General & Others In Chinese Mythology, Luffy represents the Tiger.

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Werent you saying momo was gonna age in another thread ? What happened ?

I did, and he could. But that's a hypothetical situation at the moment. But if it does happen, or if Momonosuke somehow does manage to avenge his father and dispatch of Orochi even in his current state, then I will be the first person to hop on the Zoro will cut Kaido bandwagon.

But until that happens, Orochi is the Dragon I see Zoro slaying.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

I did, and he could. But that's a hypothetical situation at the moment. But if it does happen, or if Momonosuke somehow does manage to avenge his father and dispatch of Orochi even in his current state, then I will be the first person to hop on the Zoro will cut Kaido bandwagon.

But until that happens, Orochi is the Dragon I see Zoro slaying.

So you are on board that the slay of orochi is comparable to what give Ryuma his current fame?


Yes or no please don't put make up on the answer if can.
(I'm not on board of Zoro killing Kaido but he will do something big).

 

[Albino 👑]

Only thing that's gonna make the people of wano comparing zoro and ryuma is finding out hes a descendant oh or makin his sword black

Providing backup with other characters while luffy beats kaidos ass aint gonna help with the ryuma or even Oden stuff

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Only thing that's gonna make the people of wano comparing zoro and ryuma is finding out hes a descendant oh or makin his sword black

Providing backup with other characters while luffy beats kaidos ass aint gonna help with the ryuma or even Oden stuff

Replicating or doing a better cut than Oden is enough tho.

Descendance is quite like a moot point...Ryuma died centuries ago.
His sword black? Well Tengu was not surprised of those and he's a blacksmith.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

And that is acomplished in one single attack my dude.



Is not even something to discuss about .

Unless you have the idea that it will a challenge at any lvl or it will take time.

If so then we already see what is your ulterior motives...

Yeah, sorry I have a hard time believing Oda is doing all this build up with Zoro and Orochi, and zero build up to a confrontation with Kaido, only to have Zoro given a reason to ignore Orochi and go after Kaido after almost 80 chapters of Wano.

You guys are completely ignoring everything Zoro has stated, and the connection between of the Kozuki Clan and the Kurozumi Clan, all because Kaido is the cooler dragon. Orochi has regenerating heads. That in and of itself can give Zoro a challenge, as was the same with the Pica fight. His issue wasn't that he couldn't cut the Golem, his issue was that he couldn't locate Pica at first. It seems like Oda is past the point of giving Zoro challenges of what he can cut that is hard, and more so moving into the direction of what he can cut that is tricky, and Orochi is the perfect candidate for that with his ability to regenerate his heads.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Yet, he has Dragon heads, and not snake heads. Weird.

You respond to me with your headcanmon. Literally says snake fruit

 

[Albino 👑]

Replicating or doing a better cut than Oden is enough tho.

Not really when oden by himself vs kaido was an actual fight back in the day
And luffys gonna be the main dude beats on kaido while zoro might not even be the only person playing back up assuming he helps

Doubt the people are gonna see luffy beat kaido and think zoro is the next ryuma because he was able to hurt him once (with help)
Like luffy is gonna be the hero of wano and one to take out kaido

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

You respond to me with your headcanmon. Literally says snake fruit

And all the Dinosaurs in the series say "Dragon Fruit". yet they are clearly Dinosaurs. Not to mention a snake is a serpent, as is a Dragon.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Yeah, sorry I have a hard time believing Oda is doing all this build up with Zoro and Orochi, and zero build up to a confrontation with Kaido, only to have Zoro given a reason to ignore Orochi and go after Kaido after almost 80 chapters of Wano.

You guys are completely ignoring everything Zoro has stated, and the connection between of the Kozuki Clan and the Kurozumi Clan, all because Kaido is the cooler dragon. Orochi has regenerating heads. That in and of itself can give Zoro a challenge, as was the same with the Pica fight. His issue wasn't that he couldn't cut the Golem, his issue was that he couldn't locate Pica at first. It seems like Oda is past the point of giving Zoro challenges of what he can cut that is hard, and more so moving into the direction of what he can cut that is tricky, and Orochi is the perfect candidate for that with his ability to regenerate his heads.

Did my answer ignored Orochi?

I just said its not challenge whatsoever you giving Orochi imaginary abilities is not an argument till we see it.

What do we have in panels is an Orochi saying he will die ....due the Ronin.

Btw the regenerating heads are from the hydra do some research and you will see that none jap folklore mention head regeneration and orochis.


"It seems like Oda is past the point of giving Zoro challenges of what he can cut"

Not at all , that only be said he Oda portrays him cutting the strongest material in the world or the toughest being.

And if believe so then you must agree that current Zoro can already cut Kaido ...
( Was not a great answer from your part but I let it pass).

 

[HA001]

Wait how did Zoro appear in this thread

Since the op made a thread on him. Can you not read

 

[Fallen Prince]

I get the feeling none of strawhat can kill anyone.

Roger killed squardos pirates just because they mocked his crew the man was beast.

Almost every yonko commited henious crime to be on top. Will stawhat do something that is beyond their vision ?

Luffy is literally like saint among the worst generation pirates , luffy cannot just defeat kaido but need to finish off kaido. I am not sure how oda will do it ?

 

[HA001]

I get the feeling none of strawhat can kill anyone.

Roger killed squardos pirates just because they mocked his crew the man was beast.

Zoro opened the arc killing someone.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Not really when oden by himself vs kaido was an actual fight back in the day
And luffys gonna be the main dude beats on kaido while zoro might not even be the only person playing back up assuming he helps

Doubt the people are gonna see luffy beat kaido and think zoro is the next ryuma because he was able to hurt him once (with help)
Like luffy is gonna be the hero of wano and one to take out kaido

I think I said it will be big...

If my personal idea is to diminish anything Zoro does or will do then I can reach your same conclusion.

I believe Zoro will be the hero in Wano at some lvl tbh.

Post automatically merged: Jul 2, 2020

I get the feeling none of strawhat can kill anyone.

Roger killed squardos pirates just because they mocked his crew the man was beast.

He was wanted in Wano by the name of the magistrate manslayer ...

 

[Albino 👑]

I think I said it will be big...

If my personal idea is to diminish anything Zoro does or will do then I can reach your same conclusion.

I believe Zoro will be the hero in Wano at some lvl tbh.

Post automatically merged: Jul 2, 2020

He was wanted in Wano by the name of the magistrate manslayer ...

Zoro can be considered a hero for taking down orochi tbh
Like orochi needs to down just as much as kaido and its been stated multiple times. Orochi himself might not be strong enough (itd be cool if he was) but orochi doesn't have to be the only person zoro defeats.

Orochi is literally kaidos partner

Imo its probably his fault kaidos even hear in the first place

If we all learn about zoro's ties to wano and he gets a black blade this arc itd be an actual reason they have to compare him to ryuma

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Did my answer ignored Orochi?

I just said its not challenge whatsoever you giving Orochi imaginary abilities is not an argument till we see it.

Btw the regenerating heads are from the hydra do some research and you will see that none jap folklore mention head regeneration and orochis.


"It seems like Oda is past the point of giving Zoro challenges of what he can cut"

Not at all , that only be said he Oda portrays him cutting the strongest material in the world or the toughest being.

Yeah, I was mistaken with the Hydra. But as a mythical Zoan, I feel like Oda will give him some sort of special ability, as he has done with other Mythical Zoans.

And Oda has shied away with giving Zoro difficult challenges in terms of cutting things that are hard. It's been more so tricky opponents for him since the timeskip, rather than opponents hard to cut. His first opponent in the New World was a poison user. His next opponent was a Logia, which Oda showcased his ability to cut. His opponent after that was Pica who was a master of hide and seek. The hardness of the golem was not an issue for Zoro. Zoro has expressed interest in wanting to learn how to cut fire. These are all scenarios that don't require Zoro needing to cut something hard.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Zoro can be considered a hero for taking down orochi tbh
Like orochi needs to down just as much as kaido and its been stated multiple times. Orochi himself might not be strong enough (itd be cool if he was) but orochi doesn't have to be the only person zoro defeats.

Orochi is literally kaidos partner

Imo its probably his fault kaidos even hear in the first place

If we all learn about zoro's ties to wano and he gets a black blade this arc itd be an actual reason they have to compare him to ryuma

Is hard to take you any serious when you suggest Orochi defeat Is worth to make a legend to be remembered centuries.

 

[Albino 👑]

Is hard to take you any serious when you suggest Orochi defeat Is worth to make a legend to be remembered centuries.

Im not
Nothing zoros gonna do feat wise is gonna have people thinking hes as strong as oden or ryuma
Like to fans him defeating king is more meaningful than beating orochi because hes stronger. Thats not the same opinion of the people of wano. Taking down the evil corrupt shogun is definitely a way bigger deal

He can do other things tho for the people of wano to respect him and think hes the next ryuma
Like i said orochi, ancestry, and black blade are some possible obtions imo

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Yeah, I was mistaken with the Hydra. But as a mythical Zoan, I feel like Oda will give him some sort of special ability, as he has done with other Mythical Zoans.

And Oda has shied away with giving Zoro difficult challenges in terms of cutting things that are hard. It's been more so tricky opponents for him since the timeskip, rather than opponents hard to cut. His first opponent in the New World was a poison user. His next opponent was a Logia, which Oda showcased his ability to cut. His opponent after that was Pica who was a master of hide and seek. The hardness of the golem was not an issue for Zoro. Zoro has expressed interest in wanting to learn how to cut fire. These are all scenarios that don't require Zoro needing to cut something hard.

Well he can have acid I think .
Snakes have that venom after all.

Is not that Oda shied away from giving hard to to cut things for Zoro mate.
There were not simply not tough characters or materials to challenge his.. idk.. cutting power?


Why? Well the moment the author presents something hard to cut for post TS Zoro it will mean that Mihawk training only push him to this X place so it's time to grow.

It's similar to Luffy scenario with Katakuri, Rayleigh put him in X place but for Katakuri was time to grow.

None of your examples show him cutting a material or opponent tough enough to say "hey see now? Zoro can cut everything already".

Wanting to cut fire is included in his primary desire which " being able to cut everything".

Post automatically merged: Jul 2, 2020

Im not
Nothing zoros gonna do feat wise is gonna have people thinking hes as strong as oden or ryuma
Like to fans him defeating king is more meaningful than beating orochi because hes stronger. Thats not the same opinion of the people of wano. Taking down the evil corrupt shogun is definitely a way bigger deal

He can do other things tho for the people of wano to respect him and think hes the next ryuma
Like i said orochi, ancestry, and black blade are some possible obtions imo

Weak options .

I accept your view I guess.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

And all the Dinosaurs in the series say "Dragon Fruit". yet they are clearly Dinosaurs. Not to mention a snake is a serpent, as is a Dragon.

So you have no where that it says dragon for Orochi but your headcanon. Come to me when you find the panel.

 

[Xione]

Yes, I am going off the representation of how Tiger and dragon are used in most works of fiction that is drawn from the Mythology, because One Piece is a fictional story, and the characters involved fall into the category of the trope. That is how most Authors, writers, story tellers, video game creators, etc.. tend to portray the Tiger vs the Dragon concept from Chinese Mythology. Personality wise, Luffy falls under the Tiger aspect of this trope, while Zoro falls under the Dragon aspect. In this regard, we can actually say this is one of the rare occasions where there are two characters within this same trope, represented by each beast, that are on the same side. From a conflict standpoint within the series however, Kaido would be the Dragon.

No you're going based off of the statement made by a dude in an article of the various trope websites that copy pasted the same article across their 3-4 different sites. In one of the sites that actually gives the examples if you end up going through them, you'll realize the examples themselves don't follow their statement about the personality traits mentioned, only very few do. On top of that the personalities mentioned in the article by whoever wrote it for tvtropes is based on characters in few works of fictions where a Tiger vs Dragon was used, it's derivative is not the actual mythos when it comes to personality. If we're discussing actual mythos personality of the Tiger, then I'd look at the personality traits I mentioned earlier.

Luffy will never be represented by the Tiger, the monkey is reserved for him no matter the scenario. Highly doubt Oda would ever put him in a situation where he'd represent the Tiger or the Dragon. It seems like you're pretty convinced on not realizing that Luffy doesn't possess the qualities of the Dragon from the actual mythos. So you're just forcing him into a Tiger vs Dragon situation simply because you don't want Zoro being in one against Kaido lol. And even in the tvtropes list of personalities of the Tiger, Zoro fits that to the T as already pointed by few examples by myself and few other individuals.

This is just one iteration of the Mythos, out of countless. In most iterations, the Dragon Emperor is actually beloved by his people, and brings harmony and prosperity to those he rules over. Most Dragon's that are portrayed as "Evil", are actually those from the Western Hemisphere. In Eastern Asia depictions, Dragons are revered by the people.

There aren't really countless symbolic mythos of symbolism regarding the Dragon/Tiger. There are ones that have the Tiger & Dragon on their own, there's ones based on the uniting of the Tiger & Dragon together, and then of course the one being discussed here Tiger vs Dragon. In the Tiger vs Dragon mytho of symbolism, Tiger is the force that challenges the mighty Dragon from encompassing all.

Individual mythos of the Dragon, you're right that's how they're revered. And that's how they're revered in the mythos about the uniting between the Dragon & the Tiger. In a "VS" the symbolism of the Dragon is different.

And not for nothing, but the Yamato no Orochi is considered a Dragon of Eastern Origins, and Oda has done more to build up a conflict between Zoro and Orochi, than he has between Zoro and Kaido. Orochi is the one who snatched the land from the Kozuki Clan, and rules over it with the backing of Kaido. It is Orochi's actions that lead to the downfall of the Kozuki Clan, and the death of Oden. Orochi is the one who executed Yasui, and now has ordered the execution of Momonosuke, the last surviving Heir of the Kozuki Clan.

This is also a perfect setup for Zoro to be able to behead a dragon, without actually killing anyone, as we all know Oda is not a fan of having his protagonist kill anyone. The Yamato no Orochi is known for being able to regenerate it's heads. Something Oda can use to his advantage to still draw the parallels between Zoro and Ryuma, without having Zoro kill.

We are almost 80 chapters deep into Wano, with zero build up of a Zoro and Kaido confrontation, with tons of build up of a Zoro and Orochi confrontation. When is Oda going to start this Kaido/Zoro build up?

In the series Yamato no Orochi is not a Dragon. Thus he's automatically excluded. It is also false that Oda has done more to build up a conflict between Zoro and Orochi than he has between Zoro and Kaido.

Orochi is the one who snatched the land from from Kozuki clan = Nothing to do with Zoro
Orochi's actions lead to downfall of Kozuki = Nothing to do with Zoro
Death of Oden = Yup, and that same Oden considered Kaido the big threat and main problem
Killed Yasu = Yup, and that same Yasu considered Kaido the big threat and main problem
Execuetion of last surviving heir of Kozuki = Momo's own issue, not Zoro's.

What you're describing sets Orochi to be defeated by Momonosuke, who will avenge his father and reclaim the throne of the Shogun from Orochi. Which is further cemented by the fact he's inherited the sword that's related to slaying Orochi (will be coming back to this later).


Now you're saying there's more for Orochi vs Zoro than Kaido vs Zoro? I don't see how that can be true. And that there's zero build up of a Zoro and Kaido confrontation, even after all that I described in the previous post? Hmm alright let's do it in a list way.

- Inherited Ryuuma's sword who is renowned for slaying a Dragon in the capital of Wano.
- Ended up with Oden's sword which has been correlated to hurting Kaido
^^^ Ended up with swords relating two people who've fought against Dragons.

- Magazine comment of a new legend of an eastern dragon being slain possibly being born
- Trained with the sword that's been correlated directly cutting up Kaido..
- Is focused on when Yasu talks about no one being able to take Kaido's head for 20 years

As far as Oda killing Kaido or not with Zoro.. He starts the Wano arc off by having Zoro kill a dude cold-bloodily, so Zoro sending Kaido's head flying at the end, killing Kaido, wouldn't be surprising.


If you ask me, you have the guy who will slay Orochi & the guy who will slay Kaido training together in this panel, the heir of the Kozuki & the heir of the Shimotsuki:

Is Momo ready yet to weild the sword? we don't know he shrugged it off because of fear. But as the arc continues, in fact from Zou, Oda has been developing Momo to have more courage. Which he continues to showcase as the arc continues furthermore. Him picking up the sword his dad entrusted to him to slay Orochi would be the close up to his story.