according to Oda himself

Spoiler

Luffy is a different case. He enters specific forms that boost his preexisting stats further.

So what I said sustains. We only know about Oden having what you call top tier stats. Even Shanks we don't know. As far we know Shanks is similar to Luffy. He has haki but not top tier stats.

It's basic inference. Luffy boosts his stats via his forms. Shanks could have the strongest haki, but if his stats aren't up to the level, he would not be a top tier.


Not like it matters for the nth time because they are all added up.

I will have to look that up. Maybe it was headcannon discussing with other fans.

Alright.

That's says about living body vs dead body but not about the exponential growth or even if a dead body could sustain more than one shadow.

Well yeah because my point is that a living body would be better lol.

Headcannon. Kid was focusing on Shanks's fleet instead of Shanks. It is way different situation. The shadows is not a simple add math. Is not like Shiki speed + Oden speed + Shanks speed. Doesn't work like that.

Kidd couldn't react to Shanks at all lol. Shanks leaped from the coast and Kidd could do nothing about it. Heck Killer showed better reactions to it than Kidd. That's precisely what it does. Why do you think Luffy got so strong, and Moriah got so strong? Because the stats added up.



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