Controversial Three Great Heaven Agenda

[Elder Lee Hung]

Today we’re going to look at the most impeccable group of Great Generals in all of Kingdom, Zhao’s Three Great Heavens.

The Three Great Heavens of Zhao are not the strongest generals in the manga full stop, but they are on par with the strongest generals in the manga and have had the fewest deadweight members and poor showings of any major Great General faction. There are no Great Heavens who suffered any major defeats without wracking up some massive victories to show before their eventual defeats, and no other Great General group in the manga can boast this. So let’s do this:

Old Era

Ren Pa

-Arguably the best army v army commander we’ve ever seen in the history of Kingdom, Renpa held off the two strongest members of the old Qin 6, Hakuki and Ouki, by himself for two years straight, and could’ve arguably held them indefinitely if not for the Zhao monarchy

-Has literally four Great General caliber commanders as his subordinates

-Was said to be able to beat Riboku in a headon clash by Riboku himself

-Is one of the few commanders who can truly claim to be top tier in every single aspect of warfare, including both strategy and instincts

Renpa makes a strong case for himself being the strongest General ever, and we’ve only just started this list.

Rin Shou Jou

-Was said to be an equal of Renpa despite possessing no martial ability

-His right hand man Gyou’Un was said to have slain many generals and great generals during his service to Rinshoujou, by extension showing that Rinshoujou piled up the corpses of Zhao’s enemies

-Played Ouki like a fiddle at one point

-Despite being young and without martial power, he had the charisma of a great king and his Ten Heroes literally killed themselves when he died

Really all we even needed to say about Rinshoujou was that he was Renpa’s equal. This dude’s mind was so incredible that he received visions of the future in his life lol

Chou Sha

Spoiler: History Spoilers

-Outright defeated Koshou of the old Qin 6 in a scenario Renpa thought was unwinnable

-His son and grandson are also Great Generals of Zhao, though they do not compare to big papa

Renpa was a younger 3GH when Papa Chousha educated him, but still an incredible feat from the big man.

New Era

Ri Boku

Oh Godboku, where do we begin…

-Called the strongest Great Heaven in history by Rinshoujou’s biggest fan

-Called a commander of an unprecedented level by Ouki

-Called the most dangerous man in all China by Renpa

-Had the clout to form a Coalition army

-Credited outright with the deaths of Ouki, Gekishin, and Kanki

The Three Great Heavens boast arguably the strongest Great General in the history of this manga in their ranks. His only losses are either ones where he faced an unprecedented situation (Ei Sei at Sai), or where he gets brutally kneecapped by his own state. There really has not been a situation where he’s actually been defeated in a military sense with the exception of arguably Ousen at Gyou.

Hou Ken

So here’s arguably the Three Great Heavens’ weak link, but again look at what Houken actually accomplished:

-Killed Kyou singlehandedly, slayed Duke Hyou 1v1, brutally mangled Gekishin in an overwhelming manner.

-Arguably the single best individual warrior in the history of the manga

Even the 3GH’s weakest link still boasts some incredible feats for himself. But in fairness yes he did lose to Shin and Ouki almost clapped that ass twice (even though I believe he grew stronger after Bayou but this thread isn’t about that), with Houken’s victories over the likes of Kyou and Duke Hyou, it’s pretty apparent that he absolutely belongs somewhere in the high GG tier.

Literally the “weakest” individual to ever formally hold the title of 3GH is still someone who has slain multiple high GG caliber individuals. Let that sink in.

Shi Ba Shou

The jury is still out on what exactly this guy is capable of but so far:

-Repelled Ordo with a 4:1 Numerical disadvantage

-Spooked Shiryou who was unphased by the likes of Houken and Jiaga, purely by his martial aura

-Biggest boi in all China [citation needed]

EDIT: UPDATE!
-Defeated Ousen during day one of Hango
-Slayed Akou (though Akou was severely wounded)

We will see what Shibashou is capable of in the coming chapters but so far his hype has been completely abnormal.

Detractors

The Three Great Heavens have of course not had a flawless showing.

Gekishin

-Said to be 3GH level but was defeated in humiliating fashion by Houken and Riboku

Keisha

-Not sure Keisha is really a detractor as he was never a formal 3GH and simply was a candidate, plus Keisha’s feats are solid as hell, he defeated Riboku in simulation and almost checkmated Duke Hyou

Futei

-Can I just leave his name here or? Nah in all fairness Futei is growing, he may someday in the years to come eventually reach that 3GH level. In like, years. lol

Competition

So again we have to point out some of the 3GH’s victories against the other GG factions:

Victories
-Renpa held off both Ouki and Hakuki simultaneously for two years straight

Spoiler: Chousha

-Defeated Koshou

-Riboku defeated Ouki
-Riboku defeated Gekishin (via Houken)
-Riboku defeated Kanki
-Houken slayed Duke Hyou
-Houken slayed Kyou single handedly
-Houken utterly meme’d Gekishin
-Shibashou repelled Ordo
-Shibashou defeated Ousen

Defeats
-Renpa was defeated by Mougou (featuring Ousen and Kanki)
-Riboku was defeated by Sei (some kingly bullshit)
-Riboku was defeated by Ousen (featuring the Qin monster trio, Kakukai, and Toujou)
-Houken was almost defeated by Ouki twice
-Houken was defeated by Shin

The 3GH victories are simply overwhelming, and their defeats are either at the hands of other insane commanders or by some straight up bullshit.

Overall

The Three Great Heavens are simply impeccable. The strength of the average Great Heaven is on par with the strongest of the Qin 6 and of the mighty Chu. The only possible way this group could have been more overpowered was if Earl Shi had defected to Zhao, but that would’ve made them unstoppable.

Where my Zhaogang at

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Fuego thread

I'd like to add that Gyou'un saying that he fought to "claim the heads of every single Qin 6" is also indirect confirmation that Rinshoujou and all 10 of his heroes survived multiple wars with every Qin 6

 

[Cichy]

And some people think Kouen will powercreep those guys.

History spoiler

Spoiler

Ousen will troll Kouen hard with a fort and basic psychological warfare during Chu invasion basically turning him into next Ordo. Meanwhile the same Ousen strugles to conquer Zhao.

 

[Monet]

six 6 are stronger
because they have kanki

 

[SakazOuki]

3GH is a smaller group, so you’re bound to have better quality
If Qin chose only 3 elite generals to represent it then it’d be a different story
Hakuki - Ouki - Shibasaku
Ousen - Moubu - Tou/Kanki/YTW

 

[RayanOO]

Even at the end of the manga Riboku will stay the goat

and Zhao the greatest and main foe of the manga

3GH built different

 

[MarineHQ]

This is Lee's best thread ever. Let's fucking go.

 

[𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚]

I support great heaven >= qin six > other GG agenda

Except Houken
Reebok > All btw

Post automatically merged: Feb 28, 2024

Kouen and Gakuki are also Great heaven level

 

[Rumble]

Three Great Heavens being better than Six Great Generals has never been substantiated by facts. It’s an apocryphal statement segments of the fandom have chosen to accept.

The reason why Qin had and continues to have more top tier generals is simple: it’s a country that has historically been more conducive to cultivating talent and led by better kings under whose leadership those talents could flourish.

The Ou Family alone has produced 4 out of 11 the 6GGs.

Could any such equivalent family similarly flourish in Zhao, a nation with weak kings and a thoroughly corrupt court? I highly doubt it. The Rin Family produced RSJ, but they’re obviously not equivalent.

Tou Jou had Ren Pa stripped of his rank and imprisoned many men of talent and quality. When his younger son succeeded him, anyone who supported the elder brother or Ri Boku had their entire lineages slaughtered down to the babes.

The kings of Zhao have been historically inept, weak, or both. Even in the golden age of the Warring States, hence Chouhei.

The fish rots from the head down. That is why, so long as head of state situation remains as it is, Zhao cannot emulate the successes of Qin.

The Three Great Heavens existed in spite of the kings and court, not because of it.

Meanwhile, Qin had King Sho. A man of considerable strength and talent in leadership, who had the loyalty and admiration of his generals. Qin were historically also much more merit based, believing in and prioritising results over anything else. This is something Sei has carried on as of 438, when he gave Shin the 5 year deadline to become a general.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

The Three Great Heavens existed in spite of the kings and court, not because of it.

If anything, this makes the 3GH even more exceptional, since they rose to that level in spite of their royal court, whereas the 6GG were cultivated by the court as you said. If anything this makes the 3GH look even better.

Three Great Heavens being better than Six Great Generals has never been substantiated by facts. It’s an apocryphal statement segments of the fandom have chosen to accept.

As a group they are undeniably more impressive. The Qin 6 have produced GGs on par with the 3GH but as a group the 3GH have far less negative feats.

Houken killed Kyou before he even held the rank ffs lol. Houken also killed Duke Hyou. Literally two of the 6GG were outright defeated by Houken. Riboku also defeated Ouki and Kanki. That is 4 Qin 6GG who were defeated and/or slain by 2 3GH in the manga. Lol

 

[MarineHQ]

If anything, this makes the 3GH even more exceptional, since they rose to that level in spite of their royal court, whereas the 6GG were cultivated by the court as you said. If anything this makes the 3GH look even better.



As a group they are undeniably more impressive. The Qin 6 have produced GGs on par with the 3GH but as a group the 3GH have far less negative feats.

Houken killed Kyou before he even held the rank ffs lol. Houken also killed Duke Hyou. Literally two of the 6GG were outright defeated by Houken. Riboku also defeated Ouki and Kanki. That is 4 Qin 6GG who were defeated and/or slain by 2 3GH in the manga. Lol

Make it 5 with history feats for Chousa vs Koshou since I doubt either will appear in the story at this point. Riboku and SBS will defeat Ousen and YTW and I believe after this battle there will be a last one that's potentially Riboku vs Tou ( I think @TheKnightOfTheSea said it).

So Hara may actually intend for Riboku to fight all Qin 6

 

[God Buggy]

Kouen and Gakuki

Yes dawg Military God and Conqueror of the East!!

 

[Rumble]

If anything, this makes the 3GH even more exceptional, since they rose to that level in spite of their royal court, whereas the 6GG were cultivated by the court as you said. If anything this makes the 3GH look even better.

No, because the king before Tou Jou didn't cut off his nose to spite his own face over petty grudges, and the court officials, corrupt as they are, are incentivised by greed not to interfere in military matters too much if at all. They bear their fangs at Ri Boku because he isn't one of them and he threatens them, but they've not been able interfere too much when it comes to battles and they've rarely gotten their way even when he failed, or he would've been executed long ago. Ren Pa, RSJ and Chou Sa didn't have to deal with the same problems.

Tou Jou's twisted son is smart enough to realise Ri Boku is the only reason he still sits a throne.

With the exception of Kyou, the 6GG were always going to be great, no matter the state they belonged to or king they served. The same more or less applies for the second generation, with maybe only Kan Ki being an exception due to Mou Gou taking him under his wing.

The talents Qin has cultivated are figures like the Q3, yes, but also many of the rank and file. As a matter of policy, Qin does not insulate itself from talent to protect the status quo. That is their strength as a nation, and that in turn allows those with talent to cultivate it without interference or sabotage.

As a group they are undeniably more impressive. The Qin 6 have produced GGs on par with the 3GH but as a group the 3GH have far less negative feats.

The 6GGs were far more successful than the 3GHs ever were.

This negative feat shit belongs in the One Piece section. Warfare is a messy business, and Qin were historically the most aggressive and warmongering state. Given the fact they led the league in shots taken (and shots by made) by a long shot, it also stands to reason they would have misses.

Zhao's misses are less prolific because they're not the focus on the story, and they were the vanquished, so their history meant less. All the same, they took massive Ls. Even in "can't lose" scenarios, they took Ls. Gi'an is the first W they've taken in over a DECADE.

Houken killed Kyou before he even held the rank ffs lol.

Had nothing to do with Zhao or being a 3GH.

And he died to a 5K Commander, who also shamed him years prior as a lowly 1K Commander at Sai, so if you want to play this game of negative feats, that's pretty massive one right there.

Houken also killed Duke Hyou. Literally two of the 6GG were outright defeated by Houken.

Hou Ken's only contribution was in martial ability. He was literally a glorified hitman, who then got killed by an actual leader of men.

Riboku also defeated Ouki and Kanki.

Ri Boku was outright better than Kan Ki.

He is better than Ou Ki but Hara wrote the plot to do a lot of heavy lifting for Ou Ki to lose because Hara thinks the mfer is the best guy ever. Nevertheless, Ri Boku's armies of 160K elites sustained more losses than the 100K army of mostly conscripts led by Ou Ki, who likely would've won outright if Mou Bu didn't disobey him. This matters to people that value context.

That is 4 Qin 6GG who were defeated and/or slain by 2 3GH in the manga. Lol

As stated, Kyou doesn't count as Hou Ken was neither affiliated with Zhao nor a member of their military when Kyou died. Duke Hyou wasn't a 6GG.

Zhao went without a single victory against Qin for 11 years between Bayou and Gi'an and suffered numerous, humiliating and costly losses including

• Coalition War
• Koku You - an essential doorstep to invading Zhao
• a likely future 3GH in Kei Sha
• extremely valuable GG tier assets in Gyou'un and Chou Ga Ryuu
• a 3GH and symbol of Zhao's might
• the second largest city in Zhao, Gyou
• their national equivalent to Kankoku Pass in Retsubi
• an extremely powerful stronghold and asset in Ryouyou
• Ko Chou and the Kantan elites
• the "lock and key cities" Heiyou and Bujou
• strategic stronghold of Atsuyo
• North Zhao stronghold in Roumou

And they lost about a dozen other Zhao generals at and since Bayou.

Qin has been running up the score for nearly a decade. The price they've paid for all their gains was a veritable bargain.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Ren Pa, RSJ and Chou Sa didn't have to deal with the same problems.

…Did you just say Renpa didn’t have to deal with an incompetent court

This negative feat shit belongs in the One Piece section. Warfare is a messy business, and Qin were historically the most aggressive and warmongering state. Given the fact they led the league in shots taken (and shots by made) by a long shot, it also stands to reason they would have misses.

Lmfao, an absurd argument.

For one, arguing that the Qin 6 only “missed more shots” than the Zhao 3 because they took more shots in the first place is wrong, because the Qin 6 only started missing shots when they started fighting the Zhao 3 lmfao. Kyou wasn’t defeated until she fought a future 3GH, Duke Hyou wasn’t killed until he fought Houken, Kanki and Ouki didn’t die until they fought a 3GH. It’s not like they had more losses simply because they fought more, they had more losses specifically because the Zhao 3 kept beating them lmfao.

For two, I can point to you an example of dozens of NBA players who scored more points over their careers than Michael Jordan. Yet MJ is still regarded as the GOAT because the quality of his achievements is the best of all time. Arguing the Qin 6 have better achievements because “they fought more” is like arguing Bihei is a better commander than Rinshoujou because Bihei has personally killed more men than Rinshoujou has. Abject absurdity and dishonesty.

Had nothing to do with Zhao or being a 3GH.

LMFAO. This is the funniest argument I think I’ve ever seen from you. Arguing that Houken killing Kyou doesn't make the 3GH look good because Houken didn’t technically hold the rank back then is fucking hilarious.

Nevertheless, Ri Boku's armies of 160K elites sustained more losses than the 100K army of mostly conscripts led by Ou Ki, who likely would've won outright if Mou Bu didn't disobey him.

Um, citation needed? You’re arguing the Zhao lost more lives at Bayou than the Qin did? Lol

Regardless, Duke Hyou lost 10x the men Gokei did but Duke Hyou won the war anyway. Victory is all that matters.

As stated, Kyou doesn't count as Hou Ken was neither affiliated with Zhao nor a member of their military when Kyou died, and Duke Hyou wasn't a 6GG.

Duke Hyou was confirmed to be on the 6GG level, his portrayal is relevant when talking about the power level of the 6GG as a group. And he was killed by the weakest Great Heaven.

Qin has been running up the score for nearly a decade. The price they've paid for all their gains was a veritable bargain.

Qin also hasn’t fought any 3GH in that time. So I don’t even know why you turned this into a Qin vs Zhao thing when the whole point of this thread is the 3GH themselves. Probably because you know you can’t argue the Qin 6 over the Zhao 3 so you had to change the subject.

Again the only loss an actual 3GH took to Qin was when Riboku got kneecapped by his own state at Gyou. He very well probably would have won if the Zhao court didn’t interfere.

But you will hyper focus on Shin vs Houken despite that being an outlier feat while also disregarding the 12 instances of the Zhao 3 defeating the Qin 6

 

[Bullet]

On average i'd say the 3gh are stronger but that's because there is only 3 of them while Qin has 6 so makes sense if the weaker Qin 6 are a tad bit below the GH's
If Qin were to choose 3 they would also be as strong as the 3gh
Hakuki, Ouki, Shibasaku/Duke Hyou
Moubu, Ousen, Tou
Shin, Ouhon, Mouten

 

[Daniel]

It was a flip flop between Chu & Qin for my vote but Qin's current great generals are probably the most capable out of the all of the great generals that are currently serving in their respective militaries so far.

Ou Sen being the big brain out of Qin 6 is a given at this point (at the very least comparable to Haku Ki in his prime).

Yo Tan Wa, already a physically gifted frontline general who can blitz through hordes of enemies with ease, has a leadership rating of a whopping 100. Her ability to motivate and rile up her soldiers even through desperate situations may be the best out of all of the great generals that currently serve atm.

On the flip side, Mou Bu should be the strongest general in the whole story atm but he seems to be suffering from a career setback after that humiliating defeat from Man'U (whose strength stat somehow contradicts his demonstrated feats so far). His strength at his peak during the coalition arc during the Kanmei fight as well as the rampage that happened after was truly a sight to behold though.

But since this thread should be about the Three Great Heavens though, I'll try to add in my opinions on those guys soon. Chou Sha's feat of turning a losing battle in his favour against Koshou (that Renpa thought was an unwinnable situation) places him higher on the great generals ranking and suggests that his intelligence (and maybe his leadership) rating could be on the higher end for someone of his rank.

 

[Rumble]

…Did you just say Renpa didn’t have to deal with an incompetent court

Ren Pa and RSJ were sworn brothers and the latter was a high ranking government official of great prestige and influence. Given that Ren Pa often rebuked the crown prince and the Zhao court's persisting fear of him in the present timeline, one can easily deduce that Zhao's first generation 3GH were overall far less encumbered by the Zhao court in their time.

The Zhao court has had plenty of time to entrench their power since and they know, threatened as they are by him, they have no reason to fear Ri Boku striking at them.

Lmfao, an absurd argument.

No, it's just an argument you can't rebut.

For one, arguing that the Qin 6 only “missed more shots” than the Zhao 3 because they took more shots in the first place is wrong, because the Qin 6 only started missing shots when they started fighting the Zhao 3 lmfao.

This is ahistorical. The Qin were the most prolific warmongers of the Warring States Era. They were, by far, the most aggressive, ruthless, and successful. Everyone took Ls against them, including Zhao, and for the purposes of this manga, including the 3GH. Unlike in Kingdom, in the accepted historical records, Qin were the better armed state with the greater number of troops in all but a few of their battles to conquer China. Part of what makes Li Mu's legend is that he achieved so many successes against the Qin despite being outgunned.

Kyou wasn’t defeated until she fought a future 3GH, Duke Hyou wasn’t killed until he fought Houken

You keep going about Hou Ken as if you don't know he was a 3GH in name only. The entire premise of your agenda is that the pinnacle of generalship, of which Hou Ken possessed none, stands in Zhao. It's certainly not an unreasonable argument to make, but your reliance on Hou Ken is not helping your argument.

Kanki and Ouki didn’t die until they fought a 3GH.

I've addressed this already. Even though he had no accepted historical justification for it, Hara went out of his way minimise Ou Ki's culpability for his own defeat as humanly possible. Hara made sure to make him look good by letting him go down swinging against impossible odds. This is undeniable context in any genuine discussion or citation.

It’s not like they had more losses simply because they fought more, they had more losses specifically because the Zhao 3 kept beating them lmfao.

More of your ahistorical bullshit. This is a waste of my time.

For two, I can point to you an example of dozens of NBA players who scored more points over their careers than Michael Jordan.

Would they be more efficient scorers? Would they have the same amount of scoring titles? No.

Qin won far more than they lost. They were shooting at an highly efficient clip and rarely failed to win when it mattered, as evidence by all the gains they made. The same absolutely cannot be said for Zhao. Qin aren't Jordan, they're LeBron with Jordan's success rate, i.e. even more successful.

Um, citation needed? You’re arguing the Zhao lost more lives at Bayou than the Qin did? Lol

Regardless, Duke Hyou lost 10x the men Gokei did but Duke Hyou won the war anyway. Victory is all that matters.

Crazy talk. Costly victories are unsustainable,

Zhao, a nation that already lost 400,000 military aged men, could not/cannot afford Pyrrhic victories.

Duke Hyou was confirmed to be on the 6GG level, his portrayal is relevant when talking about the power level of the 6GG as a group. And he was killed by the weakest Great Heaven.

Duke Hyou was qualified, but he didn't have the title and all the perks and responsibilities that came with it. He did not have the right to wage war freely.

By the same token of your argument, the way you dickride Gyou'un, the same can be applied to him and his loss. Arguably Chou Ga Ryuu as well as even Gyou'un followed his cue at Shukai. Ko Chou is another one. The same can be argued for Kei Sha. If you're really intent on counting those that would qualify for 6GG level - which you consider lower than 3GH - then fine, that just benefits Qin in the score box.

Qin also hasn’t fought any 3GH in that time.

Ri Boku owns the L for the Coalition War. He also owns the L for the WZI. Those are two, huge, humiliating losses for Zhao.

So I don’t even know why you turned this into a Qin vs Zhao thing when the whole point of this thread is the 3GH themselves. Probably because you know you can’t argue the Qin 6 over the Zhao 3 so you had to change the subject.

The very premise of this thread invites comparison, and everyone is making comparisons.

I'm not changing the subject, you're just upset you can't change the facts.

Again the only loss an actual 3GH took to Qin was when Riboku got kneecapped by his own state at Gyou. He very well probably would have won if the Zhao court didn’t interfere.

lmao, and Ou Ki only lost because of Mou Bu's disobedience. You're not making excuses for Ou Ki, but you are for Ri Boku? You're so transparent.

But you will hyper focus on Shin vs Houken despite that being an outlier feat while also disregarding the 12 instances of the Zhao 3 defeating the Qin 6

Hou Ken is the definition of an outlier. He's not a general, but he is 3GH, and a rarely sighted Bushin. Everything about him is outlier.

Shin had 3 cracks at Hou Ken and personally slew 5 Zhao generals (not counting Rin Ko) before he killed him, and has killed another 2 since. There is nothing outlier about Shin killing Zhao generals. At this point in the story it's a time honoured tradition since the birth of the HSU.



Hou Ken wasn't even the first Great General he killed, that was Rei Ou.

 

[Extravlad]

The 3GHs are the Admirals of Kingdom

They are unmatched,unrivaled,unbeaten

 

[Daniel]

Thoughts about Chou Sha:

Spoiler

Personal observations of the current Three Great Generals

• The current Three Great Heavens of Zhao are composed of one strategical general and two frontline generals. Right now, the members of TGH are Shibashou, Riboku, and Houken (killed by Shin not too long ago).
• We know for a fact that Riboku is a strategist who develops plans/tactics instead of a general who goes into the front lines (his intelligence rating is an indicator of this).
• Houken's martial abilities and feats directly on the battlefield itself makes him a general on the frontlines. Strength was pretty much the only selling point he had.
• Shi Ba Shou was granted entry into the Three Great Heavens, and it should be clear as day to the readers by now that his role is that of a frontline commander whose speciality is cutting down swathes of enemies. His immense physical strength and martial ability would be evidence of this. Seeing that the readers haven't seen much of his intelligence & leadership abilities that has a scene of their own (effectively managing an army of his/her own without the display of martial strength directly on the battlefield itself would indicate higher level of leadership), it's pretty much a guarantee that strength is his greatest stat here.
• Chou Sha was a member of the Three Great Heavens during the time when the Six Great Generals of Qin were waging war across the other states. As Ou Ki, Ou Kotsu, and most likely Shi Ba Saku would have been the ones to perform the role of the frontline general during those past battles back, Zhao would have needed a frontline general other than Renpa as a way to even out the matchup against Qin (as well as other Warring states).
• It's shown to readers via official character stats that Rin Shou Jou was the strategic planner and the backseat commander out of the 3GH back then. Him being a great general despite having no combat ability meant that he got to his position purely as a strategic planner (a slightly nerfed Riboku), and his leadership and intelligence rating was a clear indicator of that.
• Since the Three General Generals are composed of two frontline generals and one main strategist/planner, and as Rin Shou Jo was the strategist out of the three, Renpa and Chou Sha would have been the two frontline generals that during the previous 6GG era.

But then...

• The 3GH got stuck in a situation involving Koshou and it somehow ended up becoming so bad that even Renpa thought that the scenario was unsalvageable.
• Koshou, as someone who became a strategical general through the ability of his mind & strategical prowess, would have an intelligence rating on the higher end of the scale (out of the 6GG), similar to Haku Ki/Ousen/etc. He should have a higher intelligence rating than Renpa as he set up a situation on a battlefield that exceeded Renpa's ability to subvert it (maybe Koshou had Ouki or Oukotsu as vice general who acted as a deterrent to Renpa? No proof of this though). Chou Sha, who somehow found a way to bypass this by enacting a strategem of his own, most likely has a similar level of intellect, if not better.
  • Chou Sha's intelligence rating could be the same as Renpa's, but it could be higher.
• It's unknown why Renpa thought that the scenario that Koshou set up was considered unwinnable for him, and it seems out of character for this version of Renpa (clearly not a general that would prefer to delegate like Ousen) to come to that conclusion. But in Kingdom, strong martial abilities are worth more than gold, and Chou Sha succeed in that campaign simply because he was stronger.
  • Chou Sha's strength rating, as a frontline commander may very well have been higher than Renpa's simply because he succeeded in a mission that Renpa thought was impossible to achieve victory in.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

perfectly even poll lol