Controversial Jiaga is Underrated Part 2 (ft. Jyoukaryuu and Gakushou)
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
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Some Olympic level gymnastics going on in the OP to make the scaling work.
JKR did not fight equally with Shin. He was nearly unalived on the first clean opening Shin got
Versus Gaku Shou, Shin had just fought his ass off to create an opening for their escape. Gaku Shou remarked on it himself.
Ji Aga didn't get the best showing, but we don't have to twist facts to make up for that. It's enough to recognise the plot didn't call for him to show his best. That's all.
I think that's reading too much into how he carries himself.
JKR did not strike me as ignorant or lacking in any aspect of warfare. Not a genius by any means, but definitely someone who knows his shit. His demeanour when they cornered Kan Ki showed a more serious side to him. It's quite similar to Gai Mou and Ordo, who people take for idiots, but they're actually much sharper, much more serious individuals than they let on.
He was #2 in strength.
The only hierarchy we have of Seika is that Kan Saro and Gaku Shou are #1 and #2 respectively.
Beyond that, we only have assumptions. Gaku Shou claimed JKR's centre army was stronger than his own (likely compensated for by Fuu On), and Ji Aga's elites were equal to those in the Sou'Ou Army. If I had to guess, JKR was #3 on seniority and experience.
JKR did not fight equally with Shin. He was nearly unalived on the first clean opening Shin got
Versus Gaku Shou, Shin had just fought his ass off to create an opening for their escape. Gaku Shou remarked on it himself.
Ji Aga didn't get the best showing, but we don't have to twist facts to make up for that. It's enough to recognise the plot didn't call for him to show his best. That's all.
I think that's reading too much into how he carries himself.
JKR did not strike me as ignorant or lacking in any aspect of warfare. Not a genius by any means, but definitely someone who knows his shit. His demeanour when they cornered Kan Ki showed a more serious side to him. It's quite similar to Gai Mou and Ordo, who people take for idiots, but they're actually much sharper, much more serious individuals than they let on.
He was #2 in strength.
The only hierarchy we have of Seika is that Kan Saro and Gaku Shou are #1 and #2 respectively.
Beyond that, we only have assumptions. Gaku Shou claimed JKR's centre army was stronger than his own (likely compensated for by Fuu On), and Ji Aga's elites were equal to those in the Sou'Ou Army. If I had to guess, JKR was #3 on seniority and experience.
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from chapter 719
he's obviously no moron but i think it's clear tactics/strategy isn't something he has a particular expertise on.
Ordo's intellect is massively underrated. It being only 85 in stats is ridiculous. He showed impressive fight analysis of Renpa's defeat in Sanyou, and mountain reading is impressive.
I think Gaimou is smarter when it comes to philosophy than warfare lol, but we haven't seen much of him
Ordo's intellect is massively underrated. It being only 85 in stats is ridiculous. He showed impressive fight analysis of Renpa's defeat in Sanyou, and mountain reading is impressive.
I think Gaimou is smarter when it comes to philosophy than warfare lol, but we haven't seen much of him
That's what I was referring to. To me, that looks like he is just clearly playing along with Gaku Shou, who was going on about humiliating their opponent, not actually looking for meaningful feedback.
He's a general, you kinda have to assume he knows tactics and strategy. It's his job to know.
There's levels to it, but nobody makes it to that level of authority without knowing what to do with it.
Don't get me started on Hara's stats.
Gai Mou lives and breathes warfare. Not so much the finer details and minutia, but he's the real deal. A bona fide Great General at that. He might be more philosophically inclined, but I have no reason to doubt he knows his shit. Unimpressive LDR and INT stats aside.
He's a general, you kinda have to assume he knows tactics and strategy. It's his job to know.
There's levels to it, but nobody makes it to that level of authority without knowing what to do with it.
Don't get me started on Hara's stats.
Gai Mou lives and breathes warfare. Not so much the finer details and minutia, but he's the real deal. A bona fide Great General at that. He might be more philosophically inclined, but I have no reason to doubt he knows his shit. Unimpressive LDR and INT stats aside.
i agree. He and Jiaga are obviously no Zenou's lol.
yeah he likely does know his stuff.
i'm more inclined to believe that we'll see him "act smarter" so to speak in the future when things become more dire for Wei. I'd excuse some of his behavior against the Hi Shin unit as him messing around because it was his return to the battlefield.
yeah he likely does know his stuff.
i'm more inclined to believe that we'll see him "act smarter" so to speak in the future when things become more dire for Wei. I'd excuse some of his behavior against the Hi Shin unit as him messing around because it was his return to the battlefield.
Pretty much.
Gai Mou's actions in the Choyou Campaign amounted to him having fun. They were fresh out of prison, held the terrain and had the numbers. It probably didn't help that he thought he found a like-minded opponent in Shin, who did seem to lower his guard.
That carelessness was not based on stupidity but founded on a bedrock of confidence in his own abilities. Gai Mou didn't feel threatened by the moment or the circumstances, so it was all fun and games for him. It's been like 7 years since the Choyou Campaign though, and I'm sure GHM has been putting him to work in expanding Wei's territory.
I anticipate Gai Mou will be the strongest opponent Shin kills in a "clean" duel.
Unrelated, but still, what a fucking bummer Hara didn't keep Earl Shi alive. I wanted to see how these two were bonded, and for Wei to feel like it had a more formidable army.
Gai Mou's actions in the Choyou Campaign amounted to him having fun. They were fresh out of prison, held the terrain and had the numbers. It probably didn't help that he thought he found a like-minded opponent in Shin, who did seem to lower his guard.
That carelessness was not based on stupidity but founded on a bedrock of confidence in his own abilities. Gai Mou didn't feel threatened by the moment or the circumstances, so it was all fun and games for him. It's been like 7 years since the Choyou Campaign though, and I'm sure GHM has been putting him to work in expanding Wei's territory.
I anticipate Gai Mou will be the strongest opponent Shin kills in a "clean" duel.
Unrelated, but still, what a fucking bummer Hara didn't keep Earl Shi alive. I wanted to see how these two were bonded, and for Wei to feel like it had a more formidable army.
Good point.
Dude spent 14 years in prison for those two, and we don't even know how he felt about them or their passing. We don't even know why he and Rei Ou sided with Earl Shi against the other 3 FDs. What is up with that?
I liked the way GHM fucked over Rei Ou in the end, so I would prefer that death to have been kept the same. imo, Earl Shi should've been presumed dead but later revealed to be alive, barely holding on.
In my headcanon, he held onto some kind of good luck charm Ou Hon dropped in the first duel - a gift from his fiance - and clung onto life by fixating on Ou Hon. In my headcanon, Earl Shi would've projected himself on Ou Hon and that obsession would've willed him back to life in a sense, so the next time we'd see him, he'd be at his true full strength. (I don't like that he was a STR 96 when Ou Hon killed him, he should've been nerfed to a 94.)
Dude spent 14 years in prison for those two, and we don't even know how he felt about them or their passing. We don't even know why he and Rei Ou sided with Earl Shi against the other 3 FDs. What is up with that?
I liked the way GHM fucked over Rei Ou in the end, so I would prefer that death to have been kept the same. imo, Earl Shi should've been presumed dead but later revealed to be alive, barely holding on.
In my headcanon, he held onto some kind of good luck charm Ou Hon dropped in the first duel - a gift from his fiance - and clung onto life by fixating on Ou Hon. In my headcanon, Earl Shi would've projected himself on Ou Hon and that obsession would've willed him back to life in a sense, so the next time we'd see him, he'd be at his true full strength. (I don't like that he was a STR 96 when Ou Hon killed him, he should've been nerfed to a 94.)
I'm so disappointed that Reiou barely reacted to Earl Shi's death outside of being surprised that someone other than Tou killed him. Then again he is supposed to be cold hearted.
My guess is that Gaimou had a female companion who he lost on the battlefield, and he related to Earl Shi's grief over losing his sister. For why Reiou did, well we do know that he was with Earl Shi when he got the news about the marriage between Tairoji and the sister.
I wanted Reiou to live, or at least get more impressive feats on panel. Have him fight Tou more. He deserves a better death but not every legendary generals gets a good death I guess.
I do hope we get an extended fire dragon civil war flashback
My guess is that Gaimou had a female companion who he lost on the battlefield, and he related to Earl Shi's grief over losing his sister. For why Reiou did, well we do know that he was with Earl Shi when he got the news about the marriage between Tairoji and the sister.
I wanted Reiou to live, or at least get more impressive feats on panel. Have him fight Tou more. He deserves a better death but not every legendary generals gets a good death I guess.
I do hope we get an extended fire dragon civil war flashback
I legit thought that the Fire Dragons were going to be recurring characters and Wei's future EOS opponents when they were first introduced with all the hype Hara gave them. Ranbihaku on the other hand seemed to me like the typical one-arc expendable villain for the new gen to kill.
Then Hara killed Reio Ou and Earl Shi and left RBHK alive and I was like
Then Hara killed Reio Ou and Earl Shi and left RBHK alive and I was like
Killing them both was a mistake
You already established Wei has no one since they had to recruit Renpa and then had to leave their entire military to a teenager GHM so why kill off Earl Shi and Rei Ou just like that?
Atleast one of them should have lived
GHM doing Rei Ou like that was funny but wish Bum Shi didn't die
Maybe he could have found a reason to live or something and be an opponent down the line for Ouhon like Gaimou is for Shin.
You already established Wei has no one since they had to recruit Renpa and then had to leave their entire military to a teenager GHM so why kill off Earl Shi and Rei Ou just like that?
Atleast one of them should have lived
GHM doing Rei Ou like that was funny but wish Bum Shi didn't die
Maybe he could have found a reason to live or something and be an opponent down the line for Ouhon like Gaimou is for Shin.
Extremely formidable. A master of warfare that could quickly inflict catastrophic loss of life to his opponents if they allowed him to get the ball rolling.
Though not necessarily undefeated in his career, I believe he was very unfamiliar with losing. He was on par with Duke Hyou, who likely would've lost the battle if not for Ou Ki's intervention. His lapse in judgment in dueling instead of retreating aside, he remains one of the most dangerous minds of warfare seen to date.
Undoubtedly a 6GG/3GH tier general, superior to the likes of Ko Chou and CW era Ka Rin and Go Hou Mei.
In my headcanon, he was the founding member of the Fire Dragons, created in large part due to the influence of Shin Ryou Kun, one of the Four Lords of the Warring States that he served for a time.
Though not necessarily undefeated in his career, I believe he was very unfamiliar with losing. He was on par with Duke Hyou, who likely would've lost the battle if not for Ou Ki's intervention. His lapse in judgment in dueling instead of retreating aside, he remains one of the most dangerous minds of warfare seen to date.
Undoubtedly a 6GG/3GH tier general, superior to the likes of Ko Chou and CW era Ka Rin and Go Hou Mei.
In my headcanon, he was the founding member of the Fire Dragons, created in large part due to the influence of Shin Ryou Kun, one of the Four Lords of the Warring States that he served for a time.
I feel like Gokei is clearly the best of the Fire Dragons. My headcanon is that Reiou, Earl Shi and maybe Gaimou could have reached his ability if it wasn't for the civil war, and the other 3 would be close.
Although his vassals aren't great, his ability to massacre large amounts of enemies is pretty much almost unmatched. Ouki praised him to the high heavens, gave him far better praises than he gave the likes of Bayou Moubu.
it was also strongly implied he fought Ouki as well.
I believe he was the only Fire Dragon who was under the employ of Shinryoukun, and that's why he didn't get involved in the Civil War.
I believe in the Wei Invasion, Gouhoumei will employ powerful generals from Jia, the state Gokei was a prince of
Although his vassals aren't great, his ability to massacre large amounts of enemies is pretty much almost unmatched. Ouki praised him to the high heavens, gave him far better praises than he gave the likes of Bayou Moubu.
it was also strongly implied he fought Ouki as well.
I believe he was the only Fire Dragon who was under the employ of Shinryoukun, and that's why he didn't get involved in the Civil War.
I believe in the Wei Invasion, Gouhoumei will employ powerful generals from Jia, the state Gokei was a prince of
I have a much higher opinion of the Fire Dragons, and in my headcanon Go Kei was the wisest (and most experienced), Gai Mou the strongest, Rei Ou the most cunning and Earl Shi the most talented (equal to Q3).
The other 3 that got off-paneled ranged from Chou Sou/Rozo/Ba Nan Ji tier generals, so nothing to sneeze at.
Vassals weren't super impressive, but he did have two flat 90 hitters and just a vicious army altogether.
I wish Hara was more generous in this regard though.
Agreed. I believe Go Kei was around long enough to have faced many legends, known and forgotten, including a few of the 6GGs.
The other 3 that got off-paneled ranged from Chou Sou/Rozo/Ba Nan Ji tier generals, so nothing to sneeze at.
Vassals weren't super impressive, but he did have two flat 90 hitters and just a vicious army altogether.
I wish Hara was more generous in this regard though.
Agreed. I believe Go Kei was around long enough to have faced many legends, known and forgotten, including a few of the 6GGs.
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